Pond Skipper

196g fuel proofed.

Rigger is stout enough to handle some engine but
will be a floater with the low weight Picco should
be light on its feet with a 2oz tank. Robust seasonal
runner for years to come. Testors Electric Pink on the
sponsons.

Set up room has enough space for up to 4oz and .65hp


.

jetpack

My Feedback: (1)

Boogie. Looks good, Skipper. Have you hurt a Picco yet

Pond Skipper

No I have not hurt one or damaged or broke a crank shaft.
I have 3 of them 1 bench tested with the Profi tuned pipe and flying on my DART plane / see page 18.

I will break in this new engine per instructions for the first 4 oz of fuel then take it to the pond for a full
run up with the engine set a bit rich for a few runs check temps along the way the prop for field testing
will be the X427 cut down to 24mm de-tongued cupped a hair.

The engine makes 160w of power the engine should handle a stock prop if the weight is under 440g.
I will use the smaller prop for a few runs to insure the 2.2mm flex cable holds up to the power. The low
weight flywheel is just a aluminum pulley wheel and put no strain on the crankshaft. The coupler is
brass tapped for 4mm thread to suit the engine fit and finish is good so the front bearing should hold up.
Two rubber tubes hold the sponson arm in place for each carbon boom the inner one protects the carbon
tube from the turn fin should I hit something in the water the nylon bolt will shear if need be. Aprrox 1in
of fin stays in the water when turning should be enough grip without being overkill scrubbing speed.

Will vid the maiden voyage will be a good reference run as I improve / tweak the rigger for best top end.
All the same it will be the fastest 1/2A boat in North America as no one has any offerings to date on vid
other than Max's rigger in Europe. My goal is to bust the 60 mph barrier for 1/2A this will be quite remarkable.
I expect 45 mph plus on the first run with unloaded rpm over 37k.
Gear logistics vs empty weight CG check. I will have mine set at 30% off the trailing
edge of the sponson to the prop. The boat will be very stable for its power to weight.
Goal 450g / 15.87oz less fuel. In retrospect the purpose built SAWS boat from
France came in at 360g less fuel, smaller and low weight carbon covered balsa.
I wanted something more robust able to last for many summers, but ultimately
able to handle the power upgrades with the Vertigo .07 and Sirio .09. The .07 should
bust 60mph if the Picco can't. The Sirio could see 75+

Pond Skipper

Cut off three of the cooling fins should still do OK in the Texas heat.
Profiles much better should make a great 1/2A rigger.

Ron Olson

My Feedback: (1)

You still aren't going to need the water cooling lines. The guy that I know who only has enough of the heat sink to hold the combustion chamber in place is a Texan, Glenn Quarles.

Pond Skipper

Hi Ron,
I reviewed around 14 .12 videos observing loaded rpm with my audio tach and found average rpm
between 27k to 31k. The Picco .05 will be topping out at 37k + for now I will play it safe. The rounded
opening in front of the engine will help induce air down across the crank case but things are quite
tight through that area with all the additional's in the way. I will be using OS P8 Cold turbo plugs
do to the high rpm. If the idle suffers I will drop to a med plug. Picco recommends 185F -220F with
this engine. 10% castor 25% nitro no synthetic. For now I will have my fuel guy out of Houston do up
a 1/2 gallon with a mix design of 8% castor / 7% synthetic 25% nitro 60% methanol.

Ron Olson

My Feedback: (1)

Don't be afraid of the nitro, I was running 60% Wildcat in my .12's, they love the stuff.
Glenn was running the Nova Rossi .12's they'll wind up in the 38-40,000 RPM range.
I used to run the Nova Rossi P-7 plugs in my Rossi Niagara on 45%.
Lots of luck to you, I'm anxious to see the videos!

Pond Skipper

Thank you Ron,

Yes if I jump up in the nitro it will run cooler. I will have to source more head shims,
Picco recommends an extra shim with 30% nitro. They don't make the .85cc engines
anymore so have to settle with reasonable wear and tear and plug life. I have one on
a plane and now this rigger with a spare still in the box.

Pond Skipper

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2jiHjk2tDY HD-GQ going +103mph with his .12 Rigger
Published on Feb 19, 2016
2/14/16 Blue Lake in Valdosta, GA
Glenn Quarles blasting a monster +103mph pass with his little .12 outrigger

Topic on this effort:
http://www.intlwaters.com/index.php?showtopic=68782


Readings taken with my audio tach:
First pass 39,274 rpm
2nd pass 40,189 peak was brief but there solid

Glenn used 70% nitro 10% castor and 8% synthetic
.062 wire drive on bearings. ABC1523 modded prop.
Navarossi Plus 12-3 SCT engine custom tuned pipe.

Couldn't find a pic of the rigger though , anyone have some pics?

Ron Olson

My Feedback: (1)

I've seen pix of it but it was a long time ago. There wasn't much to it.
Glenn's been working with Martin Truex Jr. (yes, the NASCAR racer) on his .12's and other boats.
Glenn's the US Nova Rossi distributor, www.novarossi.us . I've bought some engines from him, an air-cooled head for the marine engines and his Texan .12 pipe.
Here's Glenn and Martin. The 2nd shot is the tuned pipe. I'll see if I can dig up a shot of his .12 'rigger. I know where to look on IW.

Ron Olson

My Feedback: (1)

There is a shot of it in the thread.

Pond Skipper

Yes sorry forgot to strike that question after posting the link I saw the pics after logging on at IW.
Here is one for those looking on.. around 20oz less fuel. Great low weight rigger.

Ron Olson

My Feedback: (1)

The fuel tank he used looks like one of Jim Irwin's 2 oz. reserve tank that was made for OB tunnels. Note also how little heat sink he has. To get the most out of them he found out that you have to get the engines up to a good operating temperature. I haven't brave enough to go that far myself though.

Pond Skipper

Yea the engine case it self has quite a bit of fin action must help quite a bit. Interesting he likes a hot pipe and raps it to hold in heat. The aluminum head is taken down to the bare minimums. The tank
is much bigger than my 2oz I think it is more in the 3oz range. Could go to the store and try to hunt down a nylon made shape like that in the ladies pamper section. He has max tank in the space made very good effort.

This side view show the fins better.

Pond Skipper

Updates:

Float tested sits well, the back end isn't underwater whew and no leaks!
Set the sponsons booms up, they are adjustable for prop torque and toe in / out
5.4mm dia. carbon booms, very strong for 1/2A size outrigger.
Elevated the antenna should give me some insurance with range.

CG is at 40%, the rigger is long and wide stance for just a 1/2A engine.
Should be extra stable with less moment arm / weight on the prop.

Pond Skipper

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxYbGQQ1KR8 Published on Oct 2, 2016
Outrigger - Picco .85cc /.0519ci / Profi Tuned Pipe 44,412 rpm
Original designed outrigger hydro for Picco P-Zero
On the end of the 3rd tank I was able to lean it out enough
to get a idea of the top end still rich but on the pipe
should do about 46k no load once the needle is set.
30% nitro 18% castor Will post a maiden launch vid
perhaps next weekend.

Pond Skipper

Ok first documented running 1/2A rigger on You Tube from North America.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gv7EUv6yfvs Published on Oct 9, 2016
1st Run - Picco P-Zero Outrigger Hydro Profi Tuned Pipe
.85cc / .05 ci / 1/2A car engine converted for boat use.
Very stable, needle valve set a bit rich, need to lower
the strut a bit, tracks very well. Will do another vid after
I start tweaking the setup. Stock X427 / 20% castor 30% Nitro.
Plenty of room for improvement yet for a first run this went
rather well, the last few laps started picking up the pace
for such a small 1/2A engine it's amazing how well it moves
this size rigger.

.....

robot797

hey guys i am back
i finaly sailed my boat
but i has a problem
the boat is extremly unstable
and it does not stear propperly
one way it stears to slow and the other way it is to fast (so fast it flips)
can somone give me tips

Pond Skipper

Sure post some pics of your setup including transom, side view of prop depth etc.

Pond Skipper

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDk-nfHewOo Published on Oct 30, 2016

Picco P-Zero .05 / .85cc engine 2nd Vid - Cut Octura to 1426
RPM higher than the stock X427 Per Doppler reading for the
pass at 43 seconds on vid 36,902 rpm / 69.75 km/h - 43.34 mph
Med lift prop. 30% nitro / 20% castor. Prop lift is much better.

Pic of the cut prop used in 2nd vid next to the stock X427 in the first
vid and the Doppler analysis. This prop can be worked some more to
eek up to 40k rpm. Turn fin needs reworking thinner and can be more
narrow. The stock rudder needs to be sharpened the bottom leading
edge was rounded at the factory creating a flat spot that needs to go.
Need to file a flat spot under the strut to help the prop out all this should
bump it up to 46 mph. For 1/2A this is about it with a 1.4P prop. Note prop
calc requires a 11.5% prop slip to match the Doppler reading at 43.3mph.
Will need to move up in pitch thereafter the battle for more speed continues...



...........

Pond Skipper

I bought one of those cheap Hobby King Wooden Sponson Boats as they call them
to have a fuss free build with no cutting to do. The wood quality sucks. It will require
a full epoxy finish to make it stout enough for IC use. The problem is they didn't use
enough glue between the lamination's, least my kit has this issue. Other than that it's
a easy build thus far. Not for sure on the engine may use this SH .07 good for about
170w should put out about 34k rpm on the water.

WestCoastD

nice little outrigger. Should run nice with the SH engine.

Pond Skipper

Thank you yes these engine have some punch 1.14cc / .0696 cu. in.
Should handle some extra pitch in the prop and do at least 34k unloaded good for 50 mph for sure
with calm water. 3 port engine good size ports typical for car engines.

I have used one in a 4 ch airplane I designed called the Skorch with a Profi tuned pipe see vid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PQ4lFsvjvM With the supplied carbon booms you get a good stance. I looked for a vid of the rigger
running in some choppy water to see how it would handle, here is a sample.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15j0Fn1popI They actually make a marine engine:
SH-Engines PT07MSA 1.14cc Marine Engine
Rated at .65 Hp at 31,000 rpm.

WestCoastD

Cool, nice running boat. I would image you could play with exhaust timing and [maybe] make more power?

Curious, how well does the Profi pipe work with a stock Cox Tee Dee .049 or .051? I have a brand-new-in-box, never built, Dumas DV10 Shortstuff (fiberglass). I'm wondering about using my brand-new Cox Tee Dee .051? Will it provide good speed? Or should I be looking for a Profi .8cc engine?

Pond Skipper

I have tried the Dumas Short Stuff with a TD .051 and throttle sleeve if you
run a surface drive out the back of the transom and cut down the X427 to 25mm
de-tongue the low end pitch it will keep the engine running up in the 25k range.
With modern rc gear and low weight battery you can expect a lively boat. Mind
your hardware low weight is key. I have a test vid of the TD on a Profi tuned.
If with the pipe you can expect 27k ish on the water.


I have sourced a nice little turn fin from the same folks that make
the rear hardware. Found it on the Off Shore Elect. site part No. OSE-80042
Called "curved turn fin" a curved leading edge and bent in about 35 degrees
to help grab water in the turns. Hardwood will be needed to inside to support
mounting. Nice kick back fin to keep the stress off the mount.

Second pic takes another look at the AP .09 the high walls on the tub does
a good job of keeping this size engine tucked in protected from water spray.
191g as shown makes the engine a heavy weight option. Would need a min.
2oz tank to get in 10 laps the tub has room for a 3oz tank if need be.
Note many have ran 3S 2200 mah lipo cells common weight is 180 to 200g.
Add the weight of a brushless motor and a 40A esc the IC option would
still be lower in weight fueled up. A small 20oz torque servo for throttle and
45-50oz for the rudder should be enough to motivate the rigger.

Doing a search on all the sites and YouTube I am surprised no one has put a IC engine
in one of these kits as they have been out for quite some time now. A TD .049 to a
to about a sport type 10 engine will work.





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpkuNUdWjCQ Published on Aug 3, 2016
Cox TD .050 / Profi Tuned Pipe / 25,193 Static - HQ Prop 4 x 4.5
Static 7.3 oz thrust / .132 hp / 99w / 107.3 mph /
9.3in MRP / 140 deg timing / Pipe set for 25,215 rpm!