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Genesis Offshore Brushless RC Twin Hull (1045mm) from HK

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Genesis Offshore Brushless RC Twin Hull (1045mm) from HK

Old 08-19-2012, 07:29 AM
  #176  
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Default RE: Genesis Offshore Brushless RC Twin Hull (1045mm) from HK

nice speed i hope to get mine going soon and i hope you get yours fixed
Old 09-05-2012, 12:14 AM
  #177  
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Default RE: Genesis Offshore Brushless RC Twin Hull (1045mm) from HK

I am soon to recieve one of these and am looking to upgrade a bunch of bits before it even hits the water. I'm looking for @70-80km/h with good temps and reliability. Flex drive is getting upgraded (OSE Motley Crew upgrade) and the rudder servo will be a high torque item (@10kg). I will be running balanced and polished props to keep vibrations down and efficiency up. But the rest of the drivetrain is a bit of a mystery:

1. I want to put in a Leopard engine, but don't know whether to go 4074, 4082 or 4092 - what is the difference in models (apart from price/length)?
2. I'm thinking1600 - 2200Kv - what difference does higher/lower rating mean?
3. 4S or 5S lipos? - I'm not overly keen to burn stuff out, but don't want to waste performance (I know it is a fine line)

NobodyFamous is running a 4092,2080Kv with Turnigy 180a esc and 4S lipos = very happy with result
F1madness is running 4074,2000kv with Swordfish 200a esc and 5S lipos = also very happy with result

I could go with either of the above setups and probably be totally happy (and I may do) but I'd like to know a bit more about how to get a good balance. Can someone(s) please share a few basic tips? Thanks.
Old 09-05-2012, 04:07 AM
  #178  
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Default RE: Genesis Offshore Brushless RC Twin Hull (1045mm) from HK

Kv stands for something that translates into RPM/volt.

So my setup 2080Kv on 4s is 14.8 x 2080 = 30,784 (nominal voltage unloaded RPM)
F1's setup is 2000Kv on 5s so 18.5 x 2000 = 37,000

Use the search and look around for the pros and cons of running high RPM

I will also answer your questions (from PM) about drive line here;
The stock drive is 4mm, and is a 2 piece design.  The 2 piece design requires you to either remove the motor or the strut after every run to re-grease the drive.  The single piece 3/16 drive is stronger, and all you have to do is loosen the collet and slide the whole thing out the back, grease and reinsert.  You can also get a much larger selection of props.

As for balanced and polished, I have not done that, but it is highly recommended.  I am ashamed to say I just buy the props and slap them on there.[:-]  I will order a balanced and sharpend one once I know what prop I will be running, or get a balancer and get cancer my self. 

I am in need of new props as I just bent my 442 with the genesis crash, and on the same day smashed my 447 & 447r all to crap on the Villain. (out drives are to floppy for 26,000 rpm with 447's)

I think the 445 is the prop for the genesis and that setup anyway.  Or maybe an M445. . . . only time and money will tell, and the little GPS!

Update on my Genesis:
I did find a "local" (1.2 hours drive to city) where I can get fibreglass supplies, so I picked up some structural putty/filler ("short strand epoxy") and have cleaned up the split.  I just need to find a good 3 hour chunk to disappear into my cave and get er' fixed.
Old 09-05-2012, 04:34 AM
  #179  
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Default RE: Genesis Offshore Brushless RC Twin Hull (1045mm) from HK

Nice job!! Thanks for the heads-up. That all makes a lot more sense now. And yeah I'll do a bot more research on the pros and cons of running high RPM.

On the propellor front HOR have a balanced/sharpened 43mm http://www.horracing.com/product_inf...roducts_id=471 - $18 with very reasonable shipping ($2). I have looked for balanced 442 and 445 props, but the best I could find was @ $40 delivered. I'm gonna try one.

Good luck with the boat repairs. Perversely it sounds like bit of fun (in a way) though I'm sure you would rather just be on the water. Anyway I'm looking forward to some updated photos. I'll bang some up of my own when some kit arrives!!
Old 09-06-2012, 04:34 AM
  #180  
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Default RE: Genesis Offshore Brushless RC Twin Hull (1045mm) from HK

Hey tebbysboy
I was running leopard 4074,2000kv and swordfish 200esc on 5s with m445 prop and it ran great i went with setup as it was in my previous saga hull which miserably []
but in  all fairness once transfered to the genesis was running strong setup and no issues and defo do it again
The mainthing  i did change was the driveline to 3 1/6 which is a must otherwise wont last long at all i just brought a 3 1/6 HOR strut with a small amount of triming to the mounting upright edges fits perfect on the original setup remove the teflon liner from original tube fill with grease and slide in the new flexi Jobdone
Im sure youll be happy with setup
To answer your question why i run the 4074 over the 4082 was they didnt do them i brought the 4074 when it was 1st released  
Old 09-06-2012, 04:52 AM
  #181  
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Default RE: Genesis Offshore Brushless RC Twin Hull (1045mm) from HK

Hey F1madness,

Thanks for the heads up. I'm defo going with the Swordfish esc now and going to go 5S. I'm still tossing up which Leopard to go with - 4082,2000Kv or 4092,2080Kv. What would you recommend, or would either be just fine?.

My only other query is whether to use an external BEC. Recommendation for the Swordfish is to use do this when running over 4S. Did you find the need to do this, or did the BEC in the Swordfish suffice? I'd be really keen to know. Thanks.
Old 09-06-2012, 04:57 AM
  #182  
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Default RE: Genesis Offshore Brushless RC Twin Hull (1045mm) from HK

I don't know about the swordfish ESC, but the T120a and T180a and T80HV all have switched BEC's so they are more eff. and generate less heat.  For me and my Gen. I am just running the ESC's BEC, but that is also at 4s only.
Old 09-06-2012, 05:23 AM
  #183  
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Default RE: Genesis Offshore Brushless RC Twin Hull (1045mm) from HK

Either motor will do youll be able spin a slightly bigger prop on the using either 1 of them motors compared to the 4074 i used 
I had no issues using the esc'c bec i even ran 6s through it in my last cat with no issues
I have read that if you run the T180/seaking 180 esc'c to use external BEC  when running 6s as they have been known to fail but not on the swordfish esc thats why i went with the swordfish in the end but they may have solved that issue now as it was some time ago  
Old 09-06-2012, 05:30 AM
  #184  
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Default RE: Genesis Offshore Brushless RC Twin Hull (1045mm) from HK



Yeah the Swordfish 200+ esc has the switched BEC, but if going over 4S it was recommended to get an external one. The esc is rated to 6S but it seems the BEC is not. From the attached photos, I can't seem to see anyone running an external set-up when using 5S setups, but I would love to know whether it is actually required.

Good to know the Turnigy models have an efficient system, but I'm now more keen on the additional functionality provided by the Swordfish 200+  

Old 09-06-2012, 05:38 AM
  #185  
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Default RE: Genesis Offshore Brushless RC Twin Hull (1045mm) from HK

Dont worry about using external BEC i never did and like i said i ran 6s through mine with no issues 
Proves in the vid
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7KFlyPL5iI[/youtube]
Old 09-06-2012, 08:56 PM
  #186  
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Default RE: Genesis Offshore Brushless RC Twin Hull (1045mm) from HK

Lovely!! Thanks for the follow-up. I will be putting in an order for the Swordfish 200+ as soon as they are back in stock. I also noted the Etti Cap Bank that you haveon your boat- what is the benefit of this and how is it installed?

On the motor front, I've noticed the 4082,2200Kv motor. Igather that one will spin faster but with less torque. Is that correct?
And the rating on the 2000is 1.5Y, while the 2000Kv is a 3D. What is the difference between the Yand D ratings?

One last thing on batteries, I have 2x 2S2P (5300mAh @ 50~100C) batteries from a buggy. Could I run these in series in the setup above (@2000Kv motor)? I am thinking that would make it 4S, so all good. Am I correct?
Old 09-07-2012, 04:49 AM
  #187  
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Default RE: Genesis Offshore Brushless RC Twin Hull (1045mm) from HK

some reading for the difference in Y D configurations scroll down toVariations in construction or read the whole thing
as for the motors what it all comes down to is HP, measured in watts for us. Speed = watts to the propeller, and motor load is determined by the size of the prop.The key is having a motor loaded down just enough to give you good speed, but not over heat it.
The bigger the motor the more watts, or mechanical HP it can deliver. This is the case with the 2 motors in question, if you look at the specs you will see the 2082 can handle 2000 watts, the 2092 can handle 2400 watts. Since we really are comparing apples to apples here we can assume the same efficiency levels out of each motor, and that translates to power at the prop.
For my setup I could have run the 2082 2000Kv motor and gone the same speed with the same prop I am now, but by going with the 2092 I can do it with "less" load on the motor. This will give me cooler temps, and better longevity. (and it cost more)
Now I say "less" load because in fact it would be the same load on each motor. (actually slightly more with the 2092 due to the extra weight) The same load because it is pushing the same boat the same speed. . . BUT, if you look at the load compared to the maximum capability of each motor, you are using less of that capability with the 2092.
I hope that makes sense, it does in my head[:@]
Old 09-07-2012, 09:21 AM
  #188  
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Default RE: Genesis Offshore Brushless RC Twin Hull (1045mm) from HK

Im gonna let you into something now
Iv currently designed/built and mould a new cat im going to be trying a new setup i havnt used before
Leopard 4082 1600KV 
Seawing 180 ESC
6s,5000mah,30C Lipo 
M445,X445,X447 props 
Will post pics later 
Old 09-07-2012, 09:51 AM
  #189  
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Default RE: Genesis Offshore Brushless RC Twin Hull (1045mm) from HK



NobodyFamous I can understand all of that. I would so dearly love to know how hot the 4092 would get under sustained load.I can see that it should find getting the grunt easier, but somehow the 4050 water jacket just seems a bit weeny to keep it all cool. I admit I am talking out my own a*se a bit at the mo, as I've never even seen it in the flesh!! Anyway that might just have to be something I find out for myself.

That attached link was very useful and indicated that the Y config offered a better low down torque with a sacrifice of some top-end speed.Maybe something I should consider. Thanks for the follow-up.

Old 09-07-2012, 10:00 AM
  #190  
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Default RE: Genesis Offshore Brushless RC Twin Hull (1045mm) from HK

F1madness thanks for sharing your new build spec. She looks like a quick-un and I note you've (again) gone for the 4082.1600Kv motor whic is in the 2Y (rather than D) config. Was that a conscious thing? Is there a noticable difference between the two?

I also noted the Seaking 180esc - going away from the Swordfish this time. Any particular reason for that?

And going 6S on that esc - I know it can officailly handle it, but are you worried about heat at all?

That's a nice selection of props. Who do you get your's from? And do you always buy thme balanced?

Thanks for your time.
Old 09-07-2012, 10:07 AM
  #191  
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Default RE: Genesis Offshore Brushless RC Twin Hull (1045mm) from HK

Fimadness, one other thing - I noted the impressive performance on the video of the Saga Gt 32" Cat you attached. Would you mind sharing the performance spec of that just as you defined the spec of the new boat? I can probably guess most of it, but I want to be sure .

And did you notice any heating (or other) problems with that config? Thanks
Old 09-07-2012, 10:36 AM
  #192  
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Default RE: Genesis Offshore Brushless RC Twin Hull (1045mm) from HK

No probs
The saga cat in the vid is running Leopard 4074 2000KV,swordfish 200amp esc,6s and x442 prop
Everything out of this cat was transfered into the genesis after a crash that destroy the hull 
Temps were cool could of propped up easily to the M445 prop but pool wasnt big enough really 
I dont really pay to much attention to the windings i just change the timings on the esc and see which works best with each setup
Im trying the Seaking ESC as i got it at the right price but any problems ill be back to the swordfish but will see as they have added extra caps so shouldnt be any problems like before
I buy my props balanced and sharpend this is a must if you wanna get the max out of your setup
Not worried about heat as its best to start with small prop and if temps ok prop up to the next size 

Old 09-07-2012, 11:22 AM
  #193  
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Default RE: Genesis Offshore Brushless RC Twin Hull (1045mm) from HK

Thanks for that!!

The build I am considering is:
Leopard 4092 2080KV 
Swordfish 200+ esc
6S,5000mah,40C Lipo 
HOR Racing Prop (Diameter: 43mm, Pitch:60.2mm) to begin with. 45 and 47's later - what is the difference between M445 and X445 by the way?

I'm still mulling over the motor. Wondering whether I might be asking for trouble going that high in voltage with 6S. Might need to check some RPM calcs [8D]

What do you reckon?
Old 09-07-2012, 11:50 AM
  #194  
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Default RE: Genesis Offshore Brushless RC Twin Hull (1045mm) from HK

If you are going to run 6s, get the 1480Kv option. (32856rpm)

Going a lot higher then 30,000rpm on your first boat WILL very likely yield frustration and problems.
Old 09-07-2012, 12:06 PM
  #195  
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Default RE: Genesis Offshore Brushless RC Twin Hull (1045mm) from HK



Yeah you have a point!! I've just been running through the calcs and seen the massive unloaded RPMs. Indeed frustration would have abounded!! I'm thinking maybe cap things at 5S for safety.

I have 2 x 2S2P packs that I could start out with in series. Then maybe go to 2 x 5S packs in parallel for better run times. Sound fair?

I'm still keen on a higher Kv engine (2000 or 2080) but wonder about the benefits of a lower Kv engine with bigger batteries (1200Kv on 6S - or 1200Kv on 8S). I've seen a number of builds in the latter layout, requiring far more $$$ for higher end esc. Do you get more torque? What is the difference in each of these approaches?

Old 09-07-2012, 12:09 PM
  #196  
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Default RE: Genesis Offshore Brushless RC Twin Hull (1045mm) from HK

Agree bud
Tebbsyboy stick to 5s on that setup and strt with a X442 prop this will help you get used to the boat and how the powered is delivered once you start upping in props youll be shocked how much those coule of mm larger makes a difference
The M445 prop is de tongued compared to the X445 so reduces the loads on the motor slightly but also reduces the acceleration aswell but still keeps topend speed

ORIGINAL: NobodyFamous

If you are going to run 6s, get the 1480Kv option. (32856rpm)

Going a lot higher then 30,000rpm on your first boat WILL very likely yield frustration and problems.
Old 09-07-2012, 12:38 PM
  #197  
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Default RE: Genesis Offshore Brushless RC Twin Hull (1045mm) from HK

Thanks heaps for the feedback fellas. I've revised my build a weeny bit and think I might go with the below:

Leopard 4082 2080KV
Swordfish 200+ esc
5S,5000mah,35C Lipo
X442 prop, with backup HOR Racing Prop (Diameter: 43mm, Pitch:60.2mm)

I'll open with the 4S battery setup and move to 5S when I'm comfortable with the boat.

According to my calcs, 40C would be ideal with a 200 esc. So should 35~70C be ok or would 45~90C be better? Would I even notice the difference?
Old 09-07-2012, 01:02 PM
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Default RE: Genesis Offshore Brushless RC Twin Hull (1045mm) from HK

as a guideline, higher voltage can make for a more efficient setup.  This is realized in less heat generation caused by less amps.

As discussed before, watts is power.  so lets say you want 2368 Watts.  This can be done at 14.8V (4s) and needs 170 amps.  If you bump the voltage to 22.2V (6s) you need only 107 amps. Again if you go crazy and run 44.4 (12s) you only need a mear 53 amps.  All 3 setups in theory will push you to the same speed. Running less amps means you can have smaller wires, connectors and Lipo C rating.  You need to match your ESC capability and motor to what battery setup you want to run.

You kind of have to start with the motor and work your way back to the batteries, then go back through to the motor again.  Tell a few people out loud about it, make 6-7 posts, read 2 dozen article, eventually buy something because it is one sale, then make your system.  THEN do it again slightly different on a new hull just to try. . . and before you know it, you will have a tool box full of "spare parts" and divorce papers  so watch yourself!
Old 09-07-2012, 01:03 PM
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Default RE: Genesis Offshore Brushless RC Twin Hull (1045mm) from HK

as far as the Lipo's go. . . better is always better, but maybe not necessary.
Old 09-07-2012, 05:19 PM
  #200  
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Default RE: Genesis Offshore Brushless RC Twin Hull (1045mm) from HK

I agree on the lipos - not a great deal of difference in price. Current thinking then is:

Leopard 4082 2000KV
Swordfish 200+ esc
5S,5000mah,45C Lipo
X442 prop, with backup HOR Racing Prop (Diameter: 43mm, Pitch:60.2mm)

Nothing ordered yet - some bits not avail at supplier. But like the balance. Will start the ball rolling at 4C and go from there.

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