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coleman camp fuel

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Old 04-19-2011, 04:50 AM
  #1  
bruce5385
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Default coleman camp fuel

see that some people are using this fuel in their boats. what are the advantages and disadvantages of using it. thanks bruce
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Old 04-19-2011, 05:35 AM
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Default RE: coleman camp fuel

You will see plenty of threads on the subject with lots of pros and cons.

Personally - I love the stuff.
Pros - Great shelf life and wont gum the carb if stored long periods.
Virtually no smell at all. More pleasant smell when burnt. I mean my wife will even volunteer to buy a can or two if I need it (and thats saying something).
No needle changes needed to swap from gas - or back to gas.
No noticeable changes in performance - (though some claim a cooler motor - myself included). I find the motor better mannered but hard to say it is fuel or luck!!
Comes in a cool metal carry can.
Burns clean - no residue
Compatible with IV gas bags and all Gasoline rated hoses etc (best I have seen anyway).
End of the day - keeps the wife happy - if she is happy then I have nothing to worry about. Add to that the long shelf life - I certainly dont run every boat every year [&o]


Negatives -
Burns clean - no residue so you cannot read plug color when tuning carb (can tune on gas and then switch over to Coleman)
Prohibitively priced. Last I purchased it was $8.88/gallon
Not race legal (last I heard)
Not recommended for some motors (full mods, QD's etc)
Probably something else I am missing.
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Old 04-19-2011, 05:54 AM
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Default RE: coleman camp fuel

I learned something great. I need some for bullhead fishing. Thanks for the imfo. Justaddwata Can you use that in some of the small scale outboards?
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Old 04-19-2011, 06:13 AM
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Default RE: coleman camp fuel


ORIGINAL: advanced builder

I learned something great. I need some for bullhead fishing. Thanks for the imfo. Justaddwata Can you use that in some of the small scale outboards?
You mean small scale as in Mercury 2hp or 4hp or small scale as in Zenoah with a leg?
I do not believe it is recommended for proper outboards but I am wishing I had some in mine as I did not drain it of fuel 2 seasons ago and I am sure it will need some work. Personally I would use it but it would make for a more expensive day out. I will certainly be using it when I store the outboard next winter.

As for Zen outboards it should be fine as long as it is not highly modded - if modded - check with the motor builder as to what they recommend for fuel and oil.
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Old 04-19-2011, 08:04 AM
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Default RE: coleman camp fuel

I know that it's IMPBA legal but I don't know about NAMBA.
It is cheaper than nitro!
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Old 04-19-2011, 09:35 AM
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Default RE: coleman camp fuel

i got a toxic motor and al sait it is safe to run im my engine. bought a can today and am hoping to try it one i get my pipe and header. thanks
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Old 04-19-2011, 03:09 PM
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Default RE: coleman camp fuel

It is NAMBA legal.
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Old 04-19-2011, 03:50 PM
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Default RE: coleman camp fuel

keep in mind it is only @ 55 octane burning real fast ! ..... In larger displacements above 35cc or so a DEATH SENTENCE for most engines due to detonation ... be aware !! By design camp fuel / white gas IS NOT A MOTOR FUEL

A lot use it straight up with oil, myself at 50/50 blending with regular gas wanting a low 70's octane blend.
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Old 04-19-2011, 04:47 PM
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Default RE: coleman camp fuel

My QD25HT hates it..
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Old 04-24-2011, 11:30 AM
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Default RE: coleman camp fuel

what if i mix 115 leaded race fuel and coleman fuel 50/50=about 93 octane.
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Old 04-24-2011, 11:46 AM
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Default RE: coleman camp fuel


ORIGINAL: bruce5385

what if i mix 115 leaded race fuel and coleman fuel 50/50=about 93 octane.
Not sure I see the point? If you want 93 octane why not just buy 93. Mixing 113 and coleman cannot be super cost effective.
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Old 04-24-2011, 12:45 PM
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Default RE: coleman camp fuel

Using camp fuel gets ride of the E10 mix that we get from the gas pumps, the oil I use says not to mix with alcohol fuels so I was thinking about trying some camp fuel this year as we just started the E10 mix.
Dave
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Old 04-24-2011, 05:57 PM
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Default RE: coleman camp fuel

cant buy leaded 93 octane. just wondering if leaded fuel would be better/faster.
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Old 04-24-2011, 07:25 PM
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Default RE: coleman camp fuel

Don't worry kids, the full-sized boaters are going through what we are. Ethanol-based fuels are messing with their engines. You may have to end up by going to a marina if you want unleaded regular. Ever buy gas at a marina? I did, once, just once. That'll remind you to gas up before hitting the lake!
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Old 04-26-2011, 06:56 PM
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Default RE: coleman camp fuel

The problem we have is it is getting harder and harder to get pump gas w/o ethanol added, so I have to drive over to another town just to get gas that is clean. So I have started using the camp fuel 50/50 with the 93 octane ethanol free gas, seems to run OK so far.
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Old 04-26-2011, 10:14 PM
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Default RE: coleman camp fuel

with the ethanol gas, all that is needed is a carb kit built in the last 10 years, retune for the fuel, and learn to keep fuel in the tank/carb if storing for a period of time. Use a good fuel line (Tygon, not neoprene).

The problem with full sized boats is the fiberglass gas tanks built into the hulls, old fuel lines and carburetors not designed for the ethanol gas, the carburetors not tuned appropriately for the fuel and the fact that ethanol gas doesn't store well. Any new boat as of the last couple years will have catalyst(s) and oxygen sensors and will be able to account for the different energy content fuels, and will have fuel ines with teflon liners as per USCG regulations... I work for Kodiak Marine... If you have to look it up, I know the website sucks...

The last time I ran my weedeater was in October or thereabouts, I left fuel in it and just pushed it to the side in the garage, most of the fuel evaporated over the winter so I filled the tank, primed it a couple times and it fired on the first pull this past saturday. If you leave the carburetors dry when stored the diaphragm's dry out (mainly the metering diaphragm from my experience) and stop working, if you aren't in a hurry you might be able to wet the diaphragm's and wait a couple days for it to soften up again...

I don't like the new gas, I just know that I don't have a choice so I'm adapting.
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Old 04-27-2011, 02:39 AM
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Default RE: coleman camp fuel

Ethanol containing fuel should not be left long in anything for that matter it shouldn't really be in there in the first place. Ethanol based fuel is ruining fuel systems in most everything it is put in. Especially those systems that were never designed to use the stuff. Etahnol is bad enough nevermind that once seperation has occured it can rust and corrode just about anything.
http://www.fuel-testers.com/expirati...hanol_gas.html

Reasons NOT to use it are too many to ignore,
http://www.fuel-testers.com/list_e10_engine_damage.html

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25936782/
Read this and decide you still want to use ethanol fuel in 2 strokes,

>>>>>>>
Rick Kitchings has been a small-engine mechanic for about 30 years, and he’s been busier than ever lately.

Recently, a customer came into his shop in Savannah, Ga., with a string trimmer that had barely been used. “It looked like it just came off the showroom floor, but the motor was absolutely shot, absolutely worn out,” Kitchings said.

The owner had fueled the trimmer with an gasoline-ethanol blend, which is becoming increasingly common thanks to a federal mandate to convert to biofuels.

Although the Web is rife with complaints from car owners who say ethanol damaged their engines, ethanol producers and automakers say it’s safe to use in cars. But smaller engines — the two-cycle utility engines in lawnmowers, chain saws and outboard boat motors — are another story.

Benjamin Mallisham, owner of a lawnmower repair shop in Tuscaloosa, Ala., said at least 40 percent of the lawnmower engines he repairs these days have been damaged by ethanol.

“When you put that ethanol in here, it eats up the insides or rusts them out,” Mallisham said. “All the rubber gaskets and parts — it eats those up.”

The sludge problem
Auto mechanics say the same thing takes place in car engines, where debris dislodged by ethanol in gas station fuel tanks can gum things up. But car engines are highly sophisticated; especially in later models, they’re equipped to comfortably handle the fallout of ethanol-blended gas, mechanics said.

The Renewable Fuels Association, a trade group for ethanol producers based in Washington, says there’s no evidence that ethanol can damage smaller engines, either.

“Tests completed on lawnmowers, chainsaws, weed trimmers and blower vacs with ethanol fuels showed no engine failures, no unscheduled maintenance and good performance,” the association said.

But mechanics across the country insist that as gasoline blended with ethanol takes over in more gas stations, lawnmowers and boat motors everywhere are choking.

Advertise | AdChoices“They’re starving for gas, because the little needle holes in them are stopped up with the gel that happens when that stuff breaks down,” Mallisham said. “It stops them up so it can’t run.”

Here’s what happens: In smaller engines, ethanol can create a chain reaction of events that end up clogging valves and rusting out small metal parts — including, crucially, carburetors.

“When you mix ethanol with your fuel, you’ve now put a chemical substance in there that’s going to attract moisture, which is going to promote a quicker deterioration of the fuel that you have,” said Bob Magnotti, owner of Magnotti’s Small Engine Service in Roanoke, Va.

In effect, said Doug Ryms, a mechanic at Como Mower Service in Columbus, Ohio, “the alcohol actually dissipates the oil. So on a two-cycle engine, you’re lubricating the engine, but the oil is being pushed away, so it’s actually not lubricating the engine.”

That creates a gummy residue, called shellack, that clogs filters and hoses. And it does no good to follow the rocking-chair wisdom that says you’ll be fine if you drain the tank before you gas it back up.

“People will tell you you can take the gas out of them and it won’t happen, but it’s the residue that does the damage,” Mallisham said.

Ethanol already under pressure
Most gasoline sold in the United States is now mixed with up to 10 percent ethanol, according to industry estimates. Use of the blended fuel, often called E10, has grown with a federal mandate designed to boost the levels of renewable fuels at the pump. In many areas, it’s the only gasoline widely sold.

The fuel blend has been the focus of debate in recent months as analysts and some farmers say the diversion of corn to ethanol production has led to higher prices for corn in its use as a food crop. The Environmental Protection Agency is considering a request for a temporary 50 percent cut in new mandates for ethanol production because of concern that they are helping drive up food costs.

In a study released this week, researchers at Purdue University in Indiana found that corn prices had risen to $4 a bushel, the highest in a decade, largely because of the higher prices farmers can demand from fuel producers.

“Three dollars was just because the price of oil went up and the market demanded more ethanol to substitute for gasoline,” said Wallace E. Tyner, co-director of Purdue’s Center for Global Trade Analysis.

David Summers, a biofuels researcher at Missouri University of Science and Technology in Rolla, said that while ethanol was cheaper to produce than pure gasoline because it is subsidized, vehicles may also get fewer miles to the gallon.

Advertise | AdChoices“It was the wonder fuel to get us out of trouble — and it won’t,” he said.

When you add in its tendency to damage some engines, many mechanics and green fuel advocates are asking whether ethanol is worth it.

“There is no massive PR machine working to point out the downsides of ethanol, like there is on the other side,” said Christa Westerberg, a lawyer in Stoughton, Wis., who has represented opponents of ethanol plants in Wisconsin.

Rick Kitchings, the mechanic in Georgia, said consumers simply should insist on pure gasoline for their small utility engines.

“Theoretically, avoid ethanol,” he said. “Avoid ethanol.”

>>>>>>>>>>

It is not that hard to find fuel without ethanol.

They do sell fuel without Ethanol you have to hunt a bit but it is around,

100LL Av gas at every airport blended with Colemans not hard to mix up fuel that will be perfect for your engines octane requirements. 100 low lead has more lead than even leaded fuel used to have and it is a lubricant and can promote better ring seal also.

Found this station,


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Old 04-27-2011, 07:23 AM
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Default RE: coleman camp fuel

My trimmer and chainsaw run just fine on pump gas and never had problems with any rc engine. I don't know what the problem is.
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Old 04-27-2011, 01:52 PM
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Default RE: coleman camp fuel

Take our word for it, if you run pump gas with ETHANOL you will have problems, it could be that the invasion of the junk hasn't hit your area, if so you want have problems.
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Old 04-27-2011, 08:36 PM
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Default RE: coleman camp fuel

I just got into RC and weedeaters and chainsaws AFTER the introduction of ethanol blend gas in my area, I'm NOT saying I like the stuff, I'm just saying it can be worked with. The commercial engine market issue is complexed with the introduction of all the emissions regulations at the same time as the ethanol fuel, half the engines from the mid 90's didn't run out of the box, and the stupid adjustment needle limiters didn't let you tune the engines to run without disabling them, most new lawn mowers aren't even adjustable and have so many dang passages in the carbs that they are a PIA to work on. I'm not arguing that it can't be a pain, I'm just saying that most of us don't have a choice but to deal with it. There is ONE gas station in my area that carries non ethanol premium, the only other options are race fuel.

I can deal with spending 15 minutes putting in a $3 diaphragm in every couple years and learning a couple tricks to help the components live as long as they can.
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Old 04-28-2011, 03:13 AM
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Default RE: coleman camp fuel

If you can only get ethanol containing fuels then the seperation method might be the answer. Add water shake well let it settle out and pull the fuel off the top layer leaving the water and ethanol on the bottom.

You really don't want that stuff in these engines and it isn't just because of rubber carb parts. Two stroke oils themselves don't like mixing with ethanol even alcohol(methanol)compatible oil.


The alcohol content will disperse the mixed oil as it is atomized and the spray "hits" the piston. The oil is washed away before it can provide the proper lubrication. Most two stroke manufacturers tell you not to use it and if you do the warranty is VOID because they know it ruins the whole engine. In many emission approved commercial equipment engines with set jetting it is even more important than ours because we use much more oil and we can richen mixtures to offset the lean mix ethanol causes.



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Old 04-28-2011, 09:00 PM
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Default RE: coleman camp fuel

did I mention the two stroke gas I used in the earlier mentioned weedeater was mixed in either October or January? I've had decent luck with the stuff, if you want to go out of your way to work around it that's fine. I don't know what it's like to work with the real gas like I said, I've dealt with MANY weedeaters and lawn mowers in the last 10 years, I have at least 50 weedeater engines, another 20 chainsaw engines... most of them 10-15 years old or so and work just fine (I only use about 10 of those, rest are to convert or use as spare parts) so they don't get used often, all gotten cheap used because they didn't run, most of them had dried up gas in the carbs that congealed and plugged something, the 4 stroke just needed cleaning, two stroke mostly just needed a $3 regulator diaphragm. I have a Traxxas Monster Buggy with an old Zenoah G230 that runs like a top, I've had it 3-4 years and put maybe a gallon through it, it sits for months on end without being used and it always runs fine, I've blamed the carb a couple times for it not running but it usually turns out to be a fouled plug or dirty air filter or just being over choked. When I run the thing, I run it til it brakes then throw it in the corner, leave old gas in it, when I pull it back out I top off the tank (not draining it) and go again... I run the ethanol gas in weedeaters with single needle carbs without too much issue.

Back a few years ago I advertised my small engine services on craigslist, I had one customer that I had to work on his friggin push mower 3 or 4 times, every change of season, he'll probably call me in the next month... that dang thing kept getting jelled ethanol gas in the carb plugging up the orifices, some of it hardening and being a pain. Being a float carb I told him to run it dry in the fall, if he listened I think it'll work fine for him this season. Similar story with a tiller for another customer, although one time he ran out of gas and I went out of my way to help him out... I tell you these stories to show that I do understand what you preach, except with certain precautions you can use the lesser quality gas without issue. For the unknowing consumer the issue can cost a lot of money in repairs but for someone that understands engines and can work around things it is fine.

I'm not trying to argue, I'm just saying that even though ethanol blend gas sucks it isn't the end of the world, Ive learned to work around it. From what I've heard the gasohol of the 80's was a royal pain (being born in 1982 I don't remember it though), things have improved a bit since then though.

back to the original topic, another thing not mentioned is that camp fuel has less of an odor both unused and burned, but like mentioned it has a lower octane, I've never used it myself.
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Old 04-28-2011, 09:22 PM
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Default RE: coleman camp fuel


ORIGINAL: rangerfredbob

I'm not trying to argue, I'm just saying that even though ethanol blend gas sucks it isn't the end of the world, Ive learned to work around it. From what I've heard the gasohol of the 80's was a royal pain (being born in 1982 I don't remember it though), things have improved a bit since then though.
I was well into my career as a commercial small engine service tech in the early 80's and I can tell you first hand it was UGLY ... REAL UGLY !!
Think those who owned German built STIHL chainsaws got the brunt of it tho .... at the time STIHL used Magnesium alloy for there case/fuel tank castings and what the alki & water absorbed did was pock crater them into looking like craters of the moon and worse !!
Every manufactures fuels lines swelled like spaghetti noodles and near all rubber parts within the fuel systems were failing.

We are headed there again [:@] [:@][:@][:@][:@][:@][:@][:@][:@]
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Old 04-29-2011, 05:27 AM
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Default RE: coleman camp fuel

Colemans doesn't have ethanol that is good but it is very low octane that may not be sufficient for all engines.
Non-ethanol gasoline is a better alternative to Colemans IMO.

http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov


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