aloushi

My Feedback: (13)

anyone know the proper steps to follow after zenoah 2 cycle was submerged for about 2 minutes? After drying it off all the electronics survived and are working perfect but I noticed no spark on plug, does that mean the plug went bad or is it something else? Thank you

crapshooter

the coil or coils could be abit wet inside somewhere so i would be leaving them in the sun for atleast 1 day so they have a good chance to dry out. now you need to make sure all water is out of the engine / crankcase and fuel tank i might add. remove the sparkplug and fill up the engine with some Kerosene or petrol , give a good shake and leave up side down to drain. pull the engine over a few times with no sparkplug fitted and still upo side down as this will help get rid of any excess petrol etc etc , what you need to take a close look at is if the engine sucked in water when running there is a good chance the crankshaft is slightly twisted [ out of true ] this is due you water and compression as water does not compress so something has to break or give and the majority of time it is the crankshaft or the conrod or the flywheels woodruff key which holds the flywheel in position with the crankshaft. if the coils are found to be ok then you need to check the flywheel as this will supply no spark if its out of time [ timing ] also check to make sure the collet on the end of crankshaft where the drive shaft fits into does not wobble when you pull the engine over , if it does you have a out of true crankshaft. maybe try another sparkplug too.

Hydro Junkie

I have to agree. If the engine sucked in any water, it could have a damaged crankshaft or conrod. I'd try a new spark plug, held against the outside of the case and pull the engine over. If you don't get a spark, start checking everything electrical again. If everything checks out, it's time to pull the jug and take a closer look at the crank

aloushi

My Feedback: (13)

Ok thank you guys very much,, Your information is very helpful,, I'll let you guys know what I come up with in the next few days

Got RPM

It is probably too late now, but in the future: you don't want to flush gasoline through the engine to "dry it out". Pour in a cup of denatured alcohol instead, this actually absorbs the water which gasoline, kerosene etc. does not do. The latter just moves it around. The area where the water will do the most damage if not removed is rust in the bearings. If these rust, then they must be replaced. Alcohol will also help to dry out the coil. Get the alcohol at the drug store, find the 90% or 95% concentration, this costs a bit more but will absorb much more water.


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crapshooter

And don,t drink it all at once.

danielplace

Many people flip boats all day everyday and they are upside down for longer than 2 minutes usually. You simply take the plug out and flip the boat upside down and pull the starter until the water is all out flip it over and reinstall the plug and start it up. I doubt you lost your spark from 2 minutes under water. You just can't see the spark in day light very well. It just isn't running because you haven't got the water out and it keeps getting in the sparkplug and shorting it out. You can restart a engine that was submerged in less that 30 seconds if you know what to do.

Drug stores usually only carry isopropyl alcohol. Denatured alcohol you would usually find at hardware stores. Denatured alcohol is just ethanol. No need for either as you need to get it running as quick as you can and run it for at least 10 minutes to cook the water out of the engine.

As mentioned if the engine wasn't completely shut down at zero rpm with the carb slammed shut then you may have destroyed the engine. Water ingestion has the force of a sledge hammer trying to take the jug off the block and you almost certainly bent the crank if it went in running. Once you hydro lock one it may still run and even run good but it will blow up very soon as it imprints the needles into the soft Zenoah rod journals and it flat spots all the needle bearings and damages the ball bearings also.

If you still have a Champion plug in it you should change to a NGK because the Champion will come apart and destroy the engine.

aloushi

My Feedback: (13)

I was able to start the engine only when removing the spark plug and putting a few drops of fuel through the hole and then it would shut off after a couple seconds. I did purchase a couple NGK spark plugs from oriley's auto parts (they were under $3 each) but the old one was still working fine too. So here's my big concern, with the spark plug out I pull the starter several times (maybe 10-15 times) then it gets hard to pull for about 2 or 3 pulls then it gets easy again. What could be causing that when the spark plug is not screwed in? Tomorrow I will flip the boat upside down and pull it to get any remaining water out. Should I start looking for another engine or can anyone please direct me to a repair kit. Thanks all for your help and replies.

crapshooter

well you know you have ignition from the coils if you get a quick fire up after adding a drop of fuel on the piston crown. have you removed all fuel from the fuel tank / fuel lines ? make sure the engines crankcase is completely dry from any fuel / water. also you might have to undo the 4 bolts that hold the pull starter on and remove pullstarter to check its working condition as this could possibly be causing the hard to pullover issue your having, just see if pulling this starter over as many times causes any binding like your getting when its fitted to engine, you never know. check to make sure the flywheel is nice and tight on the shaft as well.

Hydro Junkie

I'm wondering if the carb got damaged somehow. To start, the engine needs three things:
1) Fuel, something we don't know if it's getting
2) Air, again something we don't know it's getting
3) Spark, something we do know it's getting or the fuel put on the piston wouldn't burn
All that said, if it's binding up, something is wrong mechanically. You might be money ahead at this point to send it in and get it checked out by someone that knows these engines

Ron Olson

My Feedback: (1)

When heat racing gas boats we don't have days to dry out an engine. They may sit submerged for a few minutes but once back onshore we're trying to get it fired up ASAP.
Pull the plug, flip it over and pull it a lot to get as much water out as possible. Replace the plug. I carry new spares pre-gapped to save time. I don't have time to mess around with a wet plug right then.
WD-40 can be your friend to get extra moisture out and to help re-fire it.

danielplace

On a rough day a person might find themselves upside down a half dozen times. You have to learn the technique for starting a engine full of water. There is no time to waste as rust starts very quickly and it will cause a bearing to fail and when that happens the entire engine is trashed as the metal released will destroy the piston and cylinder.
You can't hardly get it dry of water except to run in hard for at least 10 minutes after getting it running and cook the water out. It takes a while even at full temperature because water gets all behind the bearings and in the hollow backside of the rubber seals and in the seals tension spring and is isolated from heat because of the rubber it is made of.

aloushi

My Feedback: (13)

so I ended up taking the engine out of the boat and completely disassembling it, there was still a little fluid in there that appears to be fuel mixed with water. I used alcohol to clean everything along with WD40. The binding issue was from the bearings but now they are spinning freely, I believe there is some rust that did begin to develop because the fluid that I initially found has a hint of that rustic look to it. As of now everything looks brand new and I'm just waiting on a piston head gasket to arrive because I ripped the old one. Besides WD40 should I lube the bearings or anything else I can do before reassembling it? I hope it's not toast at this point. I've been flying Helis and planes for many years and this BlackJack 55 is my very first boat which I got to enjoy every bit of 30 seconds with it before I flipped it and If you guys wanna laugh be my guest lol I flipped the kayak when retrieving the boat and to make matters worse my iPhone and left sandal went into the lake as well. In a nut shell my first rc boat experience didn't go as planned lol, and now I understand why this is the deadliest rc hobby.

danielplace

Oh man I feel for you. One of those days.

Did you split the cases and have the crank out where you could really see the main bearings ?
If you saw orange/red in the mix it is too late. Especially if it was hanging up before you cleaned them. That tells you they are completely shot. The bearings will fail in no time if you just reassemble and run it again. They will need to be replaced and likely the crank and wrist pin and bearing. Possible the crank survived as it is usually the mains that rust the fastest.

crapshooter

You need to buy a set of engine bearings and seals plus a crankcase gasket., these are not expensive .

danielplace

Yes Zenoah bearing are real cheap but you have to install them correctly or you will have issues.
I have plenty of Zenoah bearings brand new take outs because they can't be used in modified engines as they are garbage and will absolutely fail if it is making any power.
The stock bearings Zenoah uses used to be good but these bearings are not what they used to put in them.
They have to be removed by heating the case and reinstalled by heating it again and using a tool that keeps the outer races dead nut parallel to each other. If you just bottom them out in their bores they will not be straight facing each other squarely and it will not run on all the balls all the time and cause premature failure.

crapshooter

Daniel, doesn,t the crankcase halves have stops so the bearing will only go in so far before it contacts the stop ? if the bearing is seated in nice and square to the case stop surely the bearing will be true in its housing. i personally have allways used a good fitting socket that will only make contact to the outer bearing housing plus the good old kitchen oven for heating up the cases. also when buying new bearings for the crankcase make sure the inner side dust / grease covers are removed so engine oil in the fuel can lubricate the bearings, failing to do this will result in a failed / dry bearing.

danielplace

Yes of course. One goes in and bottoms out in the casting where it necks down and takes a smaller seal on the flywheel side. The other bottoms against a circlip in a groove in the bore. Yea they will be true to the bore of that side of the case but never true to each other once the case is assembled.

If you just bottom against these and expect it to be true to the other side you are mistaken. If you want them installed straight they have to be installed while the cases are assembled and put in with a tool or the outer races will not be square to each other. It is night and day difference compared to bottoming them in their bores each half done seperatly and expecting them to be square and parallel to each other. When they are straight to each other the bearings spin true and all the balls are contacting 360°.

The tool uses a collar in the middle of a hardened straight shaft that each bearing is slid on and installed in the case and bolted together then that pushes each in ensuring that each bearing is 100% true to the other. If you do a four bearing case without the tool then a straight shaft can barely be slid through without binding in the bearings inner races. Use the tool to install all four and the shaft will slide through freely that pretty much answers the question of whether they are straight by just installing them by pushing them in their bores, they aren't even close. That is RCMK and the RCMK cases are truer than Zenoah's are. You can hardly put four bearings in the Zenoah case as they are too far out of alignment.

aloushi

My Feedback: (13)

thanks for all the info guys,, as of now I have the front case and cylinder head off along with the pull starter assembly, I'm not sure if I can replace the bearings myself and get them seated properly so I might have to wait until I can cough up $350 for a new engine which won't be for some time or if it's possible to send it in to zenoah and have them service it might be a better option for me? what you guys think?

crapshooter

why don,t you replace the bearings yourself ? not sure how much this special bearing tool costs as i,ve never used one when replacing bearings but you can always use the old school hammer and socket tap tap method along with some oven heat to pre heat the cases. surely you don,t need to buy another engine just cause the bearings are shot.

Hydro Junkie

Since Daniel knows what he's doing, IF you ask him really nice, he might do it for you or tell you where you can buy that alignment tool so you can do it your self. I have to agree with crapshooter, there's no need to spend the cash on a new engine. If all you need is bearings, it's a lot cheaper to replace them than to buy a whole engine

danielplace

Zenoah doesn't do repairs and it would be cost prohibitive to ship it to Japan and back. I sent you a PM with my number.

Not sure if it sent. I checked my sent folder and it isn't there so I sent another and it isn't in sent folder either. ?????

aloushi

My Feedback: (13)

pretty please with cherry on top lol, will call you Saturday, I appreciate everything and can't wait to get this thing back in the water

Ron Olson

My Feedback: (1)

I don't know where you're at in Michigan but I'm sitting on a decent pile of Zenoah parts.
I have no idea where you're getting you Zen engines at but for $350.00 you can get one modded. Stock ones are $170.00 from Gizmo Motors.