5150Cat

He's alive!!!!!!!!

Good gosh I suck again. LOL! I don't even know if anyone is following this post anymore but here's my update.

Bought a house. Garage is all mine. Ready to finish this $*&* boat once and for all.

I'm at a stumbling point though. In the past couple years we have been racing 5th scale cars and trucks with brushless set ups.

I'm considering bailing on the gas set up again and moving to a brushless set up. I have a stack of lipos......I'm impressed with the power, reliability and ease of the brushless......just not the lower run times.

Thoughts before I drink one too many beers and start ebaying gas parts? LOL!

Mario Giordano

Well, glad to see you back, I'm also building a Hunter so you can take a look to my thread and maybe be give me some tips.

In the meantime I'll give you an advice, don't go electric, I started this project and I wanted to go electric, but after some research, I realized that there are more negative points than positive, very very low runtime, lot of money for seroius batteries (600 € for 1 10s series bat = 8 or 10 minutes runtime) so if you want to run 30 minutes you will need to invest almost 2000 U$S of batteries and even change them 3 times, a good battery charger = 500€ , esc are also expensive, you have to be very careful in handling the power (we are talking of very powerful motors) in a flash you burn everything, and if this happens.....
So in my opinion, it's better to go gas.

Regards

5150Cat

Thanks Mario! Glad to see you are building a Hunter as well.

Sounds like you've done the research and electric is out. I'm going to have to agree with you and as often as I keep trying to go back to brushless.....it's just not an option right now. Especially since I have all the parts basically to do the gas.

So sticking with gas.

Mario, let me know if you want pictures of anything else progress wise I've done. I will try to get everything together this weekend and snap some photos for you guys.

Mario Giordano

Mike, I asked you in my thread for some pics, even here if you want.

I saw that you have all the parts so now you have to work and assemble, Instead I'm at the beginning and a lot of stuff to get.
Can't wait to see pics and progress of your boat.

Justaddwata

My Feedback: (3)

MIke - was thinking someone might have hacked your account with all that electric talk. Good to see you back though your never too far away!

I wont be giving you a hard time for taking so long on the build - I got to get back in the shop myself!

5150Cat

Matt!
What is up my friend! Ok yes I had a weak moment looking at electric again. Won't happen again though I swear! How have you been bud? How all is well. Have you gotten in your shop yet? I'm just this weekend getting my garage in order finally. Been a long time coming and hope to get this Hunter finished up and wet.

Going to take another look at where I am in this project this weekend and start up again!

mistycreekboats

My Feedback: (1)

Yea get that puppy rolling again do we can see it get wet
Randy

5150Cat

Mario--Ok here you go buddy. I took some pics of the drive location tonight. Sorry the pics aren't that great.

Matt--Hahahaa, I know, highjacked is right! I wish someone would highjack my garage and finish all these dang projects for me! LOL! Too many and not enough time!

Randy--Getting close.....just a few more parts then it all comes together!

Mario Giordano

Thanks Mike, confirmed my higher position, but what can i do? I don't know if leave them as they are now or what.... nobody answered in my thread.....Do you think I wil have issues? I think no one knows the exact position of these drives, mine are 5 or 6 mm higher than yours....

5150Cat

Mario--
I'm not sure what it will do. But just seeing how the hull will create a natural ledge of water behind the boat, I think yours might be too high. I'm not sure where I came up with the exact location of mine other than just looking at full sized race boats. The tip of the front of the drive is pretty much at the point where the bottom of the hull and water meet at full speed. As seen in the picture.

Personally I think you might have troubles. Not only in the corners but top speed as well as I don't think enough of your prop will be in the water. Or if so you will lose some trimming because your hull will have to remain so wet. I know you wanted to stay conservative with speed but I think that would be too much.

I thought about what I would do if I had to reposition my drives. Personally? I would but a piece of carbon fiber over the back of the outside of the transom, then fill in the existing holes with a combination of silica and good epoxy. That would make sure you aren't sacrificing any strength and also let you drill and or retap new holes in the back.

Maybe some of these guys that are more educated on this will answer a more educated answer.....but that's probably what I would do.

Justaddwata

My Feedback: (3)

Mario - I added a post to your thread with some observations.

5150Cat

Mario,
Matt makes some good points. The dude is a wealth of information and I would have screwed up multiple things if it weren't for his brain! LOL!

5150Cat

Ok guys, made some progress tonight. Got the gear box full of oil, got the drives filled up also and mounted up. Pulled the engine out and took it to the garage and got it fired up on the third pull. Good gosh that thing is obnoxious! LOL! But regardless, the only and last time I started that up was about a year ago(cough).......kind of sad it's been sitting that long.

So next step is to get the exhaust squared away. Need to hit up a welder and get some mods done!

Had to also make a quick set of stickers and throw them on......just because I'm really tired of looking at just a plain white hull! That and I just can't stand not having stickers on everything!

More to come.

Justaddwata

My Feedback: (3)

I keep forgetting how big the hunter is. The length gives no indication to the size - that is for sure.

How full did you fill the gearbox? I have found my MHZ boxes leak/weap oil when not running and the oil will need a little room to expand when running so filled to the top might make it a little messy. I also see the occasional drip forming under the S6 sterndrives. My MHZ boxes do not have seals - the bearings look to have a seal but my bearings are not tight in the housings - where the leaks come from I guess. Cannot say I have ever received instructions for the filling of MHZ box or drives though. I would fill the S6 to the top though.

5150Cat

Afternoon Matt!
I filled it pretty full. But I am working on a overflow container. Its just small fuel tank. I know once those gears inside that box get to going it mixes with the air and expands.....spewing oil all over. So yes, learned that one the hard way for sure. I will fill it almost full, then have that overflow container. Two reasons for that. Number one it lets me know for sure that everything is lubed to the highest degree the box can stand. Number two is, at just a glance I can see how much fluid is in that overflow and know if I need to fill it or not. To help with the spewing of oil I've also placed little rubber O-rings over the shafts.....not going to ensure a full seal, but it will definitely help.

And yes, I have definitely filled the S6's to the top. Don't see much if any leaking from them at all. Need to hit up MHZ to get some replacement seals. I can see them being the first to go. Just hope they don't want to sell me a whole gear set.

That being said, have you looked at the Arrow Shark M8 drives? Or heard anything about them? They run about the same price and look almost identical.

I think if I ever do upgrade I'll go with MHZ's newer drives with the helical gears......that's got to help to hold up to the power for sure.

Just finish building a servo mount for the throttle today. I'll get pics up in a bit.

5150Cat

Ok guys here is the finished throttle servo mount.

First off I'd like to apologize to Matt for the ***** photos. I'm too lazy to break out the SLR and you guys just have to deal with cell phone pics!

I had played around with different options on how to set up the throttle servo. Ultimately liked this version the best. I may end up cutting that back corner off but for now I'll leave it. Might be able to drill some holes for the fuel tubing to route through. But it's rock solid. All in line, doesn't effect the pull start at all and is clean. The only thing I'll worry about is keeping the wires away from the magneto's. Don't know if they would give any interference or not, but I'm not going to take any chances.

So here's my thoughts and want to run it by you guys. I want one thing on this boat. Water cooling lines exiting the exhaust. Now before everyone freaks out. I know that water in the chamber of the pipe can change things, and not in a good way. But. I want that gurgly, bubbly sweet sound of spent exhaust and hot water mixing together as they exit the pipes. So here's my thought.

I'm going to have the pipes both aimed up. Roughly at a 30 degree angle. Then from that, a 90 degree elbow, couple inches of straight and then another 90 that aims towards the back of the hull. At this point I have two exhaust ports. Big ones. They are about 1/2" in diameter. The opening is I mean. And all tubing past the pipe will be 1/2" or so. Big. So there is no restriction. My thinking here is to not restrict the exhaust past the pipe in any way. My exiting water will be input into the exhaust tunnel just a few inches from the transom. So all in all, the water will only be in the pipe chamber for maybe 4". Not a lot. But coming out the back will still be the good sound and shouldn't cause any issues with flow or restriction.

The other reason to have the pipes head up, then the pipe down and then have the water enter at the bottom is that no water will be able to make it back up to the pipe and end up in the chamber. Played this game before and it's a PITA. So when the boats rockin and rollin at an idle in the choppy water, no water will be able to leak into the head. Which is good. Water and gas don't mix......in boats or hot tubs!

Any thoughts or errors in my thinking from y'all? I thought about going 4 ports out.....but settled on two big ones. I need to get pics for you guys on here of those too......let me do that now.......

5150Cat

Ok here are the exhaust ports I had made a few years ago. Simple but should be effective. Haven't figured out how to tape the water lines into it, but will probably put it in one of the straight sections.

02f350psd

My Feedback: (3)

Looks good mike. My first thought for tapping into the exhaust would be something similar to a grease fitting zerk. Drill a hole in the exhaust and thread the zerk in. Would be best if you could angle it away from the motor to help from water going up the pipe the wrong way but don't know how threading in at an angle would work. Keep us posted.

02f350psd

My Feedback: (3)

Any updates for us??? If not i can take the boat off your hands for you haha

5150Cat

Good gosh. I feel like the dr with Frankenstein bringing this back from the dead multiple times! It's final. And you guys can get ready to cringe......but I'm making the Hunter brushless electric! Here's my reasoning.

Due to the wheelchair, the boat loaded with that huge twin motor, pipes, hardware and fuel.....way to heavy. I know the electric won't be a TON lighter, but it will be significantly lighter since i can take out the batteries. That being said, no more fuel in my lap. Not sure if you guys know, but 87 octane isn't good for your junk! LOL! I've got all the gas stuff going to a friend so that's a done deal.

Second point of me going electric. I run big 5th scale trucks. I'm already set up for big electric stuff. I've got a huge charger, and have half a dozen 10s-12s setups laying around with big mAh's. I like going to the lake with nothing more than batteries, a boat and a controller. Nothing else. No fuel, no rags, no plugs, no tools(for the most part) and then there's the starting of said motor again with the chair and the water and stuff. More than I care to deal with.

So that being said. No gear box, no exhaust, no fuel. I'm looking at the new Swordfish X 300amp ESC's, a pair of MHZ water cooled Scorpion motors and to start, a 10s set up.

I cannot get a straight answer from anyone concerning speeds or run times. So I'm just throwing this at it and am going to experiment. Some guys say "oh you'll never get more than 5 minutes runtime" and others saying "you should get 10+ minutes".......whatever. At this point I don't care. They said I'd only get 5 minutes out of my 5th scale truck also and I consistently get close to 20 minutes. So I'm taking everyone's talk with a grain of salt.

My main concern is to go easy on the drives. Knowing the torque and power of an electric set up, I can comfortably say they are the weakest link in the set up I'm running. I'd like to get the newer drives as I've heard they are a little better. But I'll grenade these first and go from there.

So I'll be working on getting the electrics going and then working on some carbon fiber for the ESC, battery and motor mounts. The only thing I'm going to seal up is the rx for the radio. The ESC's are waterproof and the only thing I worry about there is the batteries but.....I worry about the heat with them more than anything so I'll let them breath.

Also trying to decide a paint scheme. And by paint I mean vinyl printed sticker wrap. Going to start with that so I can change it up if I want. Any thoughts? Thought about doing a Trooper theme from Iron Maiden.....but we'll see.

And before anyone asks. I don't care how fast it is. If I can get 45mph+ I'll be happy. If I get faster then great. But that's my minimum goal at this point. Run times in the 7-8 minute range would be ok with me.....more would be better. But I'll take what I can get. Trying to hit this project up with some realistic expectations!

Hope all you guys are doing good!

Mike

Justaddwata

My Feedback: (3)

Awesome to see an update Mike - even if we are losing this one to electric it will be good to see it progress. I am sorry I am of ZERO help with info on electrics. I have avoided it very effectively till now. But that said I will watch with interest - who knows - you may just entice me to try it.

Thanks for the info about 87 octane on the junk - can honestly say I have never tried it. I have super glued my lips together (by accident) and had good shot of carburettor cleaner in the eye. But no gas on the junk

While the torque from electrics is considerable - I should think it would be a smoother delivery which may help the drives more than harm them - just guessing though. The S6 is certainly a capable drive and I have seen them behind QD35s without failure. The NXT drive is getting a better rating from MHZ though I cannot say I have seen any taking any power situations an S6 has not handled previously.

Also interested in how your wrap goes. There is a local guy here who does boats though is limited in size. I was going to put him to work on a boat to see how it comes out. Certainly an option that brings some positives that paint cant.

Looking forward to your updates - I will bug you more now!!

5150Cat

Bug on my friend! And yes happy to see this boat coming together even if it isn't gas!

The delivery for the electric can also be muted a little at the start with the ESC's. I have the option for a "soft start" which slowly increases the power instead of just a solid dump of all 40+ volts. So that should help. I'm not building a drag boat, I'd rather have a wave choppin machine!

And yes, I've done stickers for years and have done a couple wraps. The nice part about doing a wrap is you can have them print up the design on the wrap so it makes it nice that way. We'll see. I don't have a printer for sticker so I have to have that part done but I'm liking the idea more and more. Coming up with a design is a whole other nightmare I have to figure out!

5150Cat

Annnnnnd we're back.

Ok, so after long discussions and threatening phone calls from Matt.....I'm bailing on the electric idea. Multiple reason. First. I was going electric to make it easier for me to get the boat around by myself in the chair and all. Well electric is still heavy and still going to be impossible for me to do alone. So it's silly to go electric.

Especially since I have the full motor/gearbox set up ready to go.

So here's where we are at. Swapped the piston and head on one of the cylinders so now I have one exhaust on each side. Then I fabbed up a carbon fiber/Kevlar servo mount for each of the throttles since they are on opposite sides now.

Worked on getting one of the windshields cut and fitted. Will get the other tonight. Also thanks to Matt I put in a brace for the windshield center divider since it was pretty flexy.

Have servo mounts for steering coming, as well as the final throttle piece I need for the carbs. The only other thing I need to sort is fuel tank, radio box, kill switch and exhaust ports. Going to work on something nice for the exhaust ports. Functional and should look and sound good.

I'll add some pictures if anyone other than me is still following this forever post! LOL!

Mike

Mario Giordano

Great!! I'm building a Hunter too, but i'm going electric, started some years ago with a gas project but after to many issues i decided to convert it. As soon as the apache is finished, i start with the Hunter.
Want to see the pictures.
Cheers