Paul M

I was thinking that I'd fill it with a dowl and then glaze over with filler that way I'd have wood showing on the inside.

Here's some pics of the project so far. I moved the engine aft about another inch which places the plug right about where the scoop is. This put's the plug about 15 inches from the transom. If I leave it here I won't have to cut a hole for the plug, it'll stick up where the scoop is.

I plan to leave the servos outside the radio box. I bought some that dielectric stuff to coat them with.

If anybody has any suggestions let me know.

Hey Frog, get any of your stuff yet?

lzvagias

that is probably the best way especially if you need to redrill real close to that hole. it gives the screw some thing to grab hold of in the redrilled holed. golf tees work well too, just make sure you use a little epoxy on it to help keep it from soaking up water.

i don't know much about cats so i have to ask, that is where they suggested you mount that motor? is that motor alot bigger than a zen and dstorting my perception or is that where they said to put it? cause it seems really far back. i'm not implying its placed wrong, i'm just kinda surprised that its gotta be that far back especially as powerfull as it is. looks like a nice hull though and looking forward to more pics!

sorry, i just reread what you said about the motor position. o.k., party on![sm=tongue.gif]

dbryan

I use glass fiber and epoxy to patch holes in fiberglass. That way you don't get cracks around the hole. Just stick a piece of tape over the outside until it sets.

FROGMAN524

My Feedback: (5)

Nope, engine delivery monday. I was going to order the hull on monday because I found out that expresscraft is not open tommorow but looking at your hull pics I don't think the gel coat job they did looks that good. What do you think? I really want a cat but I might order the XXX instead. Motor's a little small though for that size a hull, like I said though, can be modded later. Pauls Power Boats look very nice on the gelcoat but they're in Germany otherwise I'd probably opt for their Warrior 35. I'm going to take a look around on Expresscraft's website tonight and figure out if which one I really want. Good luck on your boat project, Ken.

Paul M

The engine's got a huge cooling head. I know it looks like it's pretty far back, but if I go any farther forward the plug will be sticking out of the windshield. Don't be bashful about your opinion especially if you have run a few cats... it's a few more than I've run.

I do not have a suggested placement. If it was a Zen or a QD it would be no problem, but I don't think anyone is willing to venture a guess on this engine due to no experience... except wata

D - I think the glass is a better idea, but the dowl is sure alot easier and I'm incredibly lazy

Paul M

The gel coat's got a couple problems, but for the money for that size hull, I think it's a pretty good deal. You can't expect perfection for 350 bucks.

I think if I were you I'd get a smaller hull from aeromarine. I don't own a truck and if I didn't have this 35 I'd have bought a smaller hull. But that's milk already spilt.

lzvagias

glass does work well too. especially if you add cavisil to resin and get it a little thicker than vaseline, its very strong but its a little more brittle than doweling. i guess that theres more than one way to skin a cat!

paul- i don't want to mislead you, i have NO experience with cats i was just asking. you might cosider adding material to the bottom edge of the front of canopy, if it needs just a little bit of clearance. i dont know how it would look but you might not even notice and you could move motor forward a bit. just a thought.

FROGMAN524

My Feedback: (5)

Hey paul, I know that I can't expect perfection but I do want that big a hull or bigger. I'll probably end up getting the GTX because it has more freeboard than the cat and even though I'll give up a little speed the water I have to deal with forces me to get a large hull. I think that Freeboard is going to keep it dry on the inside and allow me to run in rougher water than the cat. I see the engine is mounted, how do you drill the holes for the mounts? I've never built a boat and can't figure out how to get a dremel or drill into the hull to drill. Thanks, Ken.

Sayonara

Ken,
Your killing me. I thought you had been down this road already once..... Trust me, I understand your position. Im sure ill decide 3 or 4 times before actually ordering. Wait, i have decided 3 or 4 times already. Still thinking..... DT

xxxboatworks

Paul,
I would set it up like it was a QD. I think your 30% is about right. It does look like the engine is a little too far aft by looking at the pics. Where are you measuring from? Keep in mind that the overhang on the hull has to be considered when measuring the CG. Regarding the open servos, you are on the right track with the liquid electrical tape. Just drop a tiny oring under the servo horn (with a dab of lube) and you will be fine. I have never had a problem running open servos.

FROGMAN524

My Feedback: (5)

WHy would you run open servos in the first place? Not enough room for radio box?

Paul- Yeah I know I've been down this road a few times but I'm now decided on the v hull because the pics I was seeing were of the finished boats buy expresscraft, they had a chance to paint over problems before they posted pics. No changing my mind now, I promise.

lzvagias

frog, the gtx is also an expresscraft and will probably have the same quality finish as the mti.

xxxboatworks

Ken,
The MTI hull does not have any "problems". It has a seamless joint that must me finished (sanded smooth) before it is painted. The GTX has a "shoe box lid" fit of the deck over the hull and does not require any further finishing. Most boats with a seamless seam between the hull and deck will need some prep work before you paint over the joint. The end result is a boat that looks very nice once the edge has been prepped. It is just kind of your choice. If either hull has any real "problem" I'm sure they will warrenty it. As a dealer for them, I did get one that had a slight blem and they took it back. Also, the MTI has more freeboard than the GTX and the GTx will be faster (given the same engine)

Paul M

Frog - The holes for the engine aren't drilled yet (thank goodness!) but when it is done you use an angular drill or since I don't have one, I'll use a little flex drive that I put into the drill chuck and will let me get down in there. I've used it before and it works pretty well.

RE- the open servos - it lets me put more padding around the pack and receiver and placing the servos is alot easier. Less holes in the box means it'll be less likely for water to get to the receiver.

It seems like when I talked to Tom he said the MTI would be a more stable platform, but that was when I was thinking of buying a phantom since it was cheaper.

I've never seen the MHZ hulls , but it seems like nobody's isn't going to require some finish work before priming and painting?

XXX - the reference point I was told to use is the prop rather than the transom or back of the boat. Ok here's the question, what effect does cg have on the ride of a cat. IE if the CG is too far aft what happens or too far towards the bow? I have heard if it is too far aft the boat gets squirrlly in turns.

Could the further aft CG recommendation have anything to do with the powerband of the Mathe (ie lower power and torque at lower RPM?)

I know that when I talked to Tom at Expresscraft about his experience with the Mathes- I think he set the cat up like a QD and had issues with the engine staying on pipe which kinda makes sense because the Mathe guy is telling me to set it up with the balance at 28% or less add add 2 lbs in the bow. I wouldn't be asking but even though I am new, it still seems alot aft to me as well.

Sayonara

Ken - Once I think you and Raj have me convinced of the MTI (over the MHZ and Thunderbolt) you have to go confusing me agian.....[&o]

Raj - I think you have a good point. Im sure if there is a "blem" expresscraft would certainly step-in and help out. Also, you make a good point about the "shoebox" deck/hull joint. I have an Aeromarine Challanger that has that type of joint and I really dislike the looks of it. Now, the GTX is a far supperior boat for sure but I dont think I would like that type of joint. I was not aware that there would be any prep work prior to finish painting the hull. Thats just my inexperience. How much do you charge to complete this and give the boat just a solid base coat? or since I live so close to Mark Marion of Michigan (248-867-2440) should I discuss this with him? Any ideas what this would cost?

Here are some pictures of the "shoebox" fit on my Challanger - disregard how dirty it is. Once I finish rebuilding the motor, im cleaning it up and having it painted.

xxxboatworks

Paul, I the know the boat tom is talking about.... the reason that Mathe fell off the pipe was a different reason (nothing to do with the CG). It had some other issues that we finally worked out. (carb related)
As far as CG goes, I can tell you that the MTI is not too picky. It is a very forgiving hull. When you say the plug is 15" from the transom, do you mean the actual transom or the overhang? Having the cg too far aft will make a slightly faster boat that is hard to control. I'll take some measurements from the MTI I built and let you know
Regarding quality, the higher end hulls tend to be better, but not always. I have had more than one MHZ hull that had some problems (like the hatch would not sit properly on the deck...common problem)

Ken, use a dremel tool with a 90 degree attachment., it's the only way to really get into the tight spaces. Well worth the investment.

xxxboatworks

DT,
Take it to Mark and tell him that I sent you. Talk to me before you head over there. He is the best painter I can find (and I have looked from CA to FL). It is not easy sending 78" long boxes to Michigan every week from Florida, but it is well worth the trouble. He is very good, very fast and very professional. The hull looks awesome once it is prepped and painted. I have shipped Mark MANY of these hulls and he has gotten the system down very well in doing the MTI. Have you considered a vhull?...might not be bad for what you are doing with it. email me

Paul M

XXX- Thanks for the reply. Tom told me he was thinking that water droplets were being sucked into the carb, but he had a European customer that said he had it all figured out. Un fortunately I still have not heard back as to what the solution was. I'm just trying to head things off at the pass. I would really appreciate the measurments from your project. What was the carb issue?

The 15 inches is from the plug to where the hardware mounts. The boat doesn't have to be the fastest thing on water as I don't plan to race, I just don't want to bog down in turns. Also if I wanted a 40 mph hull, I wouldn't have spent that kind of money.

I suppose a big concern of having the cg to far aft is blow overs which I definitely don't want.

I know from my hydro experience, the Mathe is bad to bog down at low RPM if the balance is wrong. but like I said I had my cg too far back.

I think the Mathe guy was recomending the 2# in the bow to prevent that? I asked why not just put the engine further forward and he was talking about the center of lift and where the the boat was being pushed as being important as well. Can anyone speak to that?

BTW - my hatch doesn't fit flat either, but I wasn't really bothered as when it's all locked down I can't see it being a problem.

I didn't know dremel made an angle attachment, sounds like a much better idea that what I was planning to try.

I hadn't thought of raising up the hatch a bit. Might try that but it may not look good.

xxxboatworks

Paul,
The guy from Europe lives in Fl part time and I saw him this morning. Like Tom said, It was the tiny water mist that was slowing down the boat. (It took months to figure this out). A homemade snorkle over the carb inlet cured the problem. I have the plug 15.5" from the transom. Makes sure the engine is mounted as low as possible. The rear (collet end) of the engine should pretty much be laying on the botton of the hull. Just slide a piece of cardboard under the motor and mount it as low as it will go...then slide the piece of cardboard out. I know Mathe recommends a pretty aft cg, buy i find the boat can blow over with this set up. As far as the dremel attachment, it is the best 25 bucks you will ever spend.

FROGMAN524

My Feedback: (5)

xxx, do you have any of the GTX hulls in stock? I haven't checked my PM yet so I don't know if you have responded yet. Thanks, Ken.

lzvagias

dpt, my kilner had that shoe box fit and i ground it off, filled it and faired it. it was a good bit of work but it really improved the look dramaticly.

i thought that cg rule changes with the power of the motor, the more power a motor puts out the farther forward it should be. not true?

btw- just to make it clear, i wasn't implying that they have poor finishes. i was just stating that the gtx and the mti are made by the same company.

Sayonara

not a bad idea. i just might try that.

lzvagias

paul, regarding water in the radios, i have done alot of experimenting with new servos and recievers to fin d the best way to resist water. i literally ordered four brand new futaba 3003 servos that i saw on sale for dirt cheap for this specific reason. i did not have corrosion-x but something similar that west marine sales that works pretty well, i can't say if its better or worse. but i wanted better protection so i found that if you take servos apart and epoxy the circuit board real well it prevents any water from even making contact with circuitry. i made sure that i sealed all the gaps between board and capacitors and removed any excess so it fit back in the casing. spray motor of servo with that corrosion-x or the like, then sealed with electrical tape. i used grease around the main drive gear and tried a o-ring but it caused too much resistance so i removed it. instead of the oring i found that helium balloons (much thicker rubber than regular balloons) worked well for putting servos inside. i cut the oring thing off of the balloon and carefully worked it over the servo. once its inside the balloon fits loosely around the servo. then i put the servo arm on over the balloon, it took a little more force but not to much and still dosn't tear the balloon. once its in place you cant push the screw in and srcew it inplace, it will create a small hole but the screw keeps water out. then i zip tied the ballon around the wires really tight and screw the servo inplace. again, the screws create little holes but the screws keep the water out. i epoxied the reciever to and even without a balloon i could place the reciever in a glass full of water and it still worked under water! that was a sight for sure! after a 20 or 30 seconds it did begin to glich a bit but once out of the water it was fine. with the reciever in a balloon too its totally water proof. servos with no balloon sealed board and electrical taped seams operated for a little less time in the glass but with ballon they are worry free and battery could also be submersed in glass while operating inside balloon.

sorry for the long post but i thought this might be worth sharing.

FROGMAN524

My Feedback: (5)

Is the 90 degree drill on the dremel the only way to drill holes for the motor mounts?

xxxboatworks

Ken, it is the fastest way to drill holes in the rails. It takes 5 seconds to drill a straight hole using the dremel. It takes an hour to drill them by hand. You can also use the dremel to cut out holes, etc in the rail (which you will have to do). I doubt I could build a boat without one. And yes, i do have a few gtx's.