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Putting together a plan for a GTX...

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Old 12-30-2011, 11:14 AM
  #1
wantariva
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Default Putting together a plan for a GTX...



Ok, so Im starting to put together a list of major items that Iwill need in order to build a quality, fast, GTX Ineed some insight and suggestions on the following items that Ifound on gizmotors.com:

Electronics:

volt watch II onboard receiver battery monitor
Futaba s3050 digital servo 90 oz/in. @6v. (either 2 or 3 depending on how I do the throttle linkage)
Through box seal kit (3 or 4)
Futaba switch harness
400mm Futaba antenna
Aluminum servo tray (2 or 3 depending again on throttle linkage)
Futaba futl7630 603fs receiver
Futaba 3pmx computer radio
Venom racing 5 cell 6v 1600 MAH
Venom fail safe
Double end 4-40 variety pack linkage rods (2)
Aeromarine #13 radio box

Drivetrain:

2 RCMK k-600 motors (gonna be a tonnn of power!!!! )
2 diaphragm water pumps
4 through the hull water dumps
2 through the hull water pickups
2 square 1/4" flex shafts (dont know length yet)
2 1/4" square drive collets
2 GMM racing drive dogs
2 RCMK Arneson drives (I think thats the right name for them?The steerable drives that were on another GTX build on the forum)
T bar
2 brass tubes

Hull:

Expresscraft GTX 65"

Things I definitely need help with:

Motor mounts (2 k-600's in a GTX hull is gonna take some ingenuity)
exhaust tips
exhaust (wont really know until Ihave everything in front of me)
cowl locks
plexiglass for the radio box cover

other than bell cranks and little odds and ends do I have a pretty complete list and will everything above work well with one another. I know someone is gonna pipe in about the RCMK's and reliability and too much power but lets save that for another thread ok? Any help you guys could offer would be great! Its this forum that got me this far in my thought process!! lol

edit: if I decided to go with clutches what brand can handle the power?Has anyone ever done a side hull exhaust?

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Old 12-30-2011, 01:19 PM
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Default RE: Putting together a plan for a GTX...

Hi mate, i am currently building a twin S-520 cat an can tell you you may need another 2 waterpickups ( double ones), you exhausts manifolds may have to be custom ones especially if you have a tight space,  your battery monitor seems to drain more volts than the rest of the servo's so ditch that and get yourself a Killer bee failsafe,  engine mounts can be found either on RCMK website or at Gizmoto's ,  you will need atleast double the 4-40 rodends and linkages than you mention,  Some needle locks for the carby's,  throttle arms also for the carby's,   if you plan to use stuffing tubes for the drive line then go with one you can put an oiler on.
 There is plenty more you will probably need and the build you have chosen is a very dear one but well worth it.
Best of luck
Mick
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Old 12-30-2011, 01:23 PM
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Default RE: Putting together a plan for a GTX...

Think your going to be more disappointed with the outcome with a pair of inlines in her. Been done before and boat gets too heavy and slower than if you had a single inline in her. Think you will make a more complex build that will be significantly more work, money and time and less speed and performance - plus you will likely end up spending more time trying to sort out problems instead of enjoying her. It woul dbe one thing if this was a big hull that demanded the power - but realistically the GTX will probably be faster with a single zen yet alone inline.
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Old 12-30-2011, 02:53 PM
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Default RE: Putting together a plan for a GTX...

Have to agree with Matt,a single inline motor would probs be faster than two heck even a single motor would probs be faster especially if you go with a 30 cc zen or rcmk,power to weight ratio is better.People have tried single 30 cc zens and inline zenoahs in my apache 58 hulls and so far the fastest was a single at 59 mph,def not much between them top end wise so not sure its worth all the extra expense.
Two inlines in a 65 " hull like the GTX is just way over the top,far too heavy.
Mart
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Old 12-30-2011, 04:28 PM
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Default RE: Putting together a plan for a GTX...

Matt and Mart are 100% correct power to weight ratio and drive setup is what makes speed . You can get this hull to run very fast with a single mod engine !

I built my GTX with no speed in mind just a fun boat. Third run 54 MPH some minor tuning and 58 MPH + no problem and loves rough water !

Inline stock Zens it took some runs tuning carbs and drive changing props to get there and got a little over 60 MPH a few times in rough water.

Keep us posted with your build .

My GTX ( Sold it last year )


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Old 12-30-2011, 04:40 PM
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i think the advice of a single inline is good advice however, we talked about this and like you said here you are,there is no comparison on the inline zenohas to the inline rcmk with k-30 cylinders, as far a cluthes go those motors will slow to a crawl, i would not use a clutch on the motors, its just not really needed,you have the pics of the twin inline zenoha boat so you know it will all fit the rcmk is more compact, so your build should be a little better, i would go with a plan of having the front pipes go forward and out some nicely made side ports, and only 2 going out the back, this will free up a tone of space in the back of the boat and with the power you will have no issue of to much weight up front, we have added 3lbs to the thunderbolt with a single k-600 and are still at 80mph with the thunderbolt, i can put water pick up thru the bottom of the hull when im building it so they are on the inside of the boat and not on the outside cluttering up the transom, the k-600 runs very cool and will only need 2 pick ups per motor.if it where me i would make a jig outside the boat, and do your lay up on it, 3 rails on a board instead of in the boat,once you are happy then move it to the boat, this is something you can do as you get parts, no clutches no water pumps needed, i would not try to order every thing at once, get your motors and mounts and drives then mock it up on your templet and fill in the blanks,a great plan will go a long way on this type of build,keep this in mind this type of build has only been done by a few guys on the planet, so there will be very limited first hand advice, and i dont think anyone has done anything like this with a set of k-600,the prop size we are useing does not even compare to what a inline zen will swing so its a whole new game, i say go for it.
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Old 12-30-2011, 04:51 PM
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Default RE: Putting together a plan for a GTX...

this is what got him motivated, i do not disagree with anyone on the advice, but i know from having a hobby shop for 20 years, that sometimes the build is more important then the running, some of my best airplane builders never learned to fly, some of our best train customers did not have lay outs, so who am i to tell you how to get your moneys worth, plus a can only speculate on how it will turn out, ive been told for years that our thunderbolt would not make a great race boat, but we got first place in the 1st ever imbpa/namba twin out rigger class,
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Old 12-30-2011, 07:23 PM
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Default RE: Putting together a plan for a GTX...

My built for your reference. Will get it wet soon!

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_10767392/tm.htm
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Old 12-30-2011, 09:02 PM
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Default RE: Putting together a plan for a GTX...

I know someone is gonna pipe in about the RCMK's and reliability and too much power but lets save that for another thread ok? Any help you guys could offer would be great! Its this forum that got me this far in my thought process!! lol


Nice plan - glad it's your money will be cool project ..

Will not be fast (power to weight ratio) - actually like Matt and Mart said - (unlike some guys who post here Matt and I actually own twins) u can only go so far with power then weight takes over
will be tough on cables (most guys with twins looking at 5/16" -
will be very complicated (might be cool built though)
will be extremely 'hot' inside - unless u figure out how to vent (4) 30cc engines - and have 2 1/2 times that amount air out

looking forward to watching you build this puppy - you have a list

Post some pictures ........ I curious to know how much floatation u need in a medium sized hull like GTX just to stop (2) twin engines, (4) exhaust systems, (2) sets mounts with (2) clutches, HD servos (need biggies for those drives) , batteries and fuel... from sinking

Might be interesting if you flip it

Have fun ........ go for it post pictures

Zoom Zoom

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Old 12-31-2011, 12:20 AM
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Default RE: Putting together a plan for a GTX...

i keep hearing about weight and all...what does one of these motors actually weigh......thank you all for the insight...i dont know when this build will start i am just trying to get a rough idea of where i need to be financially.....roughly twenty eight horsepower should have no problem at all pushing this beast through the fifties in my eyes.....itll be almost one hundred twenty cc....i have ridden mini bikes with less that hauled my big backside anywhere i wanted to go with no problem haha i would thin setup properly it should be a monster. it was suggested that i go bigger on the servos....any suggestions on that. is there anything else that you guys see as glaringly wrong. sorry for the poor grammar and punctuation...my phone and this forum dont get along for some reason...any punctuation other than periods dont work and my number characters wont work lol
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Old 12-31-2011, 02:04 AM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: wantariva

i keep hearing about weight and all...what does one of these motors actually weigh......thank you all for the insight...i dont know when this build will start i am just trying to get a rough idea of where i need to be financially.....roughly twenty eight horsepower should have no problem at all pushing this beast through the fifties in my eyes.....itll be almost one hundred twenty cc....i have ridden mini bikes with less that hauled my big backside anywhere i wanted to go with no problem haha i would thin setup properly it should be a monster. it was suggested that i go bigger on the servos....any suggestions on that. is there anything else that you guys see as glaringly wrong. sorry for the poor grammar and punctuation...my phone and this forum dont get along for some reason...any punctuation other than periods dont work and my number characters wont work lol
Dont want to start an argument here but your biggest mistake is thinking the more power you have the better,your not the first and wont be the last but ill bet a single 30 CC engine in that same boat would smoke the twin inline powered one,
I understand the dream of owning a boat with twin inlines but i feel your choice of hull for that build is wrong,even the 72" GTX is too small for them in my opinion.So id suggest either an 84 Apache or something of similar size for those motors or stick to a single inline like Steves in the photos but agree with Tom the k30 might be a better option than the zens due to power and weigth ratio again.Im not trying to be negative or ruin your dream just trying to help you from making a big mistake and building a pig wich will be all show and no go in my opinion but then what do i know.
Ill shut up now.
Mart
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Old 12-31-2011, 02:17 AM
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Default RE: Putting together a plan for a GTX...

Second that.
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Old 12-31-2011, 04:28 AM
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Default RE: Putting together a plan for a GTX...

good question, i just happen to have a brand new modded redline zenoha no pull start it weighs in at 2.86 lbs on my trusty ups digital scale and this brand new rcmk s- 520 without a pullstart weighs in at 5.76 lbs, if you go with aluminum pipes, i would say you are going to be at around 32lbs, rays 30+ LBS apache ran in the 50s with a single inline twin, i do not think his boat was much bigger then 65" if its bigger at all. not sure on that,so to me the hp to weight does not go againt this build,i just happen to have 2 520's so here is a picture, it will be tight and now that the hull is carbon and will not flex, i would come up from the floor with rails just big enough for the motors, you dont need to go front to back like a standard fiberglass hull, bonowang has a great turn up set of manifolds that will give the carbs more air, as stated before the k-30S need water restrictions just to make enough heat to run well, so if the heat is any issue let the water flow, as far as fresh air needed if the airflow is not good the motor will not breath, single double whatever, fun noodles are good for 200 lbs or thats what the box says anyways, to me the biggest hurdle will be the pipes thats why i say go forward with 2 of them, jrS 8711 servo is got a lot of power, hi tech has a new one thats even more 500 + oz not sure of the # i know its strong enough to bend a aluminum servo arm, al is running it in his t-bolt, hope this helps, again about the quality and reliability ect. in my opinion rcmk is the best you can buy in all cases. any issues they had are behind them at this point.
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Old 12-31-2011, 08:40 AM
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Default RE: Putting together a plan for a GTX...



Gee Tom looks easy ........ Maybe YOU should build one ......... no real sense trying to explain simple physics to some people

No one said they would not fit ... it's just  .... what is accomplished with second K600 ????  You just don't get what everyone else is saying ... to you it's about selling another hull   to the rest of us .... it a project headed in wrong direction

Build one for yourself Tom should run great .......... [:-]





Lol

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Old 12-31-2011, 08:53 AM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: Ultimate48

Matt and Mart are 100% correct power to weight ratio and drive setup is what makes speed . You can get this hull to run very fast with a single mod engine !

I built my GTX with no speed in mind just a fun boat. Third run 54 MPH some minor tuning and 58 MPH + no problem and loves rough water !

Inline stock Zens it took some runs tuning carbs and drive changing props to get there and got a little over 60 MPH a few times in rough water.

Keep us posted with your build .

My GTX ( Sold it last year )


Hey man where did you get those exhaust tips? They are very nice looking!!
Thanks
Nikko

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Old 12-31-2011, 08:56 AM
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Default RE: Putting together a plan for a GTX...

Quote:
ORIGINAL: expresscraft

this is what got him motivated
Problem is the boat that got him motivated never ran right (despite being built by a guy who knows his boats) and the owner stripped the motors out of her and sold her off. It was Tom Borisch who did the build. He contacted me in 2005 asking if the motors would fit in the GTX - [link=http://imageevent.com/justaddwata/morerc/info/apachepics]heres my pics showing a dummy fit [/link]. If I am not mistaken Robert Neito now owns the hull.

I am all for encouraging someone to get creative of push the power envelope but just wanted to voice my opinion about the likelihood that the outcome might not be as desirable as hoped.
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Old 12-31-2011, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: Ultimate48

Matt and Mart are 100% correct power to weight ratio and drive setup is what makes speed . You can get this hull to run very fast with a single mod engine !

I built my GTX with no speed in mind just a fun boat. Third run 54 MPH some minor tuning and 58 MPH + no problem and loves rough water !

Inline stock Zens it took some runs tuning carbs and drive changing props to get there and got a little over 60 MPH a few times in rough water.

Keep us posted with your build .

My GTX ( Sold it last year )


Hey man where did you get those exhaust tips? They are very nice looking!!
Thanks
Nikko

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Old 12-31-2011, 09:57 AM
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randy you keep voicing your opinion about me trying to sell hulls, just to set the record straight i sell more hulls then we can make, i agreed with everyone about the single set up over the quad, that said he has already herd it and in another thread voiced this is what he wants to discuss, thats why this is a discussion form, most likley it will not go any further then this anyways. one thing is for sure the number of guys that can talk about the k-600 is a lot smaller then those that have built twin engine boats,the new motor does open new doors the prop they swing will be bigger then other inlines, trying to sell hulls? you dont know me very well.i spend as much time helping people with boats i did not make as i do with our boats, good luck on that idea though
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Old 12-31-2011, 09:59 AM
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those exshaust tips are gas airplane velocity stacks from great planes, if that info is ok coming from someone who might be trying to just sell you a hull,
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Old 12-31-2011, 10:05 AM
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randy in your haste to bash me did you over look post #6?, i clearly agree after that its just something to talk about
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Old 12-31-2011, 10:14 AM
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Default RE: Putting together a plan for a GTX...

I dream about these builds to escape from the pressures of day to day life. I may think about one for a year before buying anything. Whether they work or not, it is a lot of fun to go through the motions.

Some people just like a lot of componentry in the hull whether it works or not. Some people are all about the speed. To each his own. In my mind its all about what your priority is not someone elses.

That said, I believe Tom Borisch was never able to get his GTX to run right because of the power/weight and ended up putting those motors in a 96 inch cat which was definitely not underpowered. Didn't he do a thread on that boat?

Lot of money to put into something that just pi$$es you off.
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Old 12-31-2011, 11:51 AM
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Default RE: Putting together a plan for a GTX...


Quote:
ORIGINAL: TheFridge189


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Ultimate48

Matt and Mart are 100% correct power to weight ratio and drive setup is what makes speed . You can get this hull to run very fast with a single mod engine !

I built my GTX with no speed in mind just a fun boat. Third run 54 MPH some minor tuning and 58 MPH + no problem and loves rough water !

Inline stock Zens it took some runs tuning carbs and drive changing props to get there and got a little over 60 MPH a few times in rough water.

Keep us posted with your build .

My GTX ( Sold it last year )


Hey man where did you get those exhaust tips? They are very nice looking!!
Thanks
Nikko

Exhaust tips are custom made by XXXboatworks a few years back no longer available .

Bonzi has some nice ones ( http://www.bonzisports.com/store/pro...roducts_id=131 )
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Old 12-31-2011, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: expresscraft

randy you keep voicing your opinion about me trying to sell hulls, just to set the record straight i sell more hulls then we can make, i agreed with everyone about the single set up over the quad, that said he has already herd it and in another thread voiced this is what he wants to discuss, thats why this is a discussion form, most likley it will not go any further then this anyways. one thing is for sure the number of guys that can talk about the k-600 is a lot smaller then those that have built twin engine boats,the new motor does open new doors the prop they swing will be bigger then other inlines, trying to sell hulls? you dont know me very well.i spend as much time helping people with boats i did not make as i do with our boats, good luck on that idea though
Tom
Bash u ??? This is FIRSTTIMEIsaid anything about ur dozens of comments on various sites about - how you alwaays bring up ur boats and products .... What idea would You be talking about ?? I'm sure u can manage to slide a few more pictures of Expresscraft in and what products you sell. Dude too many fumes. Sell off some race bikes - buy a few boat parts (OFYOUROWN) and come play with us.

But now that you decided on having a go a me ................. bring it on .......

Have at er Tom


Zoom Zoom

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Old 12-31-2011, 01:13 PM
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Hmm I guess these ones that I found on tower are different? http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...P?I=LXJ775&P=8

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Old 12-31-2011, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: mistycreekboats


Quote:
ORIGINAL: expresscraft

randy you keep voicing your opinion about me trying to sell hulls, just to set the record straight i sell more hulls then we can make, i agreed with everyone about the single set up over the quad, that said he has already herd it and in another thread voiced this is what he wants to discuss, thats why this is a discussion form, most likley it will not go any further then this anyways. one thing is for sure the number of guys that can talk about the k-600 is a lot smaller then those that have built twin engine boats,the new motor does open new doors the prop they swing will be bigger then other inlines, trying to sell hulls? you dont know me very well.i spend as much time helping people with boats i did not make as i do with our boats, good luck on that idea though
Tom
Bash u ??? This is FIRSTTIMEIsaid anything about ur dozens of comments on various sites about - how you alwaays bring up ur boats and products .... What idea would You be talking about ?? I'm sure u can manage to slide a few more pictures of Expresscraft in and what products you sell. Dude too many fumes. Sell off some race bikes - buy a few boat parts (OFYOUROWN) and come play with us.

Spend some of YOURcash and video it for us. Some one who does SOOOOOOOOOO many boats should have a few of THEIRown to show us.

The whoo is me is wearing thin ... we all heard it . Glad u sell more hulls than u make perhaps we can stop hearing about ur living in garage because u don't make any money.

When u get bored u can always come to my utube and see some of my boats .......... THATIOWNANDIBUILT ... only a millon + hits ........... HOWABOUTU???

But now that you decided on having a go a me ................. bring it on .......

Have at er Tom


Zoom Zoom

Randy
I guess we all interperet things in different ways, but I got a completely different vibe as to what expresscraft has been saying then you did mistycreek. Also, was it REALLY neccesary to practically make fun of him and cyberbully him in your post? No. It wasn't. All it did was put you at a lower level then him. And you clearly don't know much about him, as expresscraft said in a post on this thread how he owns a hobby shop. So that explains why he would be some poor junky who lives in his garage right? To me and I think alot more people, it is you Mistycreek who is clearly trying to start a fight over an rc boat forum. Also, you completely contradict yourself in your post. You sart off by saying how he is trying to advertise on this thread by posting pictures of his boats. But then you say(Some one who does SOOOOOOOOOO many boats should have a few of THEIRown to show us.) Maybe you didnt realize it as you were typing, but you COMPLETELY contradicted yourself. And on top of that, you are advertizing YOURSELF by saying When u get bored u can always come to my utube and see some of my boats .......... THATIOWNANDIBUILT ... only a millon + hits ........... HOWABOUTU???[/b] You see what I mean right? And trust me, I really hate internet drama BS like this, but what you said really stuck out to me, as being downright silly, overzealous, and soooooo unnessary. Also, I really don't see the problem in posting pictures that help the builder. Maybe I'm the crazy one.


Back to wantariva, I think the general consensus is that you will be much more satisfied putting those motors in a bigger hull. Say 84inch or larger. Also, wantariva where do you run? I could see the draw to the big heavy boat if you plan on doing offshore running in REALLY rough water, say from the wake of a real boat. However, on a nice calm lake, the quad engines will add so much weight and drag to it. It would be totally cool and awesome idleing, but I have a feeling you would be dissapointed as soon as you hit the throttle. I think an awesome setp would be to find a bigger hull, and do some really rough water running. The heavy weight will make the boat feel home in the white caps.

I don;t know how deep the gtx hull is, maybe you could run that in some real rough water with the quads. Even if you could, a big deep-v with a more agressive v I think would prove to be the best.
Hope you consider these thoughts my friend
~Nikko

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