Go Back  RCU Forums > RC Boats > Speed - RC Gas Boats
Reload this Page >

Duplicating or "copying" an existing hull...ETHICALLY!

Notices
Speed - RC Gas Boats Discuss gas RC boats right here!

Duplicating or "copying" an existing hull...ETHICALLY!

Old 05-17-2009, 06:04 AM
  #51  
Dreamin Hemi
Thread Starter
 
Dreamin Hemi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Milton, DE
Posts: 2,638
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY!


ORIGINAL: HOOTERS racing



nice work mate just wondering are you spraying the gelcoat and at what psi you are useing thanks



ian

Thank you Ian,

I'm using a spray gun specifically designed for placing gelcoat called a "dump gun", or some refer to it as a "cup gun". Using this type gun eliminates the need to thin the tooling gelcoat and avoids problems with doing so. Clean up us also easy as all I do is discard the paper cup that fits inside the one you see and wipe down the lid, thats all! Tooling gelcoat is significantly thicker than regular gelcoat so Ineed a larger nozzle than what I typically use for regular gel. I think it's somewhere in the neighborhood of 6mm??? A brush could be used, however you'll never get the results that you can get with spraying with a dump gun.

As far as pressure, I have found 40 to 45 psi to be a nice pressure. Any more than that creates ripples, sort of like little waves at a beach on the surface.

Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Hf98740.jpg
Views:	26
Size:	58.3 KB
ID:	1200066   Click image for larger version

Name:	Kf13733.jpg
Views:	30
Size:	53.2 KB
ID:	1200067  
Old 05-17-2009, 08:51 AM
  #52  
Paul M
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Kingsport, TN
Posts: 1,803
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY!

Scott, Can that gun be used for paint as well?
Old 05-17-2009, 08:59 AM
  #53  
Dreamin Hemi
Thread Starter
 
Dreamin Hemi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Milton, DE
Posts: 2,638
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY!

Trying to paint the outside of a hull? If so than the answer is no. That dump gun dosen't atomize the gelcoat as it's "poured" out of the nozzle, it's only directed by the airflow in droplets onto the surface in more of a splatter configuration. Air pressure does not siphon the gel from the cup, only gravity....soon as you tilt it forward, the flow starts and you better be ready. Good for appling into molds, terrible for final paint work. The nozzle is way too large anyway. For actual painting like when I use a basecoat/clearcoat or enamels you need guns similar to these....
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Nl30341.jpg
Views:	41
Size:	62.6 KB
ID:	1200196  
Old 05-17-2009, 09:09 AM
  #54  
Dreamin Hemi
Thread Starter
 
Dreamin Hemi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Milton, DE
Posts: 2,638
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY!

Here's a shot of a gelcoat gun nozzle and also that of a standard automotive paint gun compared to a regular pencil. As you can see the difference is more than obvious.
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Zx71921.jpg
Views:	26
Size:	46.4 KB
ID:	1200203   Click image for larger version

Name:	Ez81468.jpg
Views:	30
Size:	50.1 KB
ID:	1200204  
Old 05-17-2009, 09:39 AM
  #55  
twindaddy66
Senior Member
 
twindaddy66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Blanchard, OK
Posts: 437
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY!

Scott, all I can say is I wish I lived closer, or had more time to check out this project in person! Like I said, I'm a behind the scenes kinda person who likes to know how something is made and I appreciatethe time and effort you put into put these "how to's" on here and your site. One day I will give things a try myself, (just to see if I can pull it off) and you can bet I am going to uses these as reference! Heck I still may have to make another trip to Milton......LOL.

Keep up the good work!

T-Daddy
Old 05-17-2009, 11:05 AM
  #56  
Dreamin Hemi
Thread Starter
 
Dreamin Hemi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Milton, DE
Posts: 2,638
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY!

It does take some time, but it always worth it in the end. Come back down anytime T-Daddy!

Just came back from applying the gelcoat. Here are a few more pictures that probably don't need explanation. Had a little problem with the tooling gelcoat as it began to kick off before I was hoping it would. Will be checking the date on the can. Oh well, if it dosen't turn out, I'll just build another one, but should it should be OK. After all, it's just a hatch and not the entire hull!

Here is the hatch after the application of PVA. Other shots show the gelcoat gun apart, filled cup with tooling gelcoat, and reassembled. The rest is obvious. Notice how thick the tooling gel is??? It literally pours slowly through that large nozzle hole as surrounding air currents directs it where to go. The second to last picture was taken while being sprayed.....wanted to show you the actual spray pattern best that I could do. Kind of hard since I'm by myself out there, not letting my pregnant wife anywhere near this stuff!

Last picture is of what will become the finish coat of the hatch mold.

Notice the paint mask in the background......this gel is some seriously nasty stuff.

Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Om34611.jpg
Views:	32
Size:	23.1 KB
ID:	1200234   Click image for larger version

Name:	Ql32941.jpg
Views:	31
Size:	53.7 KB
ID:	1200235   Click image for larger version

Name:	Hm23958.jpg
Views:	31
Size:	38.7 KB
ID:	1200236   Click image for larger version

Name:	Hf97668.jpg
Views:	28
Size:	41.8 KB
ID:	1200237   Click image for larger version

Name:	Bw73563.jpg
Views:	32
Size:	34.6 KB
ID:	1200238   Click image for larger version

Name:	Ig11149.jpg
Views:	33
Size:	40.3 KB
ID:	1200239   Click image for larger version

Name:	Up47272.jpg
Views:	31
Size:	46.2 KB
ID:	1200240   Click image for larger version

Name:	Ou49506.jpg
Views:	34
Size:	40.4 KB
ID:	1200241  

Click image for larger version

Name:	Hf99188.jpg
Views:	38
Size:	38.3 KB
ID:	1200242   Click image for larger version

Name:	Xs59576.jpg
Views:	41
Size:	54.3 KB
ID:	1200243   Click image for larger version

Name:	Va72764.jpg
Views:	46
Size:	71.1 KB
ID:	1200244  
Old 05-17-2009, 12:57 PM
  #57  
Dreamin Hemi
Thread Starter
 
Dreamin Hemi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Milton, DE
Posts: 2,638
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY!

Been an hour or so and since the gel is beginning to harden, it's time for the first layer of fiberglass. Getting all the materials together first makes it a lot less hastle, especially when you only get 20 minutes of work time when the catalyst is mixed in.


Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Bz78473.jpg
Views:	32
Size:	55.5 KB
ID:	1200337  
Old 05-17-2009, 01:01 PM
  #58  
Dreamin Hemi
Thread Starter
 
Dreamin Hemi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Milton, DE
Posts: 2,638
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY!

Here I'm using a mixture of laminating resin, cabosil and micro fiber glass to make a bog that will fill in all the sharp corners of the plug. The cabisil and resin mix sort of has the consistancy of warm vaseline. Fiberglass matt has a hard time staying in place in some areas, so using this bog mixture eases the edges allowing the glass to roll over it nicely. Not doing so may generate air bubbles that will eventially break through the layer of tooling gelcoat and then a repair will be necessary.

Shown are areas I felt needed to be eased out.
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Mk25088.jpg
Views:	40
Size:	55.5 KB
ID:	1200339   Click image for larger version

Name:	Fa86168.jpg
Views:	37
Size:	44.1 KB
ID:	1200340   Click image for larger version

Name:	Tz67022.jpg
Views:	46
Size:	105.2 KB
ID:	1200341  
Old 05-17-2009, 01:12 PM
  #59  
Dreamin Hemi
Thread Starter
 
Dreamin Hemi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Milton, DE
Posts: 2,638
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY!

Here is the first glass layer made from .75oz chopped strand fiberglass. It's lightweight and bends around the corners easily.

I start with wetting out the mat with a roller and then placing that piece over a section of plug. Using the roller and brushes the mat is tooled around to lay flat. Any air bubbles can usually be convinced to leave with more resin. Itry to keep the resin to a minimum usually, but this is the 1'st and most important layer. Any air pockets here and they are there forever. The black tooling gelcoat makes it so easy to see where the air voids and pockets are.

Looking back you can see where the bog areas that were glassed over because it's a little cloudy. The mat layed over and around the corners easily over these areas.

Will let this kick off, and harden for a few hours and if time permits apply a second layer of a heavier 1.5oz mat.

Sorry for the lack of progressive glassing shots. Kind of had my gloved hands sticky with resin and strands of mat!

Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Da83459.jpg
Views:	42
Size:	91.6 KB
ID:	1200357   Click image for larger version

Name:	Cx76708.jpg
Views:	41
Size:	98.8 KB
ID:	1200358   Click image for larger version

Name:	Ng99341.jpg
Views:	45
Size:	94.8 KB
ID:	1200359   Click image for larger version

Name:	Gd93828.jpg
Views:	42
Size:	108.5 KB
ID:	1200360   Click image for larger version

Name:	Pk30464.jpg
Views:	45
Size:	112.3 KB
ID:	1200361  
Old 05-17-2009, 01:42 PM
  #60  
Paul M
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Kingsport, TN
Posts: 1,803
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY!

Why do you feel it necessary to wet out the first layer before applying it to the plug? Seems it would be less messy to apply a coat of resin over the gel coat and then apply the mat and roll it down.
Old 05-17-2009, 02:48 PM
  #61  
Dreamin Hemi
Thread Starter
 
Dreamin Hemi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Milton, DE
Posts: 2,638
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY!

Well, not necessary. When the mat is pre-saturated, it almost places itself over the area and dosen't require as much tooling to get it to stay where you want it. Either way, the same results are accomplished. I don't like working the glass over the gel more than I need to. The resin softens the gel slightly and potentially could lead to tripe in a worst case scenerio.
Old 05-17-2009, 04:19 PM
  #62  
Paul M
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Kingsport, TN
Posts: 1,803
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY!

OK that makes sense.
Old 05-18-2009, 02:00 AM
  #63  
HOOTERS racing
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: wyoming, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 189
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY!



sweet thanks for the info just one other thing what type of spray gun would one use to regelcoat a hull thanks





ian

Old 05-18-2009, 03:35 AM
  #64  
nvs motorsports
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: gold coastgold coast, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 421
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY!

Hey Hooters if you just want an easy kit you can by a Preval kit from FGI its a aerosol system that you can spray any premixed paint or gelcoat thru i use it in gelcoat touch ups handy because you dont need compressor
Old 05-18-2009, 12:20 PM
  #65  
Dreamin Hemi
Thread Starter
 
Dreamin Hemi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Milton, DE
Posts: 2,638
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY!

More up to the minute progress. Have to wait a little while since these steps have been completed to allow for curing. The hatch mold is now complete. Total laminations over the last couple days.....

.75oz mat 1 layer
1.5oz mat 4 layers
6oz cloth 1 layer

2 layers at a time were placed spaced about 8 hours apart to prevent heating up the mold too much. If it were to get too hot, I may risk chances of pre-separation of the plug before it's fully cured.

The cloth is definately not necessary with all the prior layers, but as a final layer besides adding more strength adds a smooth surface and looks really good! At this point with the hatch I'll trim the edges flush with my flange and let it sit a couple days as it cures. Will add a stand this evening to the mold so I can work in it without it moving around. Probably Wednesday or Thursday will pop it from the plug.

Other progresses.....was able to clay the slightly open areas of the upper deck, apply PVA and now just finished spraying 24oz of black tooling gelcoat. Will add my stabilizer layer in about 2 hours and complete the upper mold with the same recipe as the hatch over the next few days
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Hf98786.jpg
Views:	40
Size:	96.5 KB
ID:	1201071   Click image for larger version

Name:	Ql34844.jpg
Views:	44
Size:	89.1 KB
ID:	1201072   Click image for larger version

Name:	Zx71891.jpg
Views:	44
Size:	62.2 KB
ID:	1201073   Click image for larger version

Name:	Wr55191.jpg
Views:	43
Size:	69.2 KB
ID:	1201074  
Old 05-18-2009, 01:04 PM
  #66  
Dreamin Hemi
Thread Starter
 
Dreamin Hemi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Milton, DE
Posts: 2,638
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY!

Resins are now hard and I was able to trim the sharp glass edges with a pnumatic cut-off wheel. A few hits on my stand up belt sander and here's the completed hatch mold. All that's left to do is add stands and let it sit about 48 hours to fully harden before removing the plug.

Total thickness is about just over 3/16" or 5-6mm.
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Ki20061.jpg
Views:	45
Size:	95.2 KB
ID:	1201110   Click image for larger version

Name:	Sn42358.jpg
Views:	46
Size:	79.5 KB
ID:	1201111  
Old 05-19-2009, 02:14 PM
  #67  
Dreamin Hemi
Thread Starter
 
Dreamin Hemi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Milton, DE
Posts: 2,638
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY!

Today's progress...

4 layers total so far on the upper deck.
Stands built for the canopy using particle board.
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Jh16489.jpg
Views:	47
Size:	91.3 KB
ID:	1201828   Click image for larger version

Name:	Jf11798.jpg
Views:	47
Size:	83.0 KB
ID:	1201829  
Old 05-19-2009, 03:48 PM
  #68  
bobrien
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: greenwood, DE
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY!

Hey that's a great looking Dremin CS in the back ground......
Old 05-19-2009, 04:09 PM
  #69  
Dreamin Hemi
Thread Starter
 
Dreamin Hemi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Milton, DE
Posts: 2,638
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY!

Yeah, some crazy dude down the road a bit owns that one...
Old 05-19-2009, 09:31 PM
  #70  
Paul M
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Kingsport, TN
Posts: 1,803
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY!

Scott, you're a machine. It would have taken me a month to do what you have in a week But I work 60 hour weeks


Any reason you're doing the top first?
Old 05-19-2009, 10:31 PM
  #71  
Dreamin Hemi
Thread Starter
 
Dreamin Hemi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Milton, DE
Posts: 2,638
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY!

Lol Paul...

I don't work the hours that you do for starters.....

Being a teacher I'm usually home in the early afternoon.....most of the time around 2:30 or 3pm. Also have a very understanding wife that knows working in the garage is my therapy. I lost my younger brother (30 y/o) tragically last year and still have a difficult time handling that. My father is now in hospice care at 59 years old. The possible lack of a job for next school year due to the county budget cuts add to all this. If I don't keep busy I would move into the funny farm[&:]. This hobby we have is a great therapy for me...it really does help keep my mind off all the bs in my life.

To answer your top first question. This hull is simply a slightly heavier layup of an existing design that was built specifically with a plug use in mind. The seam design has an overlap on the sides of the hull with a perfectly flat surface that enabled be to easily add a straight flange using that lip as a guide. You'll see in a couple days when I pop this out why I'm doing this the way I am.
Old 05-19-2009, 10:35 PM
  #72  
Justaddwata
My Feedback: (3)
 
Justaddwata's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: RI-USA, RI
Posts: 6,161
Received 9 Likes on 9 Posts
Default RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY!


ORIGINAL: Paul M

Scott, you're a machine. It would have taken me a month to do what you have in a week
Iwas thinking the same thing - plus when I am working with resin the last thing I am thiking of is taking pictures - that stuff kicks quicker than you want most of the time.

Nice work Scott. Definately a great reference guide.
Old 05-19-2009, 10:44 PM
  #73  
Dreamin Hemi
Thread Starter
 
Dreamin Hemi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Milton, DE
Posts: 2,638
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY!

Thanks Matt,

It can be a PITA to get these pictures, but I know I'm a visual learner...so to me the more pictures the better. Fortunately it's been in the 50's and 60's here in Delaware lately while I'm doing this glass work so I have a little more work time with the resins. Definitely wouldn't have this advantage if I started later in the year with this project.
Old 05-20-2009, 04:56 AM
  #74  
Dreamin Hemi
Thread Starter
 
Dreamin Hemi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Milton, DE
Posts: 2,638
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY!

Another sleepless night after getting back from my part-time job (DJ) leads me back into the shop.

I used disposable wedges designed to remove plugs since they are semi-flexible and will not mar the mold surface. Used a putty knife to carefully separate the flange area, than stuffed one wedge into the opening I created. Using a hammer, gently tapped down opening enough to get a few more wedges along the edge. After just a couple taps down, the separation was easy! Everything came out great... The bubble looking areas on the flange is pva peeling off and simply wipes away with a wet cloth leaving a very shiny and smooth surface.

At this point, I will begin wetsanding with 800, 1000, and finally finish up with 1500 grit wetpaper and use a compound polisher to brighten things up to perfection.
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Zw69288.jpg
Views:	49
Size:	64.0 KB
ID:	1202302   Click image for larger version

Name:	Fa85499.jpg
Views:	51
Size:	78.1 KB
ID:	1202303   Click image for larger version

Name:	Ty65826.jpg
Views:	52
Size:	51.6 KB
ID:	1202304   Click image for larger version

Name:	Ge96933.jpg
Views:	48
Size:	44.3 KB
ID:	1202305   Click image for larger version

Name:	Ql34360.jpg
Views:	53
Size:	48.2 KB
ID:	1202306  
Old 05-20-2009, 06:38 AM
  #75  
HOOTERS racing
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: wyoming, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 189
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Duplicating an existing hull...ETHICALLY!

is this the same hull looks the same nice looking hull if it is    http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Rc-Fibreglass...3A5%7C294%3A50

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.