Food For THOUGHT on Boat Design
09-29-2008, 05:35 PM
#27
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RE: Food For THOUGHT on Boat Design
keep it comin', i'm learnin' lotsa cool stuff!
so, who's going to be the first to draft up some plans for a boat with a composite of all this knowledge, and this angle of thinking?????? (or have they, like i said, all new to me!!
)
davey
so, who's going to be the first to draft up some plans for a boat with a composite of all this knowledge, and this angle of thinking?????? (or have they, like i said, all new to me!!
)davey
09-29-2008, 06:22 PM
#28
RE: Food For THOUGHT on Boat Design
Some of the stuff I've seen in other applications and wondered why they didn't used those tricks more often.
In the 5th shot (the one upside down) is one that should see more use than it does. I first saw that style of sponson mod used on a OB tunnel and when I found out why it was done that way I had to try it myself on a junky old hull. It in essence takes away the waters friction from the sides of the sponsons at speed on the straights. How it works in turns I don't know as it may dig in too much. That could be a good thing though as a turn fin should be able to be reduced in size or eliminated altogether!
In the 5th shot (the one upside down) is one that should see more use than it does. I first saw that style of sponson mod used on a OB tunnel and when I found out why it was done that way I had to try it myself on a junky old hull. It in essence takes away the waters friction from the sides of the sponsons at speed on the straights. How it works in turns I don't know as it may dig in too much. That could be a good thing though as a turn fin should be able to be reduced in size or eliminated altogether!
09-29-2008, 06:55 PM
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RE: Food For THOUGHT on Boat Design
Holy Crap! THE Martin Truex just chimed in (Anyone like Nascar? ).
One more "secret" about these sponson the Japanese use (fogot to put it in the sponson section) - they are HOLLOW!! No foam core! I was SHOCKED [X(].
I asked Rod about their strength if they hit a bouy. His reply was, "The boom tube will break before you have to worry about the sponsons". I'm also kinda of glad this is buried so far down - only those who are really serious will find/read it the lazy wont!
D-LO: I already told you Rod is going to draw up some very basic plans for a .12 size rigger that he said I could share.
). One more "secret" about these sponson the Japanese use (fogot to put it in the sponson section) - they are HOLLOW!! No foam core! I was SHOCKED [X(].
I asked Rod about their strength if they hit a bouy. His reply was, "The boom tube will break before you have to worry about the sponsons". I'm also kinda of glad this is buried so far down - only those who are really serious will find/read it the lazy wont!
D-LO: I already told you Rod is going to draw up some very basic plans for a .12 size rigger that he said I could share.
09-29-2008, 07:17 PM
#30
RE: Food For THOUGHT on Boat Design
Oh yeah, I found out about the hollow rear shoes when I worked on the Hammerhead project. We used pink foam for the fronts but only the outside corners and wood on the nose were glued, the wood was attached with double-sided tape to the foam.
09-29-2008, 07:59 PM
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RE: Food For THOUGHT on Boat Design
Here is what i'm trying to understand. Are these just for SAW? What does Rod say about anti trip angles on the sponson outsides?
09-29-2008, 10:59 PM
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RE: Food For THOUGHT on Boat Design
Tom Moorehouse: Thanks for the PM- that IS what I thought you ware asking.... I'm intimated in responding to you because I'm NOBODY and you've done the FireFighter + "x" years of testing.
1) These rigger designs are primarily for HEATRACING (though several aspects ALSO apply to SAW - PM me if you dont get which ones).
2) Rod WARNED me that I'm going to take ALOT of flack on this - According to Rod, the idea of needing "anti chine" on the outside of a sponson is a fallacy!!!!!!!! [X(] You DONT need those angles to prevent the edge from catching water!! It is NOT gonna happen - Use the extended bottom surfaces Rod sketched. Rod was more than pretty adamant on this and said he KNOWS this to be true. Now you can disagree (no problems) but Rod states as an absolute fact that a vertical outer side on the sponson is better than a design that incorporates "chine" (w/2 angles) - just use an extended bottom edge to prevent water from sucking up the side of the sponson (see sketches).
1) These rigger designs are primarily for HEATRACING (though several aspects ALSO apply to SAW - PM me if you dont get which ones).
2) Rod WARNED me that I'm going to take ALOT of flack on this - According to Rod, the idea of needing "anti chine" on the outside of a sponson is a fallacy!!!!!!!! [X(] You DONT need those angles to prevent the edge from catching water!! It is NOT gonna happen - Use the extended bottom surfaces Rod sketched. Rod was more than pretty adamant on this and said he KNOWS this to be true. Now you can disagree (no problems
) but Rod states as an absolute fact that a vertical outer side on the sponson is better than a design that incorporates "chine" (w/2 angles) - just use an extended bottom edge to prevent water from sucking up the side of the sponson (see sketches).
09-29-2008, 11:01 PM
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RE: Food For THOUGHT on Boat Design
Tom Moorehouse: Thanks for the PM- that IS what I thought you ware asking.... I'm intimated in responding to you because I'm NOBODY and you've done the FireFighter + "x" years of testing.
1) These rigger designs are primarily for HEATRACING (though several aspects ALSO apply to SAW - PM me if you dont get which ones).
2) Rod WARNED me that I'm going to take ALOT of flack on this - According to Rod, the idea of needing "anti chine" on the outside of a sponson is a fallacy!!!!!!!! [X(] You DONT need those angles to prevent the edge from catching water!! It is NOT gonna happen IF you use the extended bottom surfaces Rod sketched. Rod was more than pretty adamant on this and said he KNOWS this to be true. Now you can disagree (no problems) but Rod states as an absolute fact that a vertical outer side on the sponson is better than a design that incorporates "chine" (w/2 angles) - just use an extended bottom edge to prevent water from sucking up the side of the sponson (see sketches).
1) These rigger designs are primarily for HEATRACING (though several aspects ALSO apply to SAW - PM me if you dont get which ones).
2) Rod WARNED me that I'm going to take ALOT of flack on this - According to Rod, the idea of needing "anti chine" on the outside of a sponson is a fallacy!!!!!!!! [X(] You DONT need those angles to prevent the edge from catching water!! It is NOT gonna happen IF you use the extended bottom surfaces Rod sketched. Rod was more than pretty adamant on this and said he KNOWS this to be true. Now you can disagree (no problems
) but Rod states as an absolute fact that a vertical outer side on the sponson is better than a design that incorporates "chine" (w/2 angles) - just use an extended bottom edge to prevent water from sucking up the side of the sponson (see sketches).
09-30-2008, 04:40 AM
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RE: Food For THOUGHT on Boat Design
Hey i'll try anything once. I can build a set this winter. Mike Z's Ninja has all the overhanging edges, even on the sponson outsides. He also had the anti trip angle though. I've also seen an electric rigger with straight up sides, but with little balsa blocks attached to the outsides to prevent tripping. I know the electric guys always use the term "Ride Pads" I wonder if it would be even better yet to use a hard/flexible plastic for the bottom. It would have really sharp edges and not require painting.
09-30-2008, 08:47 AM
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RE: Food For THOUGHT on Boat Design
ORIGINAL: TCHedOff
Tom Moorehouse: Thanks for the PM- that IS what I thought you ware asking.... I'm intimated in responding to you because I'm NOBODY and you've done the FireFighter + "x" years of testing.
1) These rigger designs are primarily for HEATRACING (though several aspects ALSO apply to SAW - PM me if you dont get which ones).
2) Rod WARNED me that I'm going to take ALOT of flack on this - According to Rod, the idea of needing "anti chine" on the outside of a sponson is a fallacy!!!!!!!! [X(] You DONT need those angles to prevent the edge from catching water!! It is NOT gonna happen - Use the extended bottom surfaces Rod sketched. Rod was more than pretty adamant on this and said he KNOWS this to be true. Now you can disagree (no problems) but Rod states as an absolute fact that a vertical outer side on the sponson is better than a design that incorporates "chine" (w/2 angles) - just use an extended bottom edge to prevent water from sucking up the side of the sponson (see sketches).
Tom Moorehouse: Thanks for the PM- that IS what I thought you ware asking.... I'm intimated in responding to you because I'm NOBODY and you've done the FireFighter + "x" years of testing.
1) These rigger designs are primarily for HEATRACING (though several aspects ALSO apply to SAW - PM me if you dont get which ones).
2) Rod WARNED me that I'm going to take ALOT of flack on this - According to Rod, the idea of needing "anti chine" on the outside of a sponson is a fallacy!!!!!!!! [X(] You DONT need those angles to prevent the edge from catching water!! It is NOT gonna happen - Use the extended bottom surfaces Rod sketched. Rod was more than pretty adamant on this and said he KNOWS this to be true. Now you can disagree (no problems
) but Rod states as an absolute fact that a vertical outer side on the sponson is better than a design that incorporates "chine" (w/2 angles) - just use an extended bottom edge to prevent water from sucking up the side of the sponson (see sketches).
All interesting, one thing I have long thought about, and you refer to it in you analogy way back in the post with your hand out the car windon and the pitch angles, I wonder if there would be any benefit in having adjustable angles on the sponson top surfaces, they could be hinged at the leading edge then lifted adn dropped by a servo to give downforce as required.
It would be a relatively simple thing to achieve I think.
Glenn
09-30-2008, 06:34 PM
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RE: Food For THOUGHT on Boat Design
tom,
the video of my 12 boat you seen was with sponsons like that..no tripping at all ever!!!! it handles great like this, its free and fast and doesnt do anything stupid..try it and you will like it...
the video of my 12 boat you seen was with sponsons like that..no tripping at all ever!!!! it handles great like this, its free and fast and doesnt do anything stupid..try it and you will like it...
09-30-2008, 07:31 PM
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RE: Food For THOUGHT on Boat Design
ORIGINAL: mtruex
tom,
the video of my 12 boat you seen was with sponsons like that..no tripping at all ever!!!! it handles great like this, its free and fast and doesnt do anything stupid..try it and you will like it...
tom,
the video of my 12 boat you seen was with sponsons like that..no tripping at all ever!!!! it handles great like this, its free and fast and doesnt do anything stupid..try it and you will like it...
did you move the trailing edge further forward?
09-30-2008, 07:49 PM
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RE: Food For THOUGHT on Boat Design
tom,
yes i have moved it forward..i started with it in the location that you designed it with and just the changes to the bottom, it free'd the boat up but the bottoms of the sponsons ended up being too wide and created too much lift, by making them narrower it was a positive, but moving the ride surface forward was a bigger gain in stability..17 inch afterplane is currently working very well..
yes i have moved it forward..i started with it in the location that you designed it with and just the changes to the bottom, it free'd the boat up but the bottoms of the sponsons ended up being too wide and created too much lift, by making them narrower it was a positive, but moving the ride surface forward was a bigger gain in stability..17 inch afterplane is currently working very well..
10-02-2008, 08:13 PM
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RE: Food For THOUGHT on Boat Design
Well I don't have a drawing.... I can draw a set based on what i've read on here.
Hey Cheese.... should we make a set for you to take to flint?
Hey Cheese.... should we make a set for you to take to flint?
10-03-2008, 06:29 AM
#43
RE: Food For THOUGHT on Boat Design
ORIGINAL: mtruex
today i ran 65mph with my .12 hydro in heat race trim guys...even at those speeds it handled great...
today i ran 65mph with my .12 hydro in heat race trim guys...even at those speeds it handled great...
[sm=idea.gif][sm=biggrin.gif][sm=biggrin.gif][sm=biggrin.gif][sm=thumbup.gif].........ain't it fun when a plan all comes together
10-04-2008, 11:47 AM
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RE: Food For THOUGHT on Boat Design
Well... you know someone has to ask..... what's the latest plan?
Does this look about right for the Geraghty inspired sponson?
Does this look about right for the Geraghty inspired sponson?
10-04-2008, 12:48 PM
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RE: Food For THOUGHT on Boat Design
report from gooycheese... he is at the flint record trial and got a 58.2 with his cheese boat... he thinks he can get 60mph. this is officially timed, not gps or radar. he said his radar speed was 61.... he needs to go through the traps straighter.
10-04-2008, 05:43 PM
#49
RE: Food For THOUGHT on Boat Design
ORIGINAL: TomMoorehouse
Well... you know someone has to ask..... what's the latest plan?
Does this look about right for the Geraghty inspired sponson?
Well... you know someone has to ask..... what's the latest plan?
Does this look about right for the Geraghty inspired sponson?
Don't forget.... you have to do something with the back of the boat also.
Even when you change the front sponsons you still are only half way there.