tbaysal2000

Hi all

I have a BZ1 mod Zenoah which doesn't want to start when I get near the pond!!!!

Once I read here the tips on choking, I started the damn thing at home after 3rd pull with no problems. The revs were not stable but I decided to fix this with adjustments after tests on the water. It was on 95RON gas with 40:1 oil when it started OK but unstable revving.

Then looking at the Bonzi website, I saw that their recommendation is 20:1 to 25:1 oil mixture so I added some more to be about 23:1 and I used 97RON fuel this time and I went to the pond to enjoy my boat's season opening. It was a very very hot day by the way.

At first, it was almost impossible to pull the starter. It felt like it stuck. So I took of the plug and cylinder was wet. Probably happened while driving. There was even excessive gas coming out of carburator. I let the cylinder and plug dry for a while. And then tried again. Pulling the starter became normal but it didn't want to start. After a little choking I was able to start which was only for couple seconds. And then many unsuccessful tries. In every 10-15 pulls it would start but turn off immediatey.

I played with high/low needless by quarter turns up and down and sometimes and same story. Gas stick was set at no touch, quarter level touch etc (which the idle needle should do anyway).

I ended up the day with skins removed from my finger due to pulling and my back seriously hurt and no joy at all.

Please let me know what the problems could be:
- Is higher octane rating fuel not good?
- Can the oil mix suggested by Bonzi misleading (it was just where they wrote about Amsoil 100:1 oil)
http://bonzisports.com/zenoah/zenoah_oil.html
- What should be my needle adjustments for H, L and idle? (I'm at the sea level)

Thanks
Tufan

dicko

You want to run standard pump gas, not high octane with an oil ratio of around 20:1. You should also use a good oil such as Castrol A747 which has properties that allow it to be run in wet conditions.

If your carby & cylinder were flooded on the hot day you may have damaged the diaphram in the carby from the pressure in the tank forcing fuel through the carby & damaging it. This may need to be replaced.

The stock needle settings on a Walbro 257 carb (which from the photo I think yours is) are 1 turn on the high & 2 turns on the low needles.

I hope this helps.

arrowshark

My Feedback: (1)

i had the same engine and raced it with no problem your concern is in the carb you may want to replace tne diaphram on the carb be careful when removing so you know how it came out if it looks warped replace it needle settings should be opend 2 high and 1 on low when choking hold finger over carb opening until you feel gas on finger usually after 2 pulls once this is done on occasion you may have to hold open the carb while cranking to remove any excess gasyou should have a start[X(] i used amsoil from bonzi with no problem at 6 oz to a gallon good luck

BMAD01

Most run 8oz/gal of quality synthetic oil, mainly Honda HP-2 these days. I run 10oz/gal Morgan Cool Power in mt boats. More oil is actually better for the motor. Reset your needles as Dicko said and try er again with 87 octaine pump gas. The higher octaines will not give you more horsepower, they will make your motor run hotter and mess things up with the little amount of oil you are currently running. And get rid of that velocity stack. Brian

tbaysal2000

Thanks all for support. Need to check my carburator valve then.

Regular gas is 95RON and I have about one gallon of 97RON mixed with oil. Would 2 RONs of difference cause such big problem on engine heating?

BMAD01, what is velocity stack and what's wrong with it? I didn't build this boat so I'm not sure what you mean. A picture of a proper one will help.

Hesco Racing

Velocity stack is the part bolted to the carb that venturies the air into it. It has the tendancy to accelerate the air flow and if it is a bad design over-accelerate the air. Generally it has been proven that it actually does not increase the motor in anyway. You do not show your tank but from the note that the motor was flooded when you got to the dam it sounds like you have a ridged tank with no vent. That could also be the reason you have the starting problem. Remove the idle screw otherwise you can not cut the motor with the radio, and they can turn by themselves from vibration and keep the thing running to high when you want to dock. You do not show the whole tune pipe but that pipe length also seems a tad short.

Also take picture a bit further away cause you water piping seems not look like its running right. I know it has not seen the water but maybe we can help before you do break something due to overheating.

Cobus

tbaysal2000

Thanks experts, I think the problem is the diaphram, photo attached. It would be quite to find carb spare where I live. Do you think I can just glue the edges? If not, please let me know an online store who sells those. And do you guys suggest that I still remove the velocity stack in my case? Removing the idle needle is a good suggestion. I have a failsafe connected to gas when radio connection is problem.

I attached more photos of my boat to show the water and fuel pipes. Please let me know if any problems. I also attached the overall look of my Rico hull which I really like the design.

Can I fit a clutch here? I just want a fun sport boat and launching alone, docking is a problem for me when alone. I found this internet guy which is cheaper then Bonzi but still nice CNC work and an interesting design of clutch. I also liked the radio box which locks without radio tape. I have no idea what the boost induction kit helps for.

http://stores.shop.ebay.com/Vapor-Tr...__W0QQ_armrsZ1

tbaysal2000

Forgot to add the photos of diaphram:

glennb2006

You'll need a vent on that fuel tank. It'll not run for long without one.

Glenn

danielplace

The line running straight up likely is the vent. ???

Daniel

Dockman

Your local small engine repair shop should have the diaphram. My was bad and I picked one up at my local repair shop.

danielplace

Oh yea, walbro diaphrams are easily available there. Lots of WT walbro's on weedeater, blowers and the like.

Daniel

Hesco Racing

As the previous chaps said walbro carb spares you should be able to find at most lawnmower repair shops. Just make sure you put it back the same way this one came out or it won't work right. Having the water cooling coming out the back is nice except when you are running with prop spray in the back you would battle to see if their is actually anything coming out and that's important. Must look cool though. Clutch adding is sometimes more a headache than a help. Rather make sure your boat can cut with the Tx and you should be fine to bring it in. Remember if you fit a clutch you have to fit a water pump or you will run it hot while idle-ing on the water.

If that pipe to the deck is in fact the vent then what is the pipe with the cable tie on it? And if it is a vent as soon as you flip that boat you will have water in your fuel. Coiling a longer piece of pipe before it meets up with the deck would help. But still check it after a flip.
And remove the fuel filter and put it on the pipe attached to your fuel pump with which you pump the fuel into the boat. Less things to go wrong.

I hope this helps

Cobus

Hesco Racing

As the previous chaps said walbro carb spares you should be able to find at most lawnmower repair shops. Just make sure you put it back the same way this one came out or it won't work right. Having the water cooling coming out the back is nice except when you are running with prop spray in the back you would battle to see if their is actually anything coming out and that's important. Must look cool though. Clutch adding is sometimes more a headache than a help. Rather make sure your boat can cut with the Tx and you should be fine to bring it in. Remember if you fit a clutch you have to fit a water pump or you will run it hot while idle-ing on the water.

If that pipe to the deck is in fact the vent then what is the pipe with the cable tie on it? And if it is a vent as soon as you flip that boat you will have water in your fuel. Coiling a longer piece of pipe before it meets up with the deck would help. But still check it after a flip.
And remove the fuel filter and put it on the pipe attached to your fuel pump with which you pump the fuel into the boat. Less things to go wrong.

I hope this helps

Cobus

tbaysal2000

The pipe going up is the went. I'm also worried that water will flood in the tank if boat flips. Maybe I should extend that with longer pipe is also what I have in mind but if boat flips, pipe will be also down and still take water in, right.

I have no idea why one of the pipes is blocked. It was as is since I purchased and I was able to run the boat last year for short runs like 5 mins at least with this pipe block.

Are you saying to move the fuel filter on the pipe from filler to the tank? Until I took this picture, I never looked carefully to these pipes. It looks like pipe going from the filler to the tank is also the pipe sending the fuel from tank to the carb through the filler. So, putting that to filler/tank pipe means first it will block the dirt pumped to the tank but on the way back, it will take the dirt to the engine. That's why the current place looks better to me. Is there anything I'm thinking wrong?

If I get the clutch, it will be with pump. One of the reasons I didn't get this boat too much on the water is it stalled many times on the water as I'm tuning it not right probably. I would also stall at launch if I'm alone. I just assume clutch should be more foregiving. Also just stopping on the water with the pump active and launch from still should be also fun.

glennb2006

The vent should work as a vent where it is, but, it is very susceptible to getting water in there. I'd advise you remove that pipe to below decks, make a coil of a foot or so of pipe and use that as the vent. Then if the boat flips (when the boat flips!!) there is less chance water will get into your petrol. Which is good. :-)

The fuel filter, if you remove it, clean out your tank and connect direct from tank to carb, there is less to go wrong, two less connections to leak and one less filter to block or leak air in at the joint. Just filter the fuel that you pump into the tank and you should be fine.


As to hating zens, a pretty good rule of thumb from my experience, if it won't start within ten pulls, then normally there is something wrong.

It should start and run well enough at idle to allow you to launch and run slow without stalling. Maybe when you get the carb rebuilt you can take it somewhere where there are other boaters and one of them can set your carb and low speed up for you to get you going. Saves some skin and frustration.

Stick with it though, it'll be worth it.

Glenn

Dan S

something else you can do now or in the future is remove the hard tank and use a fuel bag (500ml IV bag), you won't have to worry about water in the fuel ever again.

Dan.

tbaysal2000

This makes me clearly question then the quality of build as I don't remember boats with air vents placed like mine on top. But great advice and I'll move it inside and the the coil. I assume this would delay the water to enter the tank even water gets into the body when it flips. The air vents on the hull are very welcoming for water to enter anyway and without these it is not possible for the engine to breathe.

Probably I should change the topic to "I hate my skills with Zen"

Regarding clutch, why do people use clutch? I will never race my boat but it is more for fun. Clutch will also help to see if during idle if my water cooling pipes are doing the job. But is it easy to attach to the current location? And if the clutch makes the boat less fun, please let me understand why.

Did anyone see those induction kits I mentioned before? Any idea if they are any good for the money?
http://www.vaportrailsrc.com/servlet...-Zenoah/Detail

glennb2006

I don't bother with a clutch, but if you want one and can fit it in, then by all means. It will not solve your current woes though. They are fairly heavy, and you need to ensure you have room to fit one before buying it.

The clutch should not make your boat less fun, but may make it less speedy.

Save your money and don't get the boost bottle. No benefit.

A fuel bag as mentioned will help with the fuel issues, I have converted to them in the last couple of years with success, once correctly filled they are pretty good.

Glenn

Hesco Racing

Looking at it now I have a feeling that the remote filler installed in the line might be your problem. Walbro carbs are great. BUT with the minutist air leak on the suply line and the motor wil not run and start right. A good test is when you get it started and shut it down you should not see any bubbles enter the line to the carb. I think the cable tied line was a filler line which was cut off when the remote filler was fitted. Remove that filler and refit the line (cable tied one) with a M3 (1/8) bolt (make sure it has a shank and then thread) as a stopper. When you refill remove bolt fill and refit. Remove fillers have o-rings in which is prone to leaking.

As Glenn said clutch is nice but more a headache in the long run. And to fit it to your boat would mean possibly modifying engine mounts stuffing tube, throttle linkage, plus making space for a water pump which ain't small either.

Cobus

bullboy8

Just my 2 cents, but if you have a boat flip "belly up" there are other ways water can enter your tank other than the vent. So my advise would be to empty the tank out anyways and put new gas in. I am almost willing to bet that you will most always find a tad of water that has entered in from somewere (WHY RISK IT). And about the bubbles in your "feed" line after running it for a while, that is very true that is a sign of an air leak from somewere. I have that happening on one of my boats, and I still can't find it[>:]

FlogginHarvey

Sounds like you are getting good advice on the motor running issues.

On the clutch, I run one all the other hulls I have and love them...but be very careful on the Rico Classic Offshore you have here. They are supposed to be great in rough water but a bit sensative to CG and setup differences. I just bought a Rico classic from Richie and am building it now and having a blast putting it together....no clutch on this one at Richie's suggestion specifically. Yours looks well-cared for to this point and i bet it will be a hoot torun!!! Hang in there.

Carb issues are a PITA...ya might spend $30 bucks on a new carb just in case...? Might be the best $30 bucks you ever spent??? and then rebuild the old one you have to learn with? That is what I was forced to do on a another in my Scarab...couldn't get it tuned in to save my life...swapped the carby and problem solved! I will rebuild the old one and confirm it works well after...then I know it was done correctly and now understand and can confirm before trying to solve another problem??? I am NOT a carb guy...YET!

tbaysal2000

All of you have been a great great help. Thanks for the time and sincere interest on this. I'm out of town now and when I go, I will have another go if I can find a diaphram around. Having a spare walbro will also not hurt for sure. I'm convinced on the clutch advice as well because I don't want to deal with all the work besides spending extra cash for no good.

FlogginHarvey, what do you mean by CG (for Rico's being sensitive)

bullboy8

What FlogginHarvey is refering to is "Center of Gravity" A.K.A. "CG". Meaning in this case it may be top heavy or weight placement? I'm sure he will elaborate for you We also talk about CG when it come to placing an engine in a boat so the weight is distributed right (not to far back, or forward....BUT we also refer CG to stuff being top heavy) Hope this helps. -Ed

tbaysal2000

Changed the carb diaphram, fuel lines, cleaned the fuel tank (there were some brown particules), cleaned the fuel filter. Changed the air intake line inside the boat and made 3 circles. Removed the idle needle and used the remote control to push the gas lever slightly. High needle 1 turn, Low needle 2 turns.

And I was ready to test at the garden before I go to the pond after attaching water lines the hose for cooling.

After few pulls the fuel reached the carb but didn't start. Played with the needles by quarters and after 20 pulls still nothing. Took of the plug, controlled the electric wire, waited for drying for few minutes and again nothing. Then I was worried about the diaphram (or maybe I attached the gasket to the wrong side) and opened to view if all ok. O noticed that the one side where the needle was quite wet. I dried everything and also thought maybe I didn't screw tight the cap.

And finally it started but stopped after few seconds. I increased the push lever idle control on the remote to max and it went above quarter. And finally it started after few more pulls. I asjusted to high needle to where I can hear the highest revs and it was above half turn. And I didn't feel differences when I adjusted low needle. What am I supposed to feel here? Less rattle at idle? And when I checked where the L was when the boat seemed to rev nicely, I was at this slightly above half for H and L was at almost 4 full turns. So are these normal? I didn't test yet on the water and my test in the garden with water cooling on was just for 5 minutes or so as I was worried of the noise that would bother the neighbours.

I read somewhere about reading the plugs. Can anyone let me know the link to this useful information. And what is the ideal plug gap?