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Old 07-10-2014, 06:56 AM
  #26
MATHO
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some updates..... I think the design is nearly ready, now we are able to shrink the data to the dedicated sizes 160cm & 300cm hull length
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Old 07-10-2014, 07:00 AM
  #27
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and here is the powertrain which will be installed into the 160cm size.
New designed gearbox with 4 counter rotating outputs, type 1 with everywhere 1:1, type 2 with an overdrive of 16% of the 2 outside outputs. Electric starter on an idea of Dieter Just / Germany (he has this style on his RAT HOUSE, pls. see my page). PowerSpark....as usual. Currently I am constructing the exhaust manifolds / headers.
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Old 07-10-2014, 01:08 PM
  #28
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I envy all you guys, This has been an interesting post so far, I have not seen toys to be this huge so far. I have my v24 that I have installed the Zenoah 26pum from bonzi boat performance, but after all these small chats I am so wanting to have something like this in my garage. WoW
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Old 07-10-2014, 01:32 PM
  #29
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looking impressive thomas, is werner doing the gearboxes? why the overspeed on the two outside? are you thinking on 2 different pitches of props?
looking forward to more posts mate.
regards mick.
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Old 07-10-2014, 09:59 PM
  #30
MATHO
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Mick,

Werner will not produce this type of gearbox. I do not know whether I's produce or not.
Overdrive at the oustside props: these props are not as deep in the water as the inside ones, they have less resistance. I thought I could use the same prop size as at the insiders if the revs are a bit higher...
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Old 07-11-2014, 12:51 AM
  #31
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i would have thought a prop with a little less pitch on the outside drives would be in order, that way you would be putting a little less strain on the driveline? like the idea, very interesting to see how it all works out.
take care
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Old 08-15-2014, 09:44 PM
  #32
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Hey Thomas,
you still doing this project?
cheers mick
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Old 08-15-2014, 11:41 PM
  #33
MATHO
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Hello Mick,

currently we are investigating the costs (also shipping costs) for the complete 3m kit. When / if I have all data, I can tell a sales price and then I will see what will happen.
My main issue are the extreme shipping costs of the molds and the kits, but one of my neighbors is working in a shipper company, maybe I will get some cost reduction help.

Thomas
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Old 08-18-2014, 03:28 AM
  #34
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I think there are a lot more guys that would love to have one then will foot the bill, But for the guy that will I do not think the cost of shipping will be a issue,Matho any one can see you are very good at what you do and you love it,There will be some that will pay for it, the rest of us will just wish we had one.I know Bob Violet that makes jets and years ago he set the bar very high, he was a air traffic controller and said when he started making models he was not going to take a cut in pay.I DO NOT THINK HE HAS. I think if you make this happen you will do well and bring a whole new level to model boating.
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Old 08-19-2014, 03:05 AM
  #35
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Thomas, I tend to agree with Tom, If you have a well built quality kit that no one else is doing then the customers will be prepared to pay what ever the shipping costs and kit costs that are to be paid for just to get hold of it.
I hope we get to see this project come to fruition.
I am sure if anyone can find a way , you can.
Regards Mick
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Old 08-28-2014, 09:25 PM
  #36
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Just look how many hpr and mhz hugs sell over here the guys willing to pay get to play quality will sell a boat
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Old 09-04-2014, 12:02 AM
  #37
MATHO
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News of 3mCESA (the big one):
we are ableto produce the hull parts with vacuum technology which will create less weightand more stiffness because the resin will be better soaked into the layers(multiaxial).
Weight losswill be around 30% compared to the well known hand layer method.
Within nextweeks we will prepare the CAD data of the single parts, then the milling maystart

News of the1.6m CESA (the small one):
thisproject will be the next but with a different method, the plugs will be made inAustralia.
Currently Iam thinking about the negatives, the production method will be the hand layermethod.

Keep youinformed….
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Old 09-04-2014, 12:14 AM
  #38
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When using hand layup if you wish to save weight you can simply use a vaccum bag and use less resin.
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Old 09-04-2014, 02:59 AM
  #39
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Im glad this project is not going to get shelved Thomas,
I am in agreement with you on the infusion process, this not only saves weight but also time, the human mistake factor too. Little more messing around creating the bags , but well worth it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7BogBB0NI8

I am playing around with this process, using silicone bags, less mess, less setting up and reusuable.... all good so far.
Lite RTM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTsXKGUdtCE
requires a lot of skill in making the Male mold, plus laying down the Reinforcement in the correct layering is absolutely critical, too thick and you risk getting dry spots, too thin and you risk closing up the mold.

Least the silicone bags have a fair bit of flexibility. Of course using normal bags is fine too.

Just my two cents.....
Regards Mick
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Old 09-04-2014, 04:19 AM
  #40
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the guy who will perform this method for the big one is working as a CF-specialist in a company which produces wings for military aircrafts...... and it is a difference to use this
method at a 1.0 meter hull or at a 3.0m hull...... you must have the correct knowledge and equipment

Mick: I will keep you informed and I have never thought to cancel the project. You are in!!
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Old 09-04-2014, 04:32 AM
  #41
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well good luck

Last edited by martno1fan; 09-10-2014 at 02:08 PM.
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Old 09-04-2014, 04:43 AM
  #42
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Hi Mart,

I have decided to go this way. We will see when the first hull comes out or: just look and wonder....... if we'd to reinforce: we will do that for sure.
This boat will be absolutely awesome and I do not want to sell any bad quality..... my plan is to drive to the fabrication site (approx 1200km distance) when
these guys are ready to produce.... quality insurance......
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Old 09-04-2014, 04:50 AM
  #43
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Hi Matho,its a massive project and i wish you luck with it.
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Old 09-04-2014, 05:40 PM
  #44
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Awesome project. I'm looking forward to hear more about it.
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Old 09-04-2014, 06:08 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martno1fan View Post
I dont agree about infusion as its proven its weaker than hand laying using normal good quality epoxy and then bagging which is much more impact resistant also,you need to use a thinned down resin with infusion which in itself isnt as strong as normal epoxy so for that reason bagging is better.
The rtm method is very expensive,male moulds are not so hard once you have the female, been there done it lol.Still havent found a reason to change all my moulds to this process though but for Mathos projects it might be an idea but very costly to build the tooling.Im currently building hulls using vinylester resin and this material i like.
Mart - I have been building custom prosthetic limbs using vacuum infusion for almost 25 years. I am just not understanding how you come up with this process producing a weaker part. We produce parts that withstand all kinds of abuse - thousands of reps over years of service without failure. I would never consider "hand laying". I doubt the aerospace industry would try it either.

Vacuum is by far the best way to "clamp" the layup and resin in place over a mold. It's biggest advantage is ensuring there is not excessive resin in the lay up and there are no air voids which result in a weakened part..

As far as Thomas's project goes, there will indeed be more start up costs but in the end his product will be more consistent and I would venture to guess far less waste from bad pulls. I agree that the process is expensive but to intimate that hand laminating is superior is just plain wrong. JMO
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