is nitro on its way out?
11-18-2015, 04:16 AM
#76
With electric power, you're wasting precious electrons when taxiing into position, performance is only as good as it will ever be at the beginning of the flight, degrades forever thereafter, and if pushed far enough - the ESC begins pulsing the motor.
With a properly set up glow or gas powerplant, performance is as good as it was intended to be, gets better throughout the flight as the aircraft becomes lighter, and only degrades if the aircraft's fuel/gas supply is completely exhausted...
With a properly set up glow or gas powerplant, performance is as good as it was intended to be, gets better throughout the flight as the aircraft becomes lighter, and only degrades if the aircraft's fuel/gas supply is completely exhausted...
11-18-2015, 07:54 AM
#77
Glow is certainly declining for the same reason as building is declining. Most folks are "flyers" not hobbyists and do not care for the more involved parts of the endeavor that make it a hobby. "Too much trouble" they'll say, or "I don't have the time" or "I don't like cleaning it". A large proportion of these people get bored in a couple of years and drop out, thankfully some get MORE involved and discover one of the many other aspects of the hobby, and become long term modelers.
Similar to golf where some just go to the range to hit a bucket but rarely actually play a round because of the expense, time required or dedication needed to actually play well. Sound familiar? Aren't you still a golfer if you just hit range balls or play only par 3 courses? Sure, just not as involved.
I think that the hobby has always been this way except in the past "flyers" were FORCED to build or deal with glow because that was the only option available, aside from buying built planes from others. For this reason many potential "flyers" did not participate in the past, now they can, and in greater numbers.
The "motorheads", "builders", and the "electronic gurus" have always been with us and still are, and in numbers about the same as before. The "flyers" just have more choices now so that is what they do, fly. It's easier for them now so we see far more of them.
I hope more "flyers" discover the other aspects of the hobby that make it much more interesting and a lifetime experience.
Similar to golf where some just go to the range to hit a bucket but rarely actually play a round because of the expense, time required or dedication needed to actually play well. Sound familiar? Aren't you still a golfer if you just hit range balls or play only par 3 courses? Sure, just not as involved.
I think that the hobby has always been this way except in the past "flyers" were FORCED to build or deal with glow because that was the only option available, aside from buying built planes from others. For this reason many potential "flyers" did not participate in the past, now they can, and in greater numbers.
The "motorheads", "builders", and the "electronic gurus" have always been with us and still are, and in numbers about the same as before. The "flyers" just have more choices now so that is what they do, fly. It's easier for them now so we see far more of them.
I hope more "flyers" discover the other aspects of the hobby that make it much more interesting and a lifetime experience.
Last edited by 049flyer; 11-18-2015 at 08:04 AM.
11-18-2015, 08:09 AM
#78
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Absolutely glow is on the way out, at least out from being the mainstream power system of the hobby. Back before brushless motors and lipos, electric couldn't give you the same power to weight ratio as glow could, but now it can. And before practical CDI ignitions, gassers were too heavy for anything other than huge airplanes and even then were cantankerous to use. But now the best electric systems can actually offer a better power to weight ratio if you don't need more than 10 minutes of flight time, and gassers are lighter, more user friendly, and more powerful than they were. So glow's dominance of the middle size models is definitely going away. The .40-.60 size engines will hang around indefinitely because they can turn more RPM and are cheaper to buy than anything else, but I predict in 10 years glow will be a niche item. I personally think gas will take over as the standard power system for anything .40 and bigger, while electric will dominate everything smaller. And I think that'll be a good thing. I'd love to use $2 a gallon fuel that I can buy anywhere in my model planes!
You make a great point. I think you have hit it right on. People still do rubber power (me included), some things will never go away.
But glow fuels will become less then the normal very soon sadly. They have been a good source of fun for years.
My first engine was a Cox .049 in a plastic Corsair CL, its hard to remember it was 1963 or 1964 I was 8 or 9. I still have that engine and last used it in the nose of a 2 channel glider I built (a Marks Wander).
11-18-2015, 08:20 AM
#79
These three are EDF, they're getting 9 pounds of thrust per 90mm fan, so a twin engine of 18 lbs will have 1:1. I see YouTube 120mm A10's and a Mig 31 that has twin 127mm EDF units. If you don't mind sounding like a hair drier instead of a leaf blower. ;-)
Personally, I like my Bennett mufflered gas Zenoah engines because you can only coax smoke out of an electric once. But taking a size 24 car battery to the field instead of a gallon of glow and something like an X-1 Pro charger I can keep up to continuous flying when I bring three models or multiple battery packs. Once you gear up for electric it is pretty fast to deploy. Like it or not even gas and nitro models need battery management for the transmitter and receiver, so if you plug them in in anticipation of a day at the field it's just as easy to charge a few powder cells.
I still fly nitro . . . but then I hunt with 1960's recurve bows using wood arrows and flintlock rifles and shotguns, keep a large garden and make my own sauerkraut and beer, and my brush-hogging and firewood hauling tractor is a 1956 Ford 640. Some things are worth doing just because of what they represent and the satisfaction they bring when used. And they still do the job well.
Last edited by Charlie P.; 11-18-2015 at 08:28 AM.
11-18-2015, 01:40 PM
#80
I guess the hobby is more personal for me. Building kits and learning how to tune engines....ahhh. I love it! I like learning things (nerd in me) and building, tuning,running,modifications, troubleshooting were all part of the satisfaction for me. Mind you there was lots of frustration at times 
11-18-2015, 05:38 PM
#83
Truthfully right now...I do not fly (no time)I flew R/C for 30 years though. but eventually I will get back into it as the passion is still there so I lurk on these R/C forums 
I miss the old days of kit's and glow. I did love it when fiberglass fuses and sheeted wings started being mainstream though.
I miss the old days of kit's and glow. I did love it when fiberglass fuses and sheeted wings started being mainstream though.
11-18-2015, 08:13 PM
#84
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Depends on your flying style too.....my 6S Extreme Flight MXS Brushless turning a 16x7 prop, will outfly any Nitro plane I've EVER owned! The torque, thrust, and response for 3D and top speed, are hands down incomparable to a similar sized nitro. My nitro planes, 2 strokes needed the RPMS at maximum for any type of good performance, at mid-range, barely stayed in the air. My 4 Strokes, still didn't have the thrust output, an out-runner has.
I still fly nitro on occasion, but more for nostalgia.
For performance, and ease, Gas and Brushless, hands down.
I still fly nitro on occasion, but more for nostalgia.
For performance, and ease, Gas and Brushless, hands down.
11-19-2015, 09:56 AM
#85
R/C: Mode II, started with single channel, 2,3, and full house, mostly sport including some pattern, pylon, and scale in the past, 1/2A, ICDF and EDF, glow/elec helis, 2 meter glow/elec and hi-start/winch gliders, briefly introduced to HLG and float-planes. Favorite airplane to date is still a K&B .40 powered "The Hots" with Irvine Super Silencer.
Have not flown any IMAC, turbines, dynamic soaring, slope soaring, SAM, R/C combat, and others I can't think of at the moment...
C/L: sport only again - never got good enough to compete in stunt but have a desire to (making progress-doing lazy 8's now!) - mostly 1/2A but started flying .25's in the last few years...
Never tried rat racing, speed, combat, carrier, pulse jet...
FF: usually only what it takes to check some idea or concept with a hand launched glider; minimal rubber power experience at best...
Never tried peanut, Bostonian, microfilm, gas/glow except for a FF helicopter with an .020...
Rockets: some.
Full scale: minimal.
Static: for as long as I can remember.
Have not flown any IMAC, turbines, dynamic soaring, slope soaring, SAM, R/C combat, and others I can't think of at the moment...
C/L: sport only again - never got good enough to compete in stunt but have a desire to (making progress-doing lazy 8's now!) - mostly 1/2A but started flying .25's in the last few years...
Never tried rat racing, speed, combat, carrier, pulse jet...
FF: usually only what it takes to check some idea or concept with a hand launched glider; minimal rubber power experience at best...
Never tried peanut, Bostonian, microfilm, gas/glow except for a FF helicopter with an .020...
Rockets: some.
Full scale: minimal.
Static: for as long as I can remember.
Last edited by H5606; 11-19-2015 at 01:38 PM. Reason: One very important overlooked item...
11-19-2015, 03:43 PM
#86
We are $4 a gallon for fuel here. I was $6 for a while. It still costs more to drive to the field than to fuel up the plane though. As us old farts fizzle out, glow might too, younger folks may make it fizzle out at some point, maybe in 20 years or so. It is hard to find a new glow motor in a hobby shop already, but they have no problem ordering them in most shops. H5606, I am guessing you are a bit older, as you said "full house" and flew control line.
Last edited by aspeed; 11-23-2015 at 06:34 AM.
11-19-2015, 06:36 PM
#87
Glow is certainly declining for the same reason as building is declining. Most folks are "flyers" not hobbyists and do not care for the more involved parts of the endeavor that make it a hobby. "Too much trouble" they'll say, or "I don't have the time" or "I don't like cleaning it". A large proportion of these people get bored in a couple of years and drop out, thankfully some get MORE involved and discover one of the many other aspects of the hobby, and become long term modelers.
Similar to golf where some just go to the range to hit a bucket but rarely actually play a round because of the expense, time required or dedication needed to actually play well. Sound familiar? Aren't you still a golfer if you just hit range balls or play only par 3 courses? Sure, just not as involved.
I think that the hobby has always been this way except in the past "flyers" were FORCED to build or deal with glow because that was the only option available, aside from buying built planes from others. For this reason many potential "flyers" did not participate in the past, now they can, and in greater numbers.
The "motorheads", "builders", and the "electronic gurus" have always been with us and still are, and in numbers about the same as before. The "flyers" just have more choices now so that is what they do, fly. It's easier for them now so we see far more of them.
I hope more "flyers" discover the other aspects of the hobby that make it much more interesting and a lifetime experience.
Similar to golf where some just go to the range to hit a bucket but rarely actually play a round because of the expense, time required or dedication needed to actually play well. Sound familiar? Aren't you still a golfer if you just hit range balls or play only par 3 courses? Sure, just not as involved.
I think that the hobby has always been this way except in the past "flyers" were FORCED to build or deal with glow because that was the only option available, aside from buying built planes from others. For this reason many potential "flyers" did not participate in the past, now they can, and in greater numbers.
The "motorheads", "builders", and the "electronic gurus" have always been with us and still are, and in numbers about the same as before. The "flyers" just have more choices now so that is what they do, fly. It's easier for them now so we see far more of them.
I hope more "flyers" discover the other aspects of the hobby that make it much more interesting and a lifetime experience.
11-19-2015, 07:44 PM
#88
H5606, sounds like you are a couple of years younger than me if my math is right. Full House was from the old reed radio days I thought. 6 channels included up, down, left, right. I started at 10 years old as well. Mostly control line. Still like the nitro, but the FAI Speed was kind of cool with no nitro and was a bit finicky but seemed pretty good too.
11-19-2015, 09:26 PM
#89
Never considered myself a 'bit older' as when I look around the room at the local club meeting attendees, still thinking on the younger third... well okay - younger half - of those present... Maybe when we get older, we like to be more optimistic in this regard. Started flying models about age ten and reached half-century mark four years ago; if that makes me a bit older, is it already too late for a mid-life crisis? When I re-read my post, it does sound like an old curmudgeon speaking.
I've done free flight (rubber and glow), hi-start, control like, rocket lift gliders (LOTS of model rockets in the past), glow, gasoline, electric. My latest is a Sonic 64 EDF and it combines combat, glider, jet and sport flyer . . . and I don't need a mowed field to fly it. What a hoot! Wish I had this 40 years ago!
It's as much fun as my old Goldberg Hot Stik - one of my favorite glow models. Dumb-thumbed it flying too fast, too low, too inverted.
Quads - I still don't see the attraction but I haven't ruled them out. Own two and likely will not add a third.
11-20-2015, 07:34 AM
#90
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Altho I only fly gas, the smell of Bryons nitro brings back many good memorys. Kind'a like an addiction, if you see some one luking behind the start stands.................
11-20-2015, 09:35 AM
#91
H5606, sounds like you are a couple of years younger than me if my math is right. Full House was from the old reed radio days I thought. 6 channels included up, down, left, right. I started at 10 years old as well. Mostly control line. Still like the nitro, but the FAI Speed was kind of cool with no nitro and was a bit finicky but seemed pretty good too.
Shame that more don't fly C/L - its the only form of aeromodeling [as described to me] that allows sensory feedback in which you can actually "feel" the aircraft and it's control response and pressures. I saw one electric at a contest a year ago - it was impressive in it's soft-start feature and quietness but seemed out of place amongst all the slimers with their 2-4-2 break.
Last edited by H5606; 11-20-2015 at 04:00 PM.
11-22-2015, 03:21 PM
#96
One way I try to reduce my nitro fuel expense is subscribe to Hobby Town and almost every month they send me a coupon for $5 off of any $25 purchase. Just picked up another 2 gallons for about $32.
11-22-2015, 07:21 PM
#97
Electric power has made a dent in the popularity of small glow power. Small glow tends to be messy and difficult and small electric is pretty cheap and easy to do.
Diesel models need to be really fuel proof ...beyond what my usual iron on covering jobs have ever been. It's a great choice for flying really slow combat with two identically equipped planes.
Diesel models need to be really fuel proof ...beyond what my usual iron on covering jobs have ever been. It's a great choice for flying really slow combat with two identically equipped planes.
11-23-2015, 04:01 AM
#99
After flying gas about four years now I find that it is less complicated, not as problematic, and much more dependable (for the most part tune it once and done - I have planes that were tuned in three years ago and run like a top). The noise is really nice especially with the various exhaust available, and the odor does not bother me at all.
A nice side benefit is cleanup. I used to use a bottle of cleaner about every two to three trips to the field to clean all my glow planes. Now, I take the wings off the plane and slide it in the trailer - done. I still have half a bottle of cleaner left and it mostly gets used now except when I loan it to someone that has a glow plane.
If I had some sort of adverse problems with the odor I am not sure how I would approach that. I have heard that some folks have problems with gasoline odor. I have read somewhere that there are additives that can change the odor although I have never used anything like that.
All this stated, I do know a very small few that like glow and are content with them. That is the nice thing about having different choices.
11-23-2015, 06:21 AM
#100
You're right about the benefits of choices.
I'm still working in the noise level of glow being preferable to gas(?) I never found the screaming "WHEEEEE!" of glow to be preferable to the "Pudda-pudda-pudda-VROOOOM!" of gas models. Must not have had enough prop? The nosiest metered models at our club are the big glow; because of the prop tip speed and not so much the exhaust.
I'm still working in the noise level of glow being preferable to gas(?) I never found the screaming "WHEEEEE!" of glow to be preferable to the "Pudda-pudda-pudda-VROOOOM!" of gas models. Must not have had enough prop? The nosiest metered models at our club are the big glow; because of the prop tip speed and not so much the exhaust.
