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My first gas boat - Comments pls

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Old 07-01-2006, 01:35 PM
  #1  
tbaysal2000
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Default My first gas boat - Comments pls

My purchase plans in US didn't work for my alternatives of Shockwave or V24 so I will end up buying this boat from a local builder. It is fiberglass V hull and I will be using it in the sea. Hull is 3.74" and total lenght is 4.30". It weights 15.4 pounds without fuel. I bought this for abt $800 including RC and the builder claims about 40 mph with this air cooled engine w/ clutch (don't know the brand). My choice was finalised on the local builder as I can get local aftermarket support. That should help me also if I want to sell for an upgrade in the future.

I am sending the pictures so that you can comment on this boat. Does everything look OK on this boat? I still don't know the engine brand and specs as there was a last minute change by the owner to meet by request of 40 mph+ speeds. I listed below what concerns me the most:
- What is your general comments?
- Is the engine size OK for this size?
- Is the propeller over sized for this size of boat?
- First of all the muffler is totally different then the ones I see and I don't know if this is good or bad.
- RC is a Futaba megatech 2PL with Futaba S3003 servos. Are these servos OK for marine?
- Does the hull look OK to handle speed cruising over waves?
- Should I expect this boat to sink fast if it flips?

I will send the videos once I test in the water (how to post videos?). I will not be able to tell the speed until I race it next to my friend's 30 knot real boat.
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Old 07-01-2006, 02:54 PM
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jelly bean
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Default RE: My first gas boat - Comments pls

i just have to say if your running in salt water spray metal parts with wd-40 and wash it down with fresh water when done running.
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Old 07-01-2006, 03:07 PM
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Default RE: My first gas boat - Comments pls

Buy a GPS it will tell you how fast your boats top speed is

http://www.homedepot.com has them for $99.00 ......$79.00 reconditioned

I use the same type of flexible hosing on my exhaust systems for 1/5 trucks
http://www.fg-hopups.com/images/DSC00499.jpg

It looks like a standard exhaust can with the flexible tubing to the pipe

I think you wil probably see high 30s low 40s


........................................THINGS TO CHANGE............................................ ..............

The steering servo get a 1/4 scale, try a hitech 805bb.
Get pool noodles and insert them in the front of your hull to prevent sinkage of your $$$
Props ...prather 270, 275 , 280, get you started
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Old 07-01-2006, 03:10 PM
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Default RE: My first gas boat - Comments pls

yeah i havent even ran my first boat yet..."nitro" but i have a gps for it
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Old 07-01-2006, 03:43 PM
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Default RE: My first gas boat - Comments pls

It is an Enforcer Gator with Enforcer old style hardware. Motor is a Homelite, most likely a 30cc, but possibly a 25cc.

It will sink like a stone unless you put some type of floatation in, most prefer pool noodles.
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Old 07-01-2006, 04:20 PM
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jelly bean
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Default RE: My first gas boat - Comments pls

i thought it reminded me of a gator. i just saw the hull style but its been so long since ive seen that hull the name didnt come to my headnow i know
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Old 07-01-2006, 06:09 PM
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Default RE: My first gas boat - Comments pls

Thanks all for info.

Few questions:

- Is that Hull really that old? [&:] Does this mean I have a sh..[:@] hull? What are the improvements on this hull with new DeepVee hull types? Remember that I need a hull to handle very rough waters
- GPS: Will a GPS made for US work any where in the world? I need this work in Turkey. Also how will I see the speed if that is built on the hull. Does it have a recording system?
- Engine: If my engine is Homelite 30cc as you mentioned, is that a good engine? Where can I find the specs for that engine?
- Exhaust: Is it OK to keep the exhaust the way it is? With dual exhaust, it should be pretty easy air flow. What does the performance exhaust add to that?
- Props: Did you proposed props after looking at my props or you inform what's ideal? Builder claims these are performance as well. Will it help if I give some measurements (and which measurements) and close up photos.

Please list as much info as possible. It shouldn't really stop you if somebody else made a comment
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Old 07-01-2006, 09:11 PM
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Default RE: My first gas boat - Comments pls

Only major problem is your steering linkage...You want more of a straight shot from servo to rudder,which will entail you to move the sevo..And,yeah a 1/4 scale servo would be best.
Nice looking boat.........Run it and see where your at.....
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Old 07-01-2006, 09:29 PM
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I believe a GPS works anywhere in the world
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Old 07-02-2006, 06:44 AM
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Default RE: My first gas boat - Comments pls

ORIGINAL: tbaysal2000

Thanks all for info.

Few questions:

- Is that Hull really that old? [&:] Does this mean I have a sh..[:@] hull? What are the improvements on this hull with new DeepVee hull types? Remember that I need a hull to handle very rough waters
The boat is fine for play. Speaking from having owned two of them. It was designed for the heavier aircooled Homelites and Zenoahs. Saying it was designed for them meaning that its got more flare in the bow to help it lift and ride free.

Rough water: Everyone has their version of what this is.

Windy chop - you're not going anywheres fast. Be careful as it will literally blow over like a tunnel boat. Go out there and be judicious with the throttle and careful in your turns.

Rolling wakes / waves - a total blast.~! Get it on top and let it fly. Mine has flown 3+ meters on some jumps with a little planning. Not full bore or you'll dunk it with a nice back flip.


- GPS: Will a GPS made for US work any where in the world? I need this work in Turkey. Also how will I see the speed if that is built on the hull. Does it have a recording system?

GPS will work most anywheres.

Yes, you'll see the MAX & Average speed recorded.


- Engine: If my engine is Homelite 30cc as you mentioned, is that a good engine? Where can I find the specs for that engine?
Engine is good. If you want a cheap upgrade, look to the SIKK 27 aircooled.

Spec's -- do a search.

- Exhaust: Is it OK to keep the exhaust the way it is? With dual exhaust, it should be pretty easy air flow.
Don't know. Looks pretty cool.


What does the performance exhaust add to that?
Don't waist your money on a tuned exhaust. My boat with a stock aircooled Zenoah RC230 ran 40 mph on its first time out with stock cannister exhaust. You've got a Homelite so there is a performance difference.

- Props: Did you proposed props after looking at my props or you inform what's ideal? Builder claims these are performance as well. Will it help if I give some measurements (and which measurements) and close up photos.

Props - I'd say twoprops for you to try.

Prather 275 & 280

The Homelites have a lot of torque to swing big props. They don't like to rev like Zenoahs. Most likely you're looking at the 280 or even an Octura X482.


Again, only speaking from personal experience with these boats. You're going to have a good time with it.



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Old 07-02-2006, 07:03 AM
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Default RE: My first gas boat - Comments pls

that is a nice looking boat you got yourself there!!one thing of concern i see is the exhaust, it wont make max power without a tuned pipe.
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Old 07-02-2006, 07:30 AM
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ORIGINAL: mahogany dreams

that is a nice looking boat you got yourself there!!one thing of concern i see is the exhaust, it wont make max power without a tuned pipe.
If it was a modded Homie I would agree, but it is a stock A/C Homie. I seriously doubt you could tell a difference between a can and a pipe. I know I can't tell a difference on a Homie.

IMHO, save your money on a pipe for that motor. Also, a 280 Texas Cut runs great on that boat/drive with a stock 30cc Homie.
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Old 07-02-2006, 11:24 AM
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Default RE: My first gas boat - Comments pls

It looks like I've got myself a used boat in stead of a new one. The guy told me that he was doing me a favor and in stead of the stock engine, he was giving me a good US made engine but did not tell anything more. So it is a used Homelite I ended up I guess. And I found out that it is actually a company making chainsaws!!! On the other hand I also understand that it is a common brand for RC gas boating, am I right? (oh please say YES [])

PHCM, thanks for warning about the wave types. While at the shore, I will enjoy the fly over the curving waves. I will also ride on my friends boat that speeds up to 35 mph (30 knots) so I want to sail parallel but as we will be out of the shore, I should be able to keep up if not very windy and chopy (from what I understand based on your explanation, thanks a lot)

I really wonder if this is 25cc or 30cc as well as stock or modified. Maybe someone can tell by looking at the close up shots. The exhaust connection (what is that rectangular box called, manifold?) looks bigger then the super g etc. I found this link about the Homelite engines prepared by warehouse hobbies but still can't tell.
http://www.warehousehobbies.com/faq.htm#1

I am not sure if this hull is a copy or the real Enforcer. Maybe someone can tell from the size. There's a crack at the end of the hull. Is this a big problem? (check the photos)

Hmmm, 280 Texas Cut means Prather, right??? Give this Turkish guy a little break What is the performance difference between a steel and copper alloy prop? Which is more suitable for salty water?

I am not looking for sharp turns so I need to see if the current servo meets my expectations. 1/4 scale steering servo is quite expensive for an immediate change. Maybe I'll look for a used one.

On the exhaust manifold I see the Enforcer name so those who made guess, hats off, this is really some expertise. How will I know now if it is 25cc, 30cc, standart, mod etc. I am adding close pics.

Is any 2 stroke oil (for bikes I guess) OK for this engine and what is the best mix? Does the oil mix change for 25 and 30cc?

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Old 07-02-2006, 12:53 PM
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Default RE: My first gas boat - Comments pls

It is hard to say whether it is a knock off Gator or the real thing. I know several people have splashed that hull, most recently Barnstormer Boats comes to mind. It looks solid, so I would not worry about that. However, from the hardware and the can, etc. I would hazard a guess it is authentic.

The chip in the bottom is in a bad spot. Without seeing it first hand it is hard to say if it is repairable or if it will get worse, but there is some vibration at that part of the boat.

Since it is air cooled, I would think it is most likely stock, most folks that would take the time to mod the jug would also water cool it. The Homie engines were at one time the most used RC boat GAS engines. While Homelite does make chainsaws, they also make weedeaters and leaf blowers. The latter two are what the engines for the boats are pulled from. Usually with a clutch (like yours). They are very dependable motors in stock form and very forgiving. You can run most any 2-stroke oil in them.

a P280 is a Prather prop, I would go with stainless steel for running in salt water. BE SURE you balance and sharpen it well PRIOR to running it.

Now, here is my OPINION. If you have not purchased this boat yet, then talk him down on the $$. He is making really good money on a well used boat with an A/C Homie and an AM radio. These Gators with RC 230 Zenoahs (much faster engine) go for about $400-$600 on eBay all the time with a radio.
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Old 07-03-2006, 02:29 PM
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Default RE: My first gas boat - Comments pls

How fast do you think my Enforcer will go if I would swap current with this package:

http://cgi.ebay.com/5-5HP-SIKK-MARIN...QQcmdZViewItem

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Old 07-03-2006, 03:19 PM
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Default RE: My first gas boat - Comments pls

And what is the proper oil/fuel mix for the Homie?
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Old 07-03-2006, 03:50 PM
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Default RE: My first gas boat - Comments pls


ORIGINAL: tbaysal2000

And what is the proper oil/fuel mix for the Homie?
32:1
1 gallon of gas : 4 ounces of oil
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Old 07-03-2006, 04:33 PM
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Default RE: My first gas boat - Comments pls

ORIGINAL: tbaysal2000

How fast do you think my Enforcer will go if I would swap current with this package:

http://cgi.ebay.com/5-5HP-SIKK-MARIN...QQcmdZViewItem

Too much motor for a Gator hull. Here is why. The G is a high lift hull design, made for a heavy low RPM motor like the Homie. When you put a high horsepower motor in it, it will get out of hand quickly. A stock 230 would do great in it.
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Old 07-03-2006, 04:50 PM
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A hull designed for high torque engine! Well, then this is the hull for me as I will run it in waters which will need a lot of torque.

So just buying a G230 is enough? Is this also air cooled or I need to change the total system? I mean if I change the engine should I change the exhaust canister, exhaust system (which I like the looks) and carbs? (and what else?)

What performance increase should I expect after this vs current by means of top speed. From all the comments, I understand that with the current set up, I should achieve at least 35 mph.

What is the best source for G230?

I also think my engine is not mounted on rubber friction emitting stuff. Is it a big problem?



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Old 07-03-2006, 05:34 PM
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Which one is the G230 mentined?

http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...rodID=ZENE231M

http://www.warehousehobbies.com/ez23.html

http://www.davesmotors.com/store/product613.html

http://www.davesmotors.com/store/product1202.html

http://www.davesmotors.com/store/product347.html

http://www.needforspeedhobbies.com/zenoahengines.htm

or else where???
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Old 07-05-2006, 04:52 AM
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I talked to the seller and he will get the boat back so that we will build a new one. Unfortunately my cost will not be less then $800 still.

I found good zenoah packages at Bonzi sports after a research.

Questions:
1- Which Zenoah? My hull is good for air cooled so should I just stick to G230 or would I see better performance with G260, G321. I just think less salty water around, the better it is. So air cooled seems the right way but this is just a simple logic I am making.
2- Would I need a performance exhaust with the Zenoah? I would prefer a silent performance as well. I just need to buy everything from one seller to optimize my shipping costs.
3- What propeller for the proposed Zenoah engine on my Enforcer?
4- Anything I forgot?

Unfortunely I will have to stick with the shaft system and hardware (rudder etc) as it is a complete package with the hull.


Thanks
Tufan

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Old 07-05-2006, 08:20 AM
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Default RE: My first gas boat - Comments pls

Tufan,

Have you already purchased this boat? If so, are you paying this seller more for another engine? If that is what you are planning, I would suggest just running the boat as is and when you are ready to move up, sell it and buy another faster hull and engine, etc. This is based on if you have already bought and paid for this boat.

Who is the seller? Roldo98Marine by any chance?
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Old 07-05-2006, 09:04 AM
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I spoke to a Turkish guy who also runs this gator hull and he is extremely happy with the handling and speed of this hull in the sea.

I will be able to negotiate with the seller to pay me back for what we take out but I have to keep the hull. As it will be my first gas boat, it is better to stick with a hull that I can keep up and learn. Importing the hull is very expensive due to the size but the engine and hardware due to size is cheaper to import.

As a result, I will have to keep the hull, hardware, drive system (which is not flex by the way) but I can change the engine, RC/servo/receiver.

Therefore I am looking for the right engine, carb and wonder if I need a special exhaust for that. There's a Turkish performance exhaust supplier selling at $80 for an performance exhaust.

I really wonder what all those changes will add to the current set up. I think PHCM as having the on hands experience on this hull in the sea with different set ups can be one of the best to comment.


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Old 07-05-2006, 10:35 AM
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Default RE: My first gas boat - Comments pls

All I am saying is don't put a bunch more money into it, $800 is alot for this boat, too much IMHO. The performance increase vs the stability of the hull is a trade off on the Gator. A stock Zenoah 260 will put this hull at 45ish MPH and that is very fast for this hull. I do think that aircooled is better for running in saltwater.

I ran a Gator with a Pro Mod Homelite in very rough river water, like 6-8" chop and it was quite nimble, but I would say with a Zen G260 it would have been way overpowered for the hull and the conditions.
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Old 07-05-2006, 06:30 PM
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Default RE: My first gas boat - Comments pls

Davcruz, I am bit confused. Do you mean G260 is too much power so I should go for an aircooled G230RC? I found this one which is the only air G230 with a little mod. Seems to be my best option then. (The one at the bottom which claims 3.5 HP. Any familiarity with this supplier?)

http://www.needforspeedhobbies.com/zenoahengines.htm

I also think it comes with a clutch but I am not sure. I've contacted them and waiting for a reply.




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