Octane of fuel to use?
11-07-2015, 05:48 PM
#26
curious ?? As I see all these comments (WOW) - what is this boat that comes with a Air Cooled engine?
The "Boat guys" here who answered were right on the money at 8 once per gallon., but then I'm sure most were refering to 'water cooled' engines which we run in most of our boats.. Many of the lower cost (imports) and older boats ran air cooled - not to many "Boats" run air cooled engines now days..
I don't see a lot of G26 boats so curious to see mounting etc. I'd like to see your boat set up? How about a picture of your boat if you could please ?
And as to "It's new so it must be able to use ethonal" - wrong . The zenoah uses carbs - its a PROVEN (many times) that alcohol /ethonal damages the internal carb rubber over time - like diaphrams.
From G26 Instruction manual -
Any way have fun. Sounds like you made your choices.
Like I said from start - not all oils/gas are compatable and using a 'premix' and adding oil may work or may not.
Daniel Place has a video on gas / oil mixing - maybe he will post it.
Have Fun
Randy
The "Boat guys" here who answered were right on the money at 8 once per gallon., but then I'm sure most were refering to 'water cooled' engines which we run in most of our boats.. Many of the lower cost (imports) and older boats ran air cooled - not to many "Boats" run air cooled engines now days..
I don't see a lot of G26 boats so curious to see mounting etc. I'd like to see your boat set up? How about a picture of your boat if you could please ?
And as to "It's new so it must be able to use ethonal" - wrong . The zenoah uses carbs - its a PROVEN (many times) that alcohol /ethonal damages the internal carb rubber over time - like diaphrams.
From G26 Instruction manual -
Any way have fun. Sounds like you made your choices.
Like I said from start - not all oils/gas are compatable and using a 'premix' and adding oil may work or may not.
Daniel Place has a video on gas / oil mixing - maybe he will post it.
Have Fun
Randy
Last edited by mistycreekboats; 11-07-2015 at 06:28 PM. Reason: add pic from G26 manual
11-07-2015, 07:16 PM
#27
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You are running an air cooled aircraft engine so run the fuel designed for it. 100LL I have been using this combination in everything from DLE's to VVRC's and it works the best. 100LL av fuel from the airport. Either Lucas or Redline racing 2stroke oil, and a small dash of marvel mystery oil on top of your regular mixture. Don't ever use regular 2 stroke oils that you would use in chainsaws and other lawn equipment, that is just asking for trouble.. I can't tell you how many guys swear by it but have nothing but problems using it. With 100LL and racing 2 stroke oils, the motors run cooler, stronger, and don't get buildup, your seals and diaphragms don't dry out, or have problems with water in the fuel due to ethanol. The LL in 100LL serves many purposes. It helps cool, helps lubricate, and helps with timing, that is why it is used in full scale planes. Mix your 100LL with your oil to the ratio you need, add a splash of Marvel Mystery oil, and fly away. You won't regret it and your motors will thank you with a long life.
Last edited by Desertlakesflying; 11-07-2015 at 07:22 PM.
11-07-2015, 07:25 PM
#28
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Pump Gas 87- 89 octane with 10% ethanol i have been using it for years The key is use a good name brand two cycle oil Like Husqvarna or Stihl chainsaw or even Klotz oil. Those oils are design to work under a load in harsh conditions and ran at 50:1 ratio .People tell me all the time that the carburetor diaphragms will dry up that is true but its not because of the ethanol its just with age Walbro and Tillotson recommend to put a carb kit once per season meaning every 12 month which no one that i know of does, I have carbs that are five to ten years old and never touched them and i attribute that to running a good grade 2 Cycle oil.
11-07-2015, 10:52 PM
#29
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Its a G26. They are built like tanks and will run on just about anything. Simple answer is read the manual, run regular with somewhere between 32:1 and 50:1 of any good quality two stroke oil.
There is very little difference in energy content between fuels. Higher octane blends burn slower and this helps prevent detonation in high compression engines with aggressive timing. The Zenoah is timed for regular so as mentioned above anything higher (premium, race gas or avgas) will actually reduce power slightly.
Its also been proven they run just fine on Coleman camper fuel (a.k.a white gas) which is 55 octane naphtha. Showing that the octane rating really is not critical at all. the benefit as mentioned is it doesn't smell. the downside is its $10+ a gallon so you might as well be paying for nitro. I say dont bother unless you keep your plane in the living room.
Some guys run a100LL AVGAS claiming its cleaner and last longer. It does last longer, but that has nothing to do with ethanol, it is because it has less additives and is refined better for a more consistent vapor pressure (important so your Cessna doesn't experience vapor lock at 12,000ft). You aren't flying a 360 cubic inch 4 stroke lycoming powered Cessna at 12,000ft... you running a 1.6ci two stroke in a boat - so again not worth it unless you have a need to keep your gas 2+ years before you burn it. Downsides - its expensive and you will be breathing lead fumes.
Some guys will tell you to avoid ethanol. Al the scare is blown way out of proportion. It does not cause gumming (its acutally causes less gumming than old gas since the ethanol is a strong solvent/detergent) and the rubber parts in modern engines have been tethanol safe for years.
Some guys will even tell you ehtanol causes water problems... But what do we do to solve water problems? We add dyrygas. Go read the label and see what the active ingredient is in drygas
The premixed gas in a can is like bottled water. Stick something in a can with a flashy label and people magically forget they can get it elsewhere for free/cheap.
I run 87 octane E10 pump gas mixed 32:1 with Penzoil air cooled two stroke mix (conventional). This is the most popular fuel mix in the ultralight community - these guys trust their life on it and its cheap, runs me about $3 a gallon oil included right now. Ive been running this mix over 10 years on my DA, both my heli Zenoahs (that run 12-13k rpm sustained), my chainsaw, and my weedeaster. Havent killed an engine yet.
So once again, save your money, run straight regular from the pump with 32:1 and be happy about all the cash you saved.
There is very little difference in energy content between fuels. Higher octane blends burn slower and this helps prevent detonation in high compression engines with aggressive timing. The Zenoah is timed for regular so as mentioned above anything higher (premium, race gas or avgas) will actually reduce power slightly.
Its also been proven they run just fine on Coleman camper fuel (a.k.a white gas) which is 55 octane naphtha. Showing that the octane rating really is not critical at all. the benefit as mentioned is it doesn't smell. the downside is its $10+ a gallon so you might as well be paying for nitro. I say dont bother unless you keep your plane in the living room.
Some guys run a100LL AVGAS claiming its cleaner and last longer. It does last longer, but that has nothing to do with ethanol, it is because it has less additives and is refined better for a more consistent vapor pressure (important so your Cessna doesn't experience vapor lock at 12,000ft). You aren't flying a 360 cubic inch 4 stroke lycoming powered Cessna at 12,000ft... you running a 1.6ci two stroke in a boat - so again not worth it unless you have a need to keep your gas 2+ years before you burn it. Downsides - its expensive and you will be breathing lead fumes.
Some guys will tell you to avoid ethanol. Al the scare is blown way out of proportion. It does not cause gumming (its acutally causes less gumming than old gas since the ethanol is a strong solvent/detergent) and the rubber parts in modern engines have been tethanol safe for years.
Some guys will even tell you ehtanol causes water problems... But what do we do to solve water problems? We add dyrygas. Go read the label and see what the active ingredient is in drygas
The premixed gas in a can is like bottled water. Stick something in a can with a flashy label and people magically forget they can get it elsewhere for free/cheap.
I run 87 octane E10 pump gas mixed 32:1 with Penzoil air cooled two stroke mix (conventional). This is the most popular fuel mix in the ultralight community - these guys trust their life on it and its cheap, runs me about $3 a gallon oil included right now. Ive been running this mix over 10 years on my DA, both my heli Zenoahs (that run 12-13k rpm sustained), my chainsaw, and my weedeaster. Havent killed an engine yet.
So once again, save your money, run straight regular from the pump with 32:1 and be happy about all the cash you saved.
I've ran 87 for years and works great no matter the brand DA, 3W, DLE, ZENOAH.
New engine gets Pennzoil 32-1
Engines after break in gets redline 40-1
11-08-2015, 06:48 AM
#32
32:1 will be fine for break in, there is no need to go to a richer mixture it will only foul your spark plug quicker and slow down the break in process. True Fuel is great but it is too expensive and so is Coleman fuel. I agree that ethanol free is the best but the diaphragms today will run fine with ethanol. Av gas is ok too but again you pay a premium for it plus it is a "hotter" fuel and with improper needle settings you run a risk of damaging your engine. Not all municipal airports will sell av gas to just someone walking in with a gas can. What i have found to be my preference is mid grade car gas, (without ethanol if i can find it) and Red Line oil mixed at 40:1. Red Line is a very superior oil which i start at 40:1 at break in and never change.
11-08-2015, 07:15 AM
#33
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I have been using the non oxygenated fuel sold at the local Fleet Farm here in Minnesota.
The obtain of this gas is always 92. I use this with Stihl synthetic.
The higher obtain doesn't have any noticeable effect on engine performance.
Greg
The obtain of this gas is always 92. I use this with Stihl synthetic.
The higher obtain doesn't have any noticeable effect on engine performance.
Greg
11-08-2015, 07:43 AM
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11-08-2015, 09:12 AM
#35
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You are running an air cooled aircraft engine so run the fuel designed for it. 100LL I have been using this combination in everything from DLE's to VVRC's and it works the best. 100LL av fuel from the airport. Either Lucas or Redline racing 2stroke oil, and a small dash of marvel mystery oil on top of your regular mixture. Don't ever use regular 2 stroke oils that you would use in chainsaws and other lawn equipment, that is just asking for trouble.. I can't tell you how many guys swear by it but have nothing but problems using it. With 100LL and racing 2 stroke oils, the motors run cooler, stronger, and don't get buildup, your seals and diaphragms don't dry out, or have problems with water in the fuel due to ethanol. The LL in 100LL serves many purposes. It helps cool, helps lubricate, and helps with timing, that is why it is used in full scale planes. Mix your 100LL with your oil to the ratio you need, add a splash of Marvel Mystery oil, and fly away. You won't regret it and your motors will thank you with a long life.
11-08-2015, 11:24 AM
#36
interesting reading - I'm still at a loss why run a lower rpm / heavier Air cooled engine in a boat. Most 'boat guys' run boat engines eg. water cooled. So our (water cooled / higher rpm engines) use a gas/oil mixture is a little diff than all the buggys and planes. Which is why the 'boat guys' comments are little diff than the plane / buggy guys here.
Cheers - Good luck
It's about fun so be safe and take a way to rescue your boat if it stalls. Don't swim for it - take a rod with small tennis ball (to cast / retrive) or at least a small boat.
Randy
Cheers - Good luck
It's about fun so be safe and take a way to rescue your boat if it stalls. Don't swim for it - take a rod with small tennis ball (to cast / retrive) or at least a small boat.
Randy
11-08-2015, 11:43 AM
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oops - this post is off-topic. Sorry.
Last edited by oliveDrab; 11-08-2015 at 05:59 PM.
11-08-2015, 02:39 PM
#38
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interesting reading - I'm still at a loss why run a lower rpm / heavier Air cooled engine in a boat. Most 'boat guys' run boat engines eg. water cooled. So our (water cooled / higher rpm engines) use a gas/oil mixture is a little diff than all the buggys and planes. Which is why the 'boat guys' comments are little diff than the plane / buggy guys here.
Cheers - Good luck
It's about fun so be safe and take a way to rescue your boat if it stalls. Don't swim for it - take a rod with small tennis ball (to cast / retrive) or at least a small boat.
Randy
Cheers - Good luck
It's about fun so be safe and take a way to rescue your boat if it stalls. Don't swim for it - take a rod with small tennis ball (to cast / retrive) or at least a small boat.
Randy
The engine in the boat is water cooler, water pump/clutch, etc. I am going to run the 4-cycle TruFuel with the Redline oil that I will add. Like another mentioned everyone seems to have their own preferences but there does seem to be generalities which help narrow it down. I did not want to run E10, and since I know I will not be burning tons of fuel through it due to low usage time the added cost for TruFuel or 100LL does not really bother me or make a huge financial impact.
Great call on the fishing pole with the tennis balls to get it though! The 1st thing you see on this site (boating) is the dangers of swimming after them (good job to the mods on that). I might see if I can leave a small skiff by the lake with approval of someone as well.
I will not have a change to run everything until next weekend - so now I just wait!
11-09-2015, 01:52 AM
#39
Like Randy - I am at a loss as to why all the suggestions from plane guys in the boat forum about experiences with their planes. No doubt great advice for an aircooled motor in a different environment but Marine Zenoahs run 17000+rpm and in a boat they are basically under full load the whole time. A very different and harsh environment for the motor.
The myth about fouling spark plugs is just not much a reality - neither is the smoke. My plug is dry when pulled - and clean because as mentioned earlier - I normally use camp fuel. Go to any club race and I doubt you will find anyone running much less than 20:1 - and no one venturing into the 40:1 or 50:1 - just dangerous territory (and less power)
Personally I have been using Maxima Castor 927 without a hitch - around 18:1 - 20:1. It is a low smoke oil and castor has a reasonable smell.
Ultimately - run the blend that makes the most sense to you but know this - I have never heard anyone on the side of the lake saying "I wish I used less oil"
The myth about fouling spark plugs is just not much a reality - neither is the smoke. My plug is dry when pulled - and clean because as mentioned earlier - I normally use camp fuel. Go to any club race and I doubt you will find anyone running much less than 20:1 - and no one venturing into the 40:1 or 50:1 - just dangerous territory (and less power)
Personally I have been using Maxima Castor 927 without a hitch - around 18:1 - 20:1. It is a low smoke oil and castor has a reasonable smell.
Ultimately - run the blend that makes the most sense to you but know this - I have never heard anyone on the side of the lake saying "I wish I used less oil"
11-09-2015, 08:31 AM
#41
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Why in the world would someone wanna run camp fuel in their engine? Last time I checked the stuff only has like 60 octane in it and its meant to be burnt in a stove, two, what kind of production standards go into making it. I.E. Ingredients or filtering? Read the manual and follow what it says. With their recommendations and "correctly" tuned = happy and long running engine.
11-09-2015, 12:14 PM
#42
Pop, it's close to 55 Octane. No gas smell, cleaner burning as it doesn't have the additives that gas does, it has a very long shelf life, it won't ruin diaphragms from ethanol and the list goes on. No need to change the carb settings. There are no downsides except for the price, up here around $13.00 a gallon at Wal-mart. I switched over and not looking back.
I run 8 oz. of oil to a gallon as synthetic 2-stroke mix comes in 16 oz. bottles so a bottle will do 2 gallons. Some will run 10 oz. to a gallon to be on the safe side.
Zenoah recommends 87 Octane, not anything higher as they were designed to run best on that.
I run 8 oz. of oil to a gallon as synthetic 2-stroke mix comes in 16 oz. bottles so a bottle will do 2 gallons. Some will run 10 oz. to a gallon to be on the safe side.
Zenoah recommends 87 Octane, not anything higher as they were designed to run best on that.
11-09-2015, 07:47 PM
#44
Only way the wife would allow the boats in the house was with camp fuel. Heck - she will even buy it for me. No smell at all and it has a shelf life of more than a year which is never a bad thing. Price is darn high at the moment - I remember complaining when it hit $5 a gallon. But you do get a great metal can free with every gallon I guess!!! I am not pushing camp fuel for all to use - it is a personal preference. But I do push a proper oil mix!!
11-10-2015, 04:48 AM
#45
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Canned quarts of fuel is a expensive way to buy fuel.
$20 a gallon for basically REC 90 gas that costs at $2.35 a gallon right now. So the 6 cans make 1.5 gallons. $4 worth of fuel for $30-$35.
You will find more quality 2T synthetics designed for high rpm two strokes at the local cycle shop.
Run 8-10 oz for high performance marine engine. Warm it up, check it for water flow and if she is pulling fine run it like you intend to drive it. It is all needle and roller bearing so what is to break in.
The ring will transverse the port openings more gracefully at high speed than at low speed.
$20 a gallon for basically REC 90 gas that costs at $2.35 a gallon right now. So the 6 cans make 1.5 gallons. $4 worth of fuel for $30-$35.
You will find more quality 2T synthetics designed for high rpm two strokes at the local cycle shop.
Run 8-10 oz for high performance marine engine. Warm it up, check it for water flow and if she is pulling fine run it like you intend to drive it. It is all needle and roller bearing so what is to break in.
The ring will transverse the port openings more gracefully at high speed than at low speed.
Last edited by danielplace; 11-10-2015 at 04:51 AM.
11-13-2015, 09:19 AM
#46
.
The engine in the boat is water cooler, water pump/clutch, etc. I am going to run the 4-cycle TruFuel with the Redline oil that I will add. Like another mentioned everyone seems to have their own preferences but there does seem to be generalities which help narrow it down. I did not want to run E10, and since I know I will not be burning tons of fuel through it due to low usage time the added cost for TruFuel or 100LL does not really bother me or make a huge financial impact.
Great call on the fishing pole with the tennis balls to get it though! The 1st thing you see on this site (boating) is the dangers of swimming after them (good job to the mods on that). I might see if I can leave a small skiff by the lake with approval of someone as well.
I will not have a change to run everything until next weekend - so now I just wait!
The engine in the boat is water cooler, water pump/clutch, etc. I am going to run the 4-cycle TruFuel with the Redline oil that I will add. Like another mentioned everyone seems to have their own preferences but there does seem to be generalities which help narrow it down. I did not want to run E10, and since I know I will not be burning tons of fuel through it due to low usage time the added cost for TruFuel or 100LL does not really bother me or make a huge financial impact.
Great call on the fishing pole with the tennis balls to get it though! The 1st thing you see on this site (boating) is the dangers of swimming after them (good job to the mods on that). I might see if I can leave a small skiff by the lake with approval of someone as well.
I will not have a change to run everything until next weekend - so now I just wait!
Have fun - we always get rescue boat \ rod out before a boat ever goes in water.
Randy
