is nitro on its way out?
11-23-2015, 06:42 AM
#101
There are some guys flying pylonish type Strykers at my old field. They are using the biggest electric motors that they can scare up. They make about as much noise as a little Cox TD with no muffler. I bet they are a bit faster too. Really, I like the electric idea, the battery is fresh for each flight, with nitro, I only trust three flights per battery pack. I will still use up all my nitro stuff anyway, at least with the .15 size and up. They seem to idle more reliably than the smaller glows, and I don't have to replace puffed up LIPO batteries before I use them. I have had bad luck with them, so much so that I try to avoid them.
12-04-2015, 07:18 PM
#103
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Is nitro on it's way out? I don't believe so! However nitro powered planes will and are going by the wayside. There will still be some that will fly nitro, but they will become few. I still have nitro and gas powered planes, but I mostly fly electric. I built my first plane in 1954 and have seen aspects of this hobby drop off but not go away. By some of the posts I've read here, there is a misconception by some. They refer to electrics as "foamies"! Not all are "foamies"! Precision Aerobatics has a fine line of planes, ARF's, that are wood and carbon fiber. BVM has a electric ducted fan plane that is fiberglass and carbon fiber. Seagull models has wood planes that are electric. Balsa USA has a electric conversion kit for there round engine WW1 planes. My grandson just finished, I believe it's Extreme Flight, 91 inch Extra, that he has made electric! I spent 7 days at the Joe Nall event this year, and the only nitro planes I seen were u-control and heli's. There were a lot of gas on the main flight line and back on the 3D line. There were so many electric planes that they opened a second flight line just for the electric park flyers. Electric powered rc planes isn't new, but over the last few years have really gained popularity. A gentleman by the name of Keith Shaw was one of the pioneers of electric flight. In the early 1990's, he built an IMAA legal 85 inch F8 Bearcat that was electric. I have stayed in this hobby for as long as I have because I welcome new technologies and try to learn about them. I don't look down my nose at someone just because they don't fly what I do! I don't fly or have a turbine, can't afford them, but I love to learn about them. My best friend in our club has several turbines, I really enjoy helping him with them, and when we are done with them, I grab my electric plane and zoom around the sky. Maybe even fly a control line plane. Point is, enjoy what you like to fly and quit worrying about what someone else is flying. Heck, about 4 years ago I got myself an RC Skydiver. Several chute failures and a few landings on roofs, but dang it is fun. MERRY CHRISTMAS to you all!
12-04-2015, 07:45 PM
#104
Completely agree with you turkey hunter. I fly mostly glow, but I'm amazed of some of the other alternatives. I assembled a Great Planes Super Sportster Brushless ARF 48", and it's great, I love it. But most of my planes are glow. I feel it's important to keep an open mind and be willing to learn about other alternative engines. So yeah, fly what you want to fly and have fun.
12-05-2015, 02:45 PM
#105
I flew glow for over 30 years and was great fun, even with some of the issues associated with it. Never tried gas but contemplated it at times but stuck with glow. About 6 years ago tried my first effort at brushless power and was very impressed with my little Sig 39 inch Rascal ... and I still have it but the covering is getting to the point for replacement. Have expanded from there after learning more about electric brushless flight.
Have added fuel this year but this time it is kerosene in those motors that turn round and round at real fast speeds and shoot the exhaust out the end; to make it go.
Have added fuel this year but this time it is kerosene in those motors that turn round and round at real fast speeds and shoot the exhaust out the end; to make it go.
12-05-2015, 03:36 PM
#106
Ok, this is going to sound stupid, but I've flown a lot of glow planes. When I fly my electrics, they are so quiet and clean when I land. Not complaining, but it does require an adjustment.
12-05-2015, 03:43 PM
#107
Moderator
I'm amazed at the number of people who act all snobbish about still flying glow when others have embraced electric or gas. It's not like there is truly a traditional form of rc flying. Power systems, like planes and radios, have been in constant evolution since before the AMA existed. It's all about the most practical power system that gives the best performance for the task at hand. As I said earlier in this thread, i think glow has had its time in the sun. For a long time it was the most practical choice, but gas and electric can now match it for performance with fewer negatives in most applications. I can see glow hanging around in racing and pattern since the high RPM performance helps there, and 4 strokes will probably stay for scale planes because we like the sound. But glow is not the best power system for most other applications anymore, so it will go away.
12-05-2015, 04:02 PM
#108
There is another thing I love about glow/nitro models. When I fly glow, I get this nice coating of castor oil on me that you just can't beat. So I come home, smelling of castor oil, the g/f is reminded of her grandfathers machine shop (she loves it), also she knows I've had a great day, and it was fun for me. So there is actually a big benefit flying glow planes. I know, some will not understand, but there's a lot of us that love it. Also, glow has some significant power right through the whole flight. Hard to beat.
12-05-2015, 04:09 PM
#109
I'm amazed at the number of people who act all snobbish about still flying glow when others have embraced electric or gas. It's not like there is truly a traditional form of rc flying. Power systems, like planes and radios, have been in constant evolution since before the AMA existed. It's all about the most practical power system that gives the best performance for the task at hand. As I said earlier in this thread, i think glow has had its time in the sun. For a long time it was the most practical choice, but gas and electric can now match it for performance with fewer negatives in most applications. I can see glow hanging around in racing and pattern since the high RPM performance helps there, and 4 strokes will probably stay for scale planes because we like the sound. But glow is not the best power system for most other applications anymore, so it will go away.
Gas / ignition engines capture a realistic sound and 4 stroke glow sound so cool.
I just can't imagine a display case full of electric motors generating as much interest at a museum as a nice collection of miniature engines.
Glow fuel isn't that expensive if you source your own ingredients from race car fuel suppliers.
If you go with 75% methanol, 20% oil, 5% nitro the cost is pretty manageable.
What I hate about electric power is how fast 100% power burns off.
What I love about engine power is how the power level is maintained [if not increasing] until the tank is dry.
12-05-2015, 05:32 PM
#110
I flew glow for over 30 years and was great fun, even with some of the issues associated with it. Never tried gas but contemplated it at times but stuck with glow. About 6 years ago tried my first effort at brushless power and was very impressed with my little Sig 39 inch Rascal ... and I still have it but the covering is getting to the point for replacement. Have expanded from there after learning more about electric brushless flight.
Have added fuel this year but this time it is kerosene in those motors that turn round and round at real fast speeds and shoot the exhaust out the end; to make it go.
Have added fuel this year but this time it is kerosene in those motors that turn round and round at real fast speeds and shoot the exhaust out the end; to make it go.
12-05-2015, 11:42 PM
#112
don't.
Gas / ignition engines capture a realistic sound and 4 stroke glow sound so cool.
r
.
What I hate about electric power is how fast 100% power burns off.
What I love about engine power is how the power level is maintained [if not increasing] until the tank is dry.
Gas / ignition engines capture a realistic sound and 4 stroke glow sound so cool.
r
.
What I hate about electric power is how fast 100% power burns off.
What I love about engine power is how the power level is maintained [if not increasing] until the tank is dry.
12-06-2015, 02:48 AM
#113
Originally Posted by combatpigg 
don't.
Gas / ignition engines capture a realistic sound and 4 stroke glow sound so cool.
r
.
1. What I hate about electric power is how fast 100% power burns off.
2. What I love about engine power is how the power level is maintained [if not increasing] until the tank is dry.
3. One of the biggest issues with those that say electric will not give you enough flying time is they don't know how to do proper motor : ESC : Battery and prop match and how they do their flying. I can scale fly my larger Top Flite Cessna 182-60 and get 18 minutes flying time on a set of batteries. To each his own form of power but 4. I don't have dead stick landings... never... never. 5. I would really like to see how many nitro fueled aircraft can really do a full tank of fuel. Sure there will be those that will claim so but think it far an few between.
1. Electrics do not/cannot maintain 100% power of a fully charged battery for the entire flight.
2. Don't know about increasing power, but IC engines can and do maintain 100% of maximum power until the tank is empty.
3. Flying for 18 minutes is not the same as having maximum power available for 18 minutes. That's impossible.
4. Never, never? Big call. I've seen plenty of electrics dead stick.
5. Really?? You need to get out more
12-06-2015, 01:35 PM
#114
Moderator
Show me a glow plane that hasn't been seriously modified that can go full throttle for 18 minutes. 10 minutes, absolutely. As for the power decreasing, all you have to do is pick the motor and prop to give you the power you need at 85% power. Then you take it easy on the throttle for the first 2 minutes or so. It's not complicated.
12-06-2015, 01:55 PM
#115
Originally Posted by combatpigg don't.
Gas / ignition engines capture a realistic sound and 4 stroke glow sound so cool.
r
.
1. What I hate about electric power is how fast 100% power burns off.
Doing a correct power setup build, as I stated ,can work but not with cheap junk .
2. What I love about engine power is how the power level is maintained [if not increasing] until the tank is dry.
You get higher motor torque over the full rpm band ; again not with cheap junk.
combatpigg is correct.
1. Electrics do not/cannot maintain 100% power of a fully charged battery for the entire flight. Very true with cheap setup.
2. Don't know about increasing power, but IC engines can and do maintain 100% of maximum power until the tank is empty. I need to be convinced on that one as not my experience over 30 years of experience. But then never ran tanks dry.as the motors lean out as the level drops. Again depending on tank size.
3. Flying for 18 minutes is not the same as having maximum power available for 18 minutes. That's impossible. Your statement not mine on the 100%. I said I could get up to 18 minutes of scale flying on my Cessna 182
4. Never, never? Big call. I've seen plenty of electrics dead stick. Again ,agree with you when using cheap components that can happen but have never , never had a dead stick landing and have been flying electrics both single and twins for 6 years since I started into electrics.
5. Really?? You need to get out more
As time go on and new batteries are developed longer extended running times will be had.Already Thunder Power have developed slightly higher voltage lipos that maintain their voltage longer.
12-06-2015, 03:26 PM
#116
1. Electrics do not/cannot maintain 100% power of a fully charged battery for the entire flight. Very true with cheap setup.
2. Don't know about increasing power, but IC engines can and do maintain 100% of maximum power until the tank is empty. I need to be convinced on that one as not my experience over 30 years of experience. But then never ran tanks dry.as the motors lean out as the level drops. Again depending on tank size.
3. Flying for 18 minutes is not the same as having maximum power available for 18 minutes. That's impossible. Your statement not mine on the 100%. I said I could get up to 18 minutes of scale flying on my Cessna 182
4. Never, never? Big call. I've seen plenty of electrics dead stick. Again ,agree with you when using cheap components that can happen but have never , never had a dead stick landing and have been flying electrics both single and twins for 6 years since I started into electrics.
1. Even true with expensive set ups.
2. There is no way an electric can have maximum power at the end of the flight as at the start. Tank size will only affect duration, not power.
3. Duration is different to maximum power.
4. I've seen expensive set ups go dead stick.
No I don't run the tank dry when flying. I never said that, that's what the timer is for. What I said is that with IC, maximum power IS available until the tank is empty. Unless not tuned correctly of course. You can't get that with electric.
As with everything, there are pros and cons for each. I think most problems, for both IC and electric, are caused by the pilot. In many cases they blame the equipment when in reality it has been poor set up.
But one thing that will never change, is that electric cannot have the same amount of power available at the end of the flight as at the start. Voltage reduces as battery levels are depleted and with less voltage comes less power.
2. Don't know about increasing power, but IC engines can and do maintain 100% of maximum power until the tank is empty. I need to be convinced on that one as not my experience over 30 years of experience. But then never ran tanks dry.as the motors lean out as the level drops. Again depending on tank size.
3. Flying for 18 minutes is not the same as having maximum power available for 18 minutes. That's impossible. Your statement not mine on the 100%. I said I could get up to 18 minutes of scale flying on my Cessna 182
4. Never, never? Big call. I've seen plenty of electrics dead stick. Again ,agree with you when using cheap components that can happen but have never , never had a dead stick landing and have been flying electrics both single and twins for 6 years since I started into electrics.
So you say you are running your tanks dry every time ? I am not saying that Electrics are the only way but so many make the statement and complain that electrics are no good and in a lot of cases they either expect too much from cheap installations or just hearsay from others and have never really seriously tried electric power except with cheap foamy airplanes.
As time go on and new batteries are developed longer extended running times will be had.Already Thunder Power have developed slightly higher voltage lipos that maintain their voltage longer.
As time go on and new batteries are developed longer extended running times will be had.Already Thunder Power have developed slightly higher voltage lipos that maintain their voltage longer.
2. There is no way an electric can have maximum power at the end of the flight as at the start. Tank size will only affect duration, not power.
3. Duration is different to maximum power.
4. I've seen expensive set ups go dead stick.
No I don't run the tank dry when flying. I never said that, that's what the timer is for. What I said is that with IC, maximum power IS available until the tank is empty. Unless not tuned correctly of course. You can't get that with electric.
As with everything, there are pros and cons for each. I think most problems, for both IC and electric, are caused by the pilot. In many cases they blame the equipment when in reality it has been poor set up.
But one thing that will never change, is that electric cannot have the same amount of power available at the end of the flight as at the start. Voltage reduces as battery levels are depleted and with less voltage comes less power.
12-06-2015, 09:54 PM
#118
Not at all. I play with a few smaller planes up to 60 size, but mainly fly glow. Gradually learning the electric stuff though and keen to learn.
I think we are talking about 2 different scenarios. 100% motor power with the Tx throttle stick at full travel compared to say for eg. 70% motor power with the Tx throttle stick at full travel.
While the throttle stick is at 100% the motor power isn't, so technically it's not 100% maximum motor power. But it would make 100% of 70% power available for longer?
Does this make what I mean clearer? Or am I still looking at it wrong?
12-06-2015, 10:05 PM
#119
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I dont think it will ever be faded out completely, but in my experience I am the only guy around my area that has more electric quads and fpv planes than nitro planes. I live in wayyy south Louisiana and the hobby isnt really huge down here and the closest hobby shop is in New Orleans, and they sell mostly nitro equipment. I order most of my stuff online but theres only one RC Club in my area and its all nitro planes. I liked nitro because it was cheaper and it just seemed cool having an ENGINE, not an electric motor on a small unmanned plane but after getting into fpv and stuff I wanted to switch to electric. I fly electric mostly now but still own a nitro.
02-27-2016, 08:07 PM
#120
My Feedback: (1)
Years ago when 4 strokes came out everyone said 2 stroke motors were dead and gone. Now people say fuel planes are dead because electric and GAS engines are the greatest.The drones will replace fixed wing and ARF planes will do away with building.The answer to your question is "could be but don't hold your breath".
02-29-2016, 06:51 PM
#121
03-01-2016, 08:08 AM
#123
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I can think of a lot of RC related things
we have said good riddance to:
vacuum tube radio equipment.
27 MHz
escapements
ignition points
carbon zinc batteries
rudder only designs
hardwood beam engine mounts
ambroid glue
wooden wheels
un-muffled engines
homemade fuel tanks propellers, etc
lapped iron pistons
probably many more
Glow engines may end up on that
heap, and we'll probably be glad.
Jenny
we have said good riddance to:
vacuum tube radio equipment.
27 MHz
escapements
ignition points
carbon zinc batteries
rudder only designs
hardwood beam engine mounts
ambroid glue
wooden wheels
un-muffled engines
homemade fuel tanks propellers, etc
lapped iron pistons
probably many more
Glow engines may end up on that
heap, and we'll probably be glad.
Jenny
03-01-2016, 11:28 AM
#124
+ 1 on that list. Well maybe .9, I still like maple motor mounts on my F2D combat, it is much lighter than aluminum, and breaks instead of bends. I am just waiting for a better battery that will not blow up, or get puffy. Maybe there is hope with the new Graphene style. I still have a big pile of glow stuff to use up though. It is the best part of my hobby. Flying is really just a test to see if the motor is right. I am sure others opinions differ though.
