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pipe resistance

Old 08-31-2011, 10:31 PM
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madmorgan
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Default pipe resistance

hey guys setting up first 1/8th gasser after i install the pipe onto the motor and tighten the water cooled coupler down should it give easy resistence when rotating down to bolt to the support or fairly hard resistance? seems like the resistance i have if i run im going to leak water into the exhast and ot the motor .
Old 09-01-2011, 04:46 AM
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Wildercraft
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Default RE: pipe resistance

Get yourself a No Leak Flange set up From Gizmo.. They are great and the cheapest I have found.
The old style flange like you have will cause you nothing but grief. If you just touch the pipe or blow over in a wreck it will move your pipe andleak water into the exhaust and make your motor run terrible. Junk it and go with a no leak is my answer. Also make sure your pipe (if water cooled) has good orings on it so it doesn't leak in to the exhaust too. It needs to seal around your header. If your header is aluminum makes sure you have plenty of coolingto the pipeso it does not distort your header and leak there too. Good luck
Old 09-01-2011, 02:39 PM
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Default RE: pipe resistance

thats what i figured, so i have to purchase a whole new exhaust that figures . thats the last time i buy something used off any of these web sites thanx bro .
Old 09-01-2011, 06:06 PM
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HendricX
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Default RE: pipe resistance

Can't you separate the manifold-flange from the exhaust ?

If so ... new and/or thicker o-rings might help , sanding/filing the flange somewhat thinner ,

will also result in more pressure on the o-rings.
Old 09-01-2011, 09:51 PM
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Default RE: pipe resistance

Mike,
Did you use both o-rings. The header needs to be sandwiched between the two rings. I have never had a issue with those flanges if the oring's are installed properly and it should be tight enough to grip a stainless header. The aluminum headers they were originally designed for were thicker. You can take material off the mating surface of the outer flange and it would tighten it up even more. I always have to do this to the brand new no-leak design flanges to get them tight enough, also.
No doubt a new style no leak prevents water from entering the system if you burn up your o-rings but the regular water cooled have been used successfully for years. Some still prefer them to the new style.
If the o-rings aren't leaking the water cooled style like that engine has on it work very well.

Thank you,
Daniel

Old 09-01-2011, 10:37 PM
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hendocap
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Default RE: pipe resistance

There's nothing wrong with that Pipe, you just need to install it properly. It takes 2 o-rings , one on each side of the lip.
Old 09-02-2011, 02:27 AM
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madmorgan
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Default RE: pipe resistance

there was only 1 oring in the box unless the 2nd one fell out?
Old 09-02-2011, 02:31 AM
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Default RE: pipe resistance

btw dan i had that motor started a few times yesterday just about got this thing rdy to get wet just have to seal radio box get this muffler fingered out and im rdy to rock n roll
Old 09-02-2011, 04:30 AM
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Default RE: pipe resistance

ORIGINAL: madmorgan

there was only 1 oring in the box unless the 2nd one fell out?
They surely need two. ????? They are a .20 part. You need to have plenty on hand for replacements. Be sure to use a new stock type sandwich gasket between the flange and the cylinder. It will increase o-ring life quadruple.
Old 09-02-2011, 06:42 AM
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Default RE: pipe resistance

NO-LEAK MANIFOLD O-RINGS:

I recently searched for replacement o-rings
for the no leak manifold. Not that mine were
degraded but I agree with those who are convinced
that repeat exposure to fuel and heat means that
regular (at least annual) replacement is part of
routine maintenance.

While I never found a Web store where the item was
specifically listed, I noticed that Maston's Web
store has a page with an assortment of o-rings
displayed.

http://www.mastonsrcmarine.com/

Decided to call Maston's and not only do they have
them but they have choices of materials in the two
sizes needed. I went with the brown / white o-ring
combo that Maston's is recommending.

Here are some notes I have on how the two o-rings are
installed.

1. The 3.0mm o-ring slips on the header.
2. The 3.5mm o-ring inserts in the outer flange
3. Place an exhaust manifold gasket (fiber or metal
bonded) between the manifold and the cylinder
4. Install two screws - anti-seize compound optional

Note on the exhaust manifold gasket - getting good
results here with the Super Heavy Duty Steel Reinforced
Graphite Exhaust Gaskets (big name for little part)
part # (fd227) - from Dave's Discount Motors. The gasket
never sticks, seals well and maintains it's original
thickness.

Old 09-02-2011, 12:02 PM
  #11  
danielplace
 
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Default RE: pipe resistance

The o-rings for normal 7/8" No Leak flanges is a #212 o-ring which has the dimensions are 7/8" I.D. 1-1/8" O.D. with a 1/8" cross section.

The white teflons do make for a tighter crush initially but with only a little run time the header embeds itself in the teflon because teflon has like Zero resilience then it looses the tightness it had and starts to bypass exhaust. Best is both Viton and the cover cut enough that it smashes the o-rings into every nook and crany and is especially tight. Once the o-ring seeps one iota of exhaust the fire passing tbe o-ring just burns it up.
Old 09-02-2011, 12:41 PM
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madmorgan
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Default RE: pipe resistance

i did a generic measure with the calips i put it around the finger trying no to distort the 1 oring that was in the housing behind the flange and it measured like 1.0156 in inch not mm so do i go with a 1in  in od as i figure as nu tighten it down it will flatten ? and there has to be a diff between black orange white orings i seen 1 place had orings that would withstand 1200 f   hmmmm looks like i wait  a few more days b4 i get to play  or as the elmira boat club would say test their rigs as they dont take theirs out to have fun.
Old 09-02-2011, 05:38 PM
  #13  
NailHead
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Default RE: pipe resistance

Is there more than one style of No Leak Manifolds being
sold with different o-rings? Some of the descriptions on
these o-rings appears to be conflicting.

I got my No Leak Manifold from ZippKits. It shipped with
two green o-rings that look the same size at first glance
but they are not. One is 3mm thick and the other is 3.5mm
thick.

It wasn't until I found the installation instructions I
posted earlier (I did not write those - someone else
posted them and they sure helped me) that I could figure
out how to assemble it. Once the o-rings are in the correct
positions it goes together easily.

After I found out that there was a half milimeter difference
in thickness, I tried to measure them before they were
exposed to fuel or heat. Here are my measurements:

#1 - 3.0mm thick; 22mm ID; 28mm OD (slips on header)
#2 - 3.5mm thick; 21mm ID; 28mm OD (inserts in housing)

The fact that the OD is the same on both makes it easy
to assume (just like I did initially) that there is no
difference.

I have not needed to relieve anything on my No Leak Manifold
to get a tight seal but I can see where that could be
benefical. I have installed and removed my manifold several
times and it seals well every time I put it back on.

I once thought the colors of these rings was an industry
standard and we could always tell the composition by the
color. Not true. I did some searching on different
o-ring manufactuers pages and the truth is they can and
do make practically any composition in any color they
want. Don't take my word - check it out. There may be
composition tendencies based on color but there is no
industry wide standard using colors to indicate composition.

I did not belabor the composition issue when on the phone
with Maston's. He recommended a combination I'm not familiar
with and I told him I would be glad to try it his way.

I agree that Viton is an excellent choice - good resistance
to petrolium products and good heat tolerance.
Old 09-02-2011, 11:18 PM
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madmorgan
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Default RE: pipe resistance

i guess that is probably true  for just about anything theres no stabdard for anything anymore i will try the 1 1/8th orings first and see if the hold up they fit nicely and the flange tightened up nice i guess it will be trial and error like anything else . if it isnt raining later today im getting this beast wet wish me luck lol. although i dont think these orings are going to stand up .  any1 have any ideas about how much heat is coming off this exhaust port ?
Old 09-03-2011, 07:01 AM
  #15  
NailHead
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Default RE: pipe resistance

I would run what you have and keep a close
watch for manifold leaks.

Once the leaking starts - the tuned pipe
performance is interfered with - the engine
cannot run normally. Also the exhaust gases
start flowing by the o-rings and whatever is
left of them gets damaged more = the leak gets
worse.

I suspect that the best way to resolve this
is get with boaters in your area. Compare
your hardware with theirs and see/measure their
o-rings. These are "special" o-rings in both
size and composition.

If that is not doable - just order a new manifold
from ZippKits or any of the fine distributors
you have read about here like Maston's or Gizmo.

If you get a new manifold - before you run it
stop and carefully measure the OEM o-rings. This
will be your best guide to finding replacements that
fit and handle the heat.

These engines require very little in terms of
maintenance but keeping a tight exhaust, making
sure the carb/fuel intake is not leaking, occasionally
checking torque on the cylinder screws, avoid alcohol
blended fuel (at least drain the fuel after running)
and don't try to see how long a spark plug can last
will keep the fun going.
Old 09-03-2011, 10:51 AM
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Default RE: pipe resistance

i think i will order the 1 1/8th  1/8 thick vitons 400 to 600 and resist oil and gas
Old 09-04-2011, 02:47 PM
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NailHead
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Default RE: pipe resistance

Correction on post dated 9/2/11 by NailHead:

The following quoted text was incorrect - my bad.

>I went with the brown / white o-ring
>combo that Maston's is recommending.

The new o-rings from Maston's arrived today and the
correct color description should have been brown and orange.

Now for dimensions - it's the same as the green OEM o-rings
that shipped with the manifold.

Brown = 3.5mm thick; 21mm ID; 28mm OD
(this thicker brown one inserts in the housing)

Orange = 3.0mm thick; 22mm ID; 28mm OD
(this thinner orange one slips onto the header)

Part numbers: #212V and #212S
Old 09-05-2011, 08:02 AM
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Default RE: pipe resistance

had boat out yesterday for maiden run she dove and stalled 5 foot out recovered adjusted low needle about 1/16th turn in and high needle about 1/8th in she got up on plane running pretty decent forgot to raise antenna on tx she got out of range i let off throttle raised antenna i wasnt quick enough she stalled . recovered it had a touch of oil on plug but it isnt fouled , checked orings they still look new, had a bit of oil on end of pipe (running down) am i running rich or did i put to much oil in gas mix i put in 10 oz penzoil 2 stroke ?
Old 09-05-2011, 09:34 AM
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Default RE: pipe resistance

Use 8 oz oil per gallon or 16/1 ratio.
Old 09-05-2011, 10:06 AM
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Default RE: pipe resistance

i believe this motor is still in break in period daniel place sold it to me and he said it had about 1/2 gallon through it break in is after about 1 gallon correct me if im wrong
Old 09-06-2011, 05:43 AM
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Wildercraft
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Default RE: pipe resistance

You are going to want to check to see if your pipe and manifold set up are sealed up and not letting water in the exhaust system somewhere. To do this just pull the hose loose from the pickup (rudder) if that's where it's at and plug the outlet (where the water goes out) with your finger. Blow thru the hose and if it is sealed up no air will escape, This is what you want. If air escapes then you have a leak at the exhast flange or around the pipe orings which seal around the header. Wet coming out of the pipe might mean water is leaking somewhere in your set up... This is always agood practice to get used to and should be checked always to make sure there is no exhaust/water problems. Simple thing to do..
Good luck and hope I explained it so you can check it out yourself.
Old 09-08-2011, 03:02 AM
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madmorgan
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Default RE: pipe resistance

i checked that by putting some water in that line plugged off that outlet and put my airbrush nozzle in and input 30 psi in pickup end no water escaped so im thinking it sealed
Old 09-08-2011, 04:55 AM
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Wildercraft
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Default RE: pipe resistance

As long as that checks the whole cooling system then I think you'll be ok. Just remember that any smallmisalignment of the pipe can cause it to leak that's why the old school stuff can cause grief..
No leak flange is still the way to go in my book. Have Fun!
Old 09-09-2011, 03:34 AM
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Default RE: pipe resistance

im running dual pickup 1 to head 1 to exhaust flange

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