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1/2A Size Dumas Boat Club

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Old 02-23-2009, 10:16 AM
  #26  
jetpack
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Default RE: 1/2A Size Boat Club

I spent a little bit of time last night and worked on my props I've collected for the builds.

These are old vintage O&R props I came upon. They are bronze and come basically in raw form with some balancing performed on them from the factory.

Metal props this size had been extinct until this last year Dumas started to offer their old JG 1" props like I mentioned earlier.

Staying with the first picture, you'll see the first prop as original, the second I have stoned down to 220 grit, the third is hand polished to check my progress with the stones, and the fourth is finished.

I still need to bush the two front props because they are bored to 5/32" and need to come down to 1/8". They are also slightly larger than 1" at 1 1/8" and a tad higher pitched. All four came with the purchase, and I'll be trying the larger ones also when it comes time to test.

If you're more interested in learning how I do my propwork, wander over to the General boating and look for the "Balance and Sharpening" prop sticky at the top where you can read the thread and see where I go more into the process.

You can see the stones in the background, along with the oil cup I dip in when they are used. I brag about it because it's a very good way to polish out if you're going to be doing a lot of props yourself.

The brass tubing behind the props is my bushing material to stuff the two bores that are still large.

I know it isn't a boat which you probably would rather see in the picture, but it is a crutial step in getting one going if you're bound to stay with a copper bronze prop instead of being tied to just a single variety plastic one.
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Old 06-04-2009, 10:47 AM
  #27  
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Default RE: 1/2A Size Dumas Boat Club

Im thinking of joining youre 1/2a boat idea and building a hydroplane powered by a norvel .061. Im stuck on the strut rudder business since ive only build swamp type boats.

any ideas what I need?
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Old 06-04-2009, 07:01 PM
  #28  
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Default RE: 1/2A Size Boat Club

Yep, I settled on buying off an ebay store for my machined aluminum strut, rudder and turn fin for my .049 TeeDee powered Atlas Van Lines and SK-Daddle, Jr.

http://stores.shop.ebay.com/Head-of-...__W0QQ_armrsZ1

He offers a 16"-18" electric hydro with his own hardware that is a perfect combo of parts to use on the nitro Dumas builds.

You'll have to come up with your own coupler for whatever driveline you choose. You'll probably have to check the thread size of your Norvel and have one made like I did. The only wire or cable drive collets are either for electric shafts or start out at too large of thread size.

I am going to use .098 wire to an 1/8" prop shaft and try out a few 1" props.

Your flyweel can come from Dumas along with the props. You might have to drill out the flywheel for your motor.

You'll see in my bench pic there is a Dumas Skee-Vee 10 waiting for me to finish refurbishing my bench tools, a 12" Craftsman Bandsaw and a 14" Delta radial arm drill press. Still looking for the right used strip sander and I'll be set.
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Old 06-04-2009, 09:47 PM
  #29  
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Default RE: 1/2A Size Boat Club

Hi Guys! My 2 cents...Ihave one of the pico .06 in a itty bitty chaos car. when I bought the car I knew the little .05 init wasent any good you can get these engines on e bay from rc boyz and hop up parts for around 40 bucks,,dang good price if you ask me and the little engine absolutley screams it absolutley tears H##l outa the chaos.it has twisted the front hubs apart twice and its not broken in yet....and now thanks to you guys Im wanting to build another boat geez like I need another project..my wife wants something fun but slow this may be the ticket...are there possibly any plans available????? or any kits still available????geeeeez I need another project like I need a hole in the head but this looks like FUNNNNNN well let me know and Jet quit messin with band saws and get to buildin boats the dragns need ya to mine gets primed saturday ......HAVE FUNNNNNNNN YALLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!! Adios Amigo's
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Old 06-05-2009, 07:01 PM
  #30  
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Default RE: 1/2A Size Boat Club

Love the pics Chief , what was that a air filter in the one pic ? I did see a small hydro wood build . here is the link also some great hydros posters ck out the sound &video of the real ones
http://vimeo.com/4157234?pg=embed&sec=
http://www.thunderboatstore.org/1scmimakit.html
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Old 06-05-2009, 07:37 PM
  #31  
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Default RE: 1/2A Size Boat Club

hi jetpack,
I like the idea of building small scale boats. You could really get some nice ideas of the types of boats that could be adapted for nitro running from Dumas or build your own.
I was looking to up grade a 1/10 scale buggy from Redcat that I happen to find out that Redcat and Himoto are one in the same company,or so I was lead to believe.
They offer 1/16 scale vehicles that have .05 and.07 nitro motors in them.
Maybe you might look at them and see if they might be usable to your application.
Might be able to find cooling heads for them.
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Old 06-05-2009, 09:23 PM
  #32  
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Default RE: 1/2A Size Boat Club

Ok Did a little research...there are no more of the little piccos available on e bay but tower hobbys has them for 65 bucks only thing is the ones they have do not come with the pull starter. so you would need to find a tiger drive to start it or find a flywheel to fit it but it is a very good engine..I have the original toki? .05 that came out of my chaos buggy and will try it in what ever hull I wind up using...

Didnt realize it but allready had a couple hulls that look like they fall into this category of hull have a look at them and let me know youre thoughts.... The longer hull is in pretty rough shape I dont know if its salvageable or not again look at the pics and let me know...the shorter hull will be painted and reassembled by this time next week I reinforced the bottom of the abs hull with 3/16 ply epoxied in,added a 1/4 inch transom plate and yes I realize I am probably nuts for this but I did it anyway I hung a K/B 3.5 on the back.. and the hull has been filled with pour foam for extra rigidity as well as flotation.... Ok well Ill be painting this weekend so yalll HAVE FUNNNN
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Old 06-11-2009, 11:29 PM
  #33  
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Default RE: 1/2A Size Boat Club

Ok Hop me up parts on e bay has the toki .05 pull start in stock again for a whopping 19.99 plus like 5 bucks shipping...just an FYI at that price I think ill get 2 of em I bet they will do a bang up job on the little boats..
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Old 06-12-2009, 01:37 PM
  #34  
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Default RE: 1/2A Size Boat Club



Hi Jetpack... I stumbled across this today and it looks to be about the size of these boats (just over 15").... thought I'd bring it to your attention.

http://www.pgimodels.com/product_info.php?products_id=7&osCsid=6ce058424c74 f9401b0bd5f8f4ff4e67


Keep up the good work.... I've enjoyed this thread!

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Old 06-12-2009, 04:37 PM
  #35  
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Default RE: 1/2A Size Boat Club

I too enjoy, Jetpack keep it up
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Old 06-12-2009, 07:10 PM
  #36  
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Default RE: 1/2A Size Boat Club

I've had to set things down for the daily life plus the bench tool resto's, but haven't forgot the 1/2A's.

This week during tv time at the end of the day I straightened and polished the turn fin for the 049 Atlas.

The Atlas hydro now has most all of its hardware and engine ready.

I won some small, ancient chrome clam shell vents to add to the SK-Daddle Jr. kit but they haven't got here yet. Thought it would be nice to add some brightwork to the deck. We'll see how well they fit in when I get the hull going.

Those 1/24th hydro kits look great! Laser cut and vacuum formed cowls...nice! That small of boat has me thinking of the first PeeWee .020 powered hull.[8D]

I am so tempted to buy a Toki...but for some reason I think I would rather look at one first to see how well a flywheel would fit and such with it. Killer little motor though and the price is super tempting!
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Old 06-12-2009, 11:03 PM
  #37  
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Default RE: 1/2A Size Boat Club

I have a set of templates for the Short Stuff. How about a swap for Ski Vee templates? I also have a glass hull of the Short Stuff.

Dave
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Old 06-13-2009, 12:09 AM
  #38  
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Default RE: 1/2A Size Boat Club

Ok ..Bought a brand new toki .05 off e bay today with a header pipe with everything including shipping it was like 34 bucks ....

Since the little engine is pull start does it really need a flywheel??? the cars dont use a flywheel what they have is a flat thin aluminum wheel with a few pins on it to hold clutch springs...
So Im thinking all I need to find is a collet that will fit the threads on the engine and we are in business then.....I will try to find one that fits and let you guys know what I found.....

Dave I would be interested in the fiberglass hull you have..email me or IM me THANKS

Jet if you like the looks of the little toki take a chance and get one they were going fast... no one has comented on my plastic hulls so I guess you guys feel they fit into this little boat world we have created here ...Im going to trash the longer one just to much to make it work but the short one will have color on it and be ready for water by next weekend..Ill take pics of the maiden voyage..be intersting to see how well it does with the K&B on it..

yall HAVE FUNNNNN and take care
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Old 06-18-2009, 09:35 PM
  #39  
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Default RE: 1/2A Size Boat Club

Ok got the new toki .05 in..
The header will work nicely with minor modification....The shaft is short and the end is m4 threads.. I have not yet been able to locate a collet with that thread size.Sooooooo I got ambitiouse today and made a small flywheel for it and tomorrow will make a collet for it when I have them done I will post a couple pics and give you guys a drawing with dimensions...If I can do it you can too ... I am also investigating the possibility of getting a tiger drive starter for the itty bitty engine..

Yall have funnnnn and take care
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Old 09-10-2009, 03:34 PM
  #40  
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Default RE: 1/2A Size Boat Club

who does sell a cox boat to me?
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Old 09-13-2009, 09:41 AM
  #41  
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Default RE: 1/2A Size Boat Club

Hi Robot, that's the big problem you can't buy them you have to build them

I don't know who's selling any that are built right now, but buying and collecting the parts to build one yourself are around like we've been sharing here.
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Old 09-28-2009, 11:47 PM
  #42  
R.J. West
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Default RE: 1/2A Size Dumas Boat Club

Hi Everyone!

I recently won on ebay a new in box 18" dumas atlas van lines kit!  I built one when I was a kid back in the early 80's and it brings back alot of memories. I'm going to order the cooling clamp and the hardware kit # 2314 from dumas. I also picked up a couple Cox engines to try out. A babe bee .049 and a nib Cox surefire .049. I dint know they can be fitted with a throttle? What else do I need to put a throttle on these little guys?
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Old 09-29-2009, 12:37 AM
  #43  
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Default RE: 1/2A Size Boat Club

whoops...meant to say "sure Start .049...also I have a Cox medallion .049
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Old 09-29-2009, 10:01 AM
  #44  
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Default RE: 1/2A Size Boat Club

Hi R.J., Congrats on the Atlas. That was my first boat too. It's was fast with a .049TD as a free runner, no radio.

I haven't looked at the Dumas site for the hardware you ordered, but just to be aware they don't make the long driveshaft anymore for the hydros. I called them about it not too long ago because I am working on getting mine built from just a set of templates, I don't have the kit to work from yet so I decided to go with a wire drive setup and an adjustable strut which I have already bought the parts for. Other than that I'm still minus a cowl and decals but I have scan of them. It's a high res scan but the decals themselves were in really poor condition to start with. I've cleaned up some of it using the computer to try and print out myself a copy.

The best engine you have is that Medallion and for about $20 you could get a throttle sleeve and new cylinder combination from a supplier on ebay. It would fit also on the SureStart and the Bee you have. They are a little slower than the non-throttled type cylinders because the throttle sleeve stops the standart sub-port induction on the piston which basically adds a bit of power.

Other than that type of option for the throttle, the other is to wait for vintage aftermarket retrofits on ebay and pay collector prices on.

You could actually get away with just building a simple pinch system to shut the fuel off when you need to bring it in or such, and just keep it wide open the rest of the time if that suits you. Using a throttle with the Atlas might be something you won't use that much, but I'm going to use one just to play around with because I have a few types to try out. Should be fun.

Keep involved with posting what's going on with your build and thanks for adding!!!! Great that you found this place!
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Old 09-29-2009, 03:49 PM
  #45  
R.J. West
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Default RE: 1/2A Size Boat Club

Hi jetpack!

Oh its going to be alot of fun.   Most of my building experience comes from building 1/16 scale electric hydros from garry finlays plans. I think maybe scaling down some of his plans should work also. Ha! I even have a 22" '69 notre dame hull complete with an old electric thunder cowl laying around doing nothing. Any reconmendations on a small engine for that one? The Dumas hardware kit is really intended for their "short stuff" and similar .049 mono hulls. As far as drive shafts are concerned, I'd like to try a wire drive if possible.  Again I'm using the wire drive setup from his plans mostly because I stocked piled up on the material needed to build them. I also have some octura .098 cable. How long does my driveshaft on the atlas have to be?  As far as radios, I suppose a mini servo for the rudder would work I havent shopped around for radios yet, any reconmendations?  My concern was since I never ran a .049 hydro before was how fast these things can go, and how well they can take a turn, thats why I thought about a throttle. But to come up with something to cut fuel off just to bring the boat in safe sounds like a more reasonable thing.  I didnt realize how many small .049 & up newer and vintage engines there are on ebay....
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Old 09-29-2009, 05:19 PM
  #46  
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Default RE: 1/2A Size Boat Club

Did some soul searching on Dumas web site and they still offer the hardware kit # 2306 for the 18" atlas .049 boat....cost me 21 bux plus 7 for shipping....
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Old 10-03-2009, 11:12 AM
  #47  
R.J. West
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Default RE: 1/2A Size Boat Club

Well Dumas still offers a nice selection of .049 powered boats and running hardware for them. The miss thriftway and Atlas van lines for whatever reasons are discontinued but they sometimes still pop up on ebay.I recently picked up a NIB Dumas atlas for $70.  I bought a used o.k. cub .049 marine to try out and a handfull of Cox .049 medallions, the Tee-dee's are going for at least 100 bux or more and there are sooo many parts out there one can easily supe up a Cox for just a few bux. I even found a site
http://www.vintageglowengines.com/ that may be of interest. They have a modified Cox sureStart .049 with a throttle sleeve already installed so you can be able to have some throttle control and kill the engine when you wanna bring it in. Pretty cool. I have the Atlas and a Short stuff that I'l start working on this week, I'll post my build in a new thread so i dont clog this one up.
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Old 10-03-2009, 11:31 AM
  #48  
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Default RE: 1/2A Size Boat Club

R.J., Looking forward to your builds! The OK Cub engine is going to be okay but they are built kinda like a Testors engine. Lots of smoke and noise, but not much power. I think it has to do with them using a standard short glow plug. With these tiny engines, even the size of the glow plug hole has a big impact on how well they do! Hopefully, you will have a good one on your hands, but nothing beats the power of a Cox engine for .049 size. It really is a shame they fell away like they did. I have a couple of OK Cub engines too. One even has a pull-string recoil starter. I picked them up for a couple of ancient Berkeley Models ducted fan models of jets that I have, mostly just to keep my copies of them period correct. I doubt that I'll ever try and fly with what is in the kit for an impeller and motor, but it's sure going to make a couple of really nice shelf queens.

I sure wish Dumas would come back with those two kits. They do go for unreal prices. I've been trying to snag whatever Atlas that comes up just so I can make a copy of the cowling out of fiberglass. I think probably the largest reason behind Dumas not re-issuing the little Atlas is the advertising contract between the two has run out, and they are not re-newing it. Its a shame that type of issue has to become our issue also with not being able to get the kit.

The Short Stuff kit is still offered I think. Thats a nice little deep V hull and when I get mine I think I'm going to stage it up to run a Cox .09 engine. I think that combination will almost overpower it.
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Old 10-06-2009, 04:49 PM
  #49  
R.J. West
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Default RE: 1/2A Size Boat Club

Hi Jetpak,
 I have a Dumas Short stuff laying around and I noticed thats it reconmends a .09-.10 engine so I think your fine. Theres a Cox Tee-dee .09 on ebay now and a Atlas w/ miss thriftway also just to let you know.

I just won a 18" Dumas Miss Thriftway" on ebay couple days ago, should be home this week...All complete in the box. WhooHoo!

question for ya, uh...how do you start these things? (insert embarassed smile here)  I know how to start a cox when its on a airplane.
I'm familar on starting a nitro inboard engine using a belt,  but an .049?

Now my 18" atlas build is going well. I did cut out lightening holes in the bulkheads and stringers to lose some weight and provide a way for water to drain out, however I disagree with that by adding a micro servo and receiver w/battery pak would add "too much weight" to get up on plane like what was suggested by other modelers. 

My thoughts were to put the servo and receiver up front of the engine, run a flex cable in a aluminum tube back for the rudder. This hull is originally intended for a tethered line, not r/c. And setting up the hardware as it is in the plans probably wont work too good w/ added r/c gear. 

 However my line of thinking is that putting more weight up front to compensate for the added speed by getting the PROPER DRIVESHAFT ANGLE/DEPTH is the key to getting the rpm's outa these cox engines. The way the driveshaft is setup in the plan, yeah I dont think its going handle too well w/ the prop under the hull, I'm thinking real hard about that "head of the river r/c" gear that was mentioned earlier.....



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Old 10-06-2009, 06:53 PM
  #50  
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Default RE: 1/2A Size Boat Club

I wouldn't worry too much about having enough power out of a TD to get up on plane.

When I built my first Atlas, it had a TeeDee engine. Built as a free runner without any radio gear the thing would really scoot. I set it up for circles and once the engine could hit it's power band it was off and running hard. Clean off of the water with the rear wanting to lift. If I set it for straight running to chase with the fishing boat across the lake, the modern 9.9 horse Merc would run neck and neck with it, and that was no slouch. I knew if I was able to adjust the prop shaft more parallel, even more speed could be had but with a solid driveshaft that wasn't possible.

Weight is a serious issue though with this boat. I played around a little at the time by adding a D cell battery for weight in the compartment straight behind the engine bay. It didn't like that too much. The sponsons got up on plane okay but having that weight took away all the speed and even though the engine was trying it just was too heavy and draggy to have any kind of exciting speed about it. I was also using a full 1oz Perfect tank.

Micro radios, if you go with a Berg Micro Stamp reciever and a couple of 9 gram servos, a small 4 cell AAA pack or a LiPo pack I guess is going to weight not even half of a D cell. If you search the 1/8A & 1/2A Airplane forum you will have all the answers on what the lightest combo is out there for a RX package.

I won the Atlas and Thriftway yesterday. I now have a complete Atlas kit and a partial Thriftway kit. I need the templates for the Thriftway. All it looks like is there is the mahogany deck and some sheet scraps. Other than that it is complete with a really nice box. Dang I was jumping up and down when I won. I got both kits for under what just either of them go for seperate. All snow white decal sheets and unmolested cowls, no attic stained boxes either. Fresh as todays. Schweet!

When I build my Atlas I'll be using that .098 wire or cable and an Up the River strut. By putting the strut through the bottom of the boat but keeping the front of the prop clear of the transom I should be able to raise and lower it plus get the right angle for zero trim problems. I am also planning on cutting the whole thing out of 1/32" ply plus lightening holes. If a radio box is kept to just adding a lid to one of the compartments there should not be too much weight added. I might end up keeping the servos by their locations and going with just a small box for the RX and battery.

Keeping the Dumas water jacket out of the picture could help also, and just go with a Cox finned heat sink. However when I ran mine with the heat sink the motor seemed to get too hot anyways and wanted to sag a little so I stopped using it and went back to the cool clamp.

Starting these, I just flipped with my finger. My TeeDee was used to running circles on my control line so it started first pop usually. They have to be hot for that to happen though. The first run was always a pain because of the cold engine. That's where I think a starter and a large O ring around the flywheel would have helped. String starting was a popular way before electric starters though and probably work okay with this if you had someone to hold the boat while you try. I bought a little 1/2A starter and going to machine a V groove pulley at work for it. That will be a total luxury when I go to use it. I would look into something like that if you get frustrated easy with starting.

You're probably not going to see any blow-overs with the Atas, but your going to see more than water puddle off of it that's for sure.

I can't wait for the new babies to get here....
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