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Four Strokes and Sport Flying

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Old 03-14-2005, 10:59 PM
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w8ye
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Default Four Strokes and Sport Flying

I'm just a sport flyer and like the planes that are adaptable to my collection of four strokes. I have two stroke engines/planes also but I prefer the fours

They are not as noisy,

They can run lower speeds for extended periods and then throttle up perfectly

Get good fuel economy

But are very costly.

I have been lately flying a Ultra Stick 40 with a Saito 56

A Slow Poke 40 ARF with a OS 48 four stroke,

A Four Star 60 ARF with a OS 91 four stroke.

I have other planes but these I enjoy more.

I tried to find a Four Star kit at the Store but I guess kits are a thing of the past at the stores anymore?

I saw a seagull Skywalker ARF the other day, That sure seemed like it would be a nice sport plane when the guy gets it going?

Enjoy,

Jim
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Old 03-14-2005, 11:10 PM
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Default RE: Four Strokes and Sport Flying

I've got to agree with you. I'm fast becoming a four stroker too. My current 4-stroke planes are a GP Slow Poke with an OS 52, a Sig hog bipe with an OS 91, and I'm getting ready to start on a GP Ultra Sport 1000 and it'll be home for a YS 120. I still have a Saito 180 with no home right now.

Yes, kit's are taking up less and less shelf space at the LHS. But that doesn't mean they can't be found. If not at the LHS then get them mail-order. I've started buying up kits as I can afford them and stocking my closet with them so I have them in case kits get even more scarce than they are now.
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Old 03-15-2005, 12:13 AM
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William Robison
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Default RE: Four Strokes and Sport Flying

Four strokes sound good? Try a pair of big Saitos on a Cessna Bob Cat with an eight foot wing span.

Marvelous.

Bill.
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Old 03-15-2005, 07:29 AM
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Default RE: Four Strokes and Sport Flying

There is nothing like firing up the OS91 four stroke on my 4*60 and grabbing a lawn chair and just putting around for 20 minutes. Nice and relaxing. The plus comes when I want to crank it up and do not feel like bringing out the biggin's.

A 4*60 with the OS91 turning a 15X6 prop is one great combo in my opinion. [8D]

Bill,

Twin saitos in unison, OOOHHH [sm=sunsmiley.gif]
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Old 03-15-2005, 10:00 PM
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Default RE: Four Strokes and Sport Flying

I seem to be going the other way. I've been flying four strokes for some time (got my first one in 1988), and currently operate three; OS 52 Surpass, Saito 56, Laser 150.

But my next three projects all have two strokes; a Sig Kougar with OS .40 SF that is in the final stages of being covered, a Goldberg Sukhoi ARF that will have an OS 1.60, and a Sig SkyBolt bipe that will have an OS 61 FSR. Not sure how that happened...[X(]
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Old 03-15-2005, 11:51 PM
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Default RE: Four Strokes and Sport Flying

I have a 4 Star 60 with a Saito 80 on it. One of the sweetest combinations ever. Good Luck, Dave
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Old 03-16-2005, 02:28 AM
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w8ye
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Default RE: Four Strokes and Sport Flying

Would you believe a Astro Hog? Has a OS 91 Surpass I. It's my flying friend's favorite plane and he's the one in the picture. It's covered in 21st century fabric.

Enjoy,

Jim
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Old 03-16-2005, 07:56 AM
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Default RE: Four Strokes and Sport Flying

ORIGINAL: w8ye

Would you believe a Astro Hog? Has a OS 91 Surpass I.
Of course I'd believe it. The Hog Bipe just begs to have a 4-stroke on it. The Astro Hog is just a one wing version of the Bipe, and still begs for that 4-stroke. I've got the OS 91 on Bipe.
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Old 03-17-2005, 06:16 PM
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Default RE: Four Strokes and Sport Flying

The interesting thing about 4-strokes that most people don't suspect is their weight. We are used to thinking of 4-strokes as being heavy, but when you get to the mid to larger 4-strokes, .61-.70-.91, they are actually lighter that the corresponding 2-stroke.

For example, a typical 2-stroke .61 weighs between 25-26 ounces with muffler. The .75 and .91s are built in the same case and weigh the same, 25-26 oz. A typical .46 weighs from 16.5 to 18 oz. Here are weights for 4-strokes in the .70-.91 range:

Saito .72 18.5 oz
Saito .91 19.7 oz
Magnum/OS .70 21-22 oz
OS/Magnum .91 22-23 oz

A plane designed for a 2-stroke .61 could need nose weight no matter what .70-.91 4-stroke you put in it.
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Old 03-18-2005, 09:08 AM
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Default RE: Four Strokes and Sport Flying

I also have a 4*60 with an OS91 surpass on it, and a U Can Do 46 with a Saito 72. Both engines are sweet sounding, provide the power/torque that I need, and are very reliable. I am also building a Hog Bipe and will be picking up a Saito 100 GK today after work if it comes in at the LHS. Overall, I am split evenly 2 stroke to 4 stroke (3 - 2strokes, 3 - 4 strokes, and 1 G-26.) So I guess to make it real even I need 2 more gassers...right?
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Old 03-18-2005, 10:10 AM
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Default RE: Four Strokes and Sport Flying

As for me, I don't (and won't) own a 2-stroke over .52 (Except for gas).

Aside for the obvious fact that 2-strokes are great for beginners, due to their low cost and ease of use, 2-strokes are nice for speed, but speed is a perseptual thing - that is, the smaller a plane is, the faster it LOOKS like it's going and the larger it is, the slower it looks, so I don't want any big, fast planes.

Once the size goes up, I am much more into aerobatics, and that's where a 4-stroke shines!
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Old 03-24-2005, 10:51 AM
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Default RE: Four Strokes and Sport Flying

I love 4strokes, but not their prices. The diminutive muffler is a big advantage in scale birds with tight cowls. Often times, if you figure the cost of an aftermarket Pitts muffler to get the 2stroker to fit. the overal cost can get to be almost as much as a 4stroke. However, for a sport plane, particularly an open engine bay (no cowl) like the 4*, the 2 stroke expansion chamber muffler has plenty of room to hang out. To me, the simplicity of a 2stroker fits the spirit of the sport plane much better.

My 4*60 has been flying superbly with an MDS .78 and the OEM muffler. The yet to be covered kit-built 4*120 will receive an ST2300 with OEM muffler.

On larger scale ships the cost differential can be quite staggering. I got a Lanier Extra 300 1.20 ARF back on a trade-in. The previous owner put a Saito 1.80GK on it and had 3D power up the Wazoo. However, the lightweight Saito made the Extra 1.20 a bit tail heavy and he had to put a big ol' Sub"C" battery pack above the fuel tank to balance. I am in the process of replacing the Saito 180 with one of the MDS 1.48s I got dirt cheap after Horizon dumped the line. The little bit of extra noseweight is actually an advantage for balancing. The MDS 1.48 will still have plenty of power for Sport Flying while costing almost 1/3 the Saito 1.80GK.

That said, I just bought a TT .91 4stroke mostly because my 4stroke fleet was getting kinda thin. It will be perfect in a 60-90 size scale bird.
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Old 03-24-2005, 11:45 AM
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Default RE: Four Strokes and Sport Flying

I've been agonizing over these engine decisions for a while and finally realized that, like Mike, I just prefer four strokes for the larger planes.

So I've scrapped the idea of the OS 1.60; gonna put the Laser 150 in the Sukhoi. The Skybolt goes back under the bed, the 61 FSR goes back in the box, and now I need to get a 91 four stroke for the GP AeroMaster that has become the next project.

Volfy, I thought about the TT 91 4S, but I simply cannot bring myself to do it...
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Old 03-24-2005, 12:48 PM
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Default RE: Four Strokes and Sport Flying

I have been flying fourstrokes since 1990 with great success.

I have flown the OS FT 120s and 160s until they have completely worn out.

Here are a couple of pictures of a rebuilt H-9 CAP 232 with a OS FT-160 on board. This is the third one in a row with that combination. All have been great sport aerobatic planes.
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Old 03-24-2005, 01:48 PM
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Default RE: Four Strokes and Sport Flying

Steve, I've always been a TT fan. Quality is every bit as good as OS, at prices substantially lower. Too bad they don't introduce too many new engines these days, 2stroke or 4.

I just have a philosophically objection to plunking down $400 or more for a large 4stroke glow, however nice and powerful it may be, when a gasser with electronic ign can be had for about as much. My preference for inexpensive glow engines probably has to do with the fact that I tend to horde many planes in my hanger and fly each occasionally and some very infrequently. Kinda hard to justify motors costing half a G sitting idle for months on end.

As the madness continues, I just picked up a Moki (now imported as Mark) 2.10 glow, a 1.80 gas, and a 1.35 glow. The "Moki" glow engines can all be had for a little over $200 these days. When you run them on little or no nitro, they are actually very fuel efficient.
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Old 03-24-2005, 05:11 PM
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LSP972
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Default RE: Four Strokes and Sport Flying

I agree that the TT two-strokes are at the top of the heap. But the several four-bangers I've looked at didn't impress me. Lots of tool marks, rough edges, etc. I'm sure they run fine, but....

While I'm certainly not wealthy, I don't mind dropping large bucks if its something I want. I paid over five bills for that Laser 150 and haven't regretted it a day. I would get the Laser 120 for this AeroMaster, but Lasers have the carburetor in an odd spot, and that would necessitate hacking that beautiful wood cowl all up with a side mount. And there's not enough room in the fuselage to get the tank low enough for a inverted mount. I could use a Cline regulator, but I'm a firm believer in KISS; a conventionally-configured engine is necessary for this airplane.

I just wish I had kept one of the several 91 Surpass engines I've owned and loved; I do NOT like the new crankcase vent arrangement meant to appease the enviro-nazis. Still, a buddy has one on a 4 Star 60, and it runs very well. So, I suppose I'll bite the bullet and give The Empire their pound of flesh and pint of blood for a new 91 Surpass...[&o]

I had a gasoline helicopter once. It did fine, but I quickly decided that gasoline is too much of a PITA to deal with; the fumes, need for a fire extinguisher, etc. Yeah, the price of glow fuel is becoming larcenous; but what isn't, these days? Its my hobby, and I'd just spend the money saved on something equally non-essential.
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Old 03-25-2005, 03:12 AM
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Default RE: Four Strokes and Sport Flying

Steve, TT only has two 4strokes. The .54, with the air bleed carb, is not very appealing to me either. The .91 is pretty darn nice.

If you like the almost handcrafted Laser 4strokes, Mark engines (Moki) will be coming out with a line of 4strokes very similar.
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Old 03-25-2005, 07:04 AM
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Default RE: Four Strokes and Sport Flying

My last 3 planes have had a 4 stroke on them. The OS .70. I have had this engine for over a year now and it shows no signs of getting weak. Not to mention that it has only deadsticked on me once, and that was due to a bad plug. At idle, you can count the blades its so slow. It also has never lost it's tune. Right now I have it on my GP cap580 and it pulls the 6lb 13oz plane around very easily. Only 2 stroke I own is the .32 in my heli, and that can be finniky as hek sometimes.

Sean
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Old 03-25-2005, 08:40 AM
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Default RE: Four Strokes and Sport Flying

Volfy, the 54 is what I was talking about. And further thought causes me to admit that I was lumping Magnum four strokes in there too. Those things are, well... let us say its not fair to Thunder Tiger.

There are a handful of people on this board whose opinions I take at face value. You're one. If its good enough for you, it warrants a closer look. Hopefully, I'll be able examine a TT 91 at Toledo next week.

Yeah, I'm really impressed with Laser engines. Aside from the cost, their only real drawback is the bizarre placement of the carburetor. It is optimized for an inverted mount, but then you have to get the tank REAL low in the fuselage, and few designs allow for that. I avoid pumps, regulators, etc., if at all possible. I had this engine mounted inverted on an EF Yak 54 with a Cline regulator. It ran okay, but was not as steady and smooth as the side mount you see below. Nothing I could put my finger on, but I just KNEW... it didn't sound right, etc. I didn't keep the airplane long enough for a long-term evaluation; it is a super-light hover-bat for the flip-flop crowd. A very nice model, but not my cup of tea.

Anyway, the pic below gives you an idea of the Laser carb location and equally "different" muffler. It doesn't look so bad on this type of cowl, but you can imagine the hole needed in a round cowl, eh? One can fabricate a simple exhaust extension which takes up far less room; I'll do this for the Sukhoi. But there's not much you can do with that blocky carb perched behind the jug. The Sukhoi has a HUGE cowl that will cover it.

Oh, well... the price to pay for the smoothness and reliability of these things, I guess...
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Old 03-26-2005, 10:21 PM
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Default RE: Four Strokes and Sport Flying


ORIGINAL: William Robison

Four strokes sound good? Try a pair of big Saitos on a Cessna Bob Cat with an eight foot wing span.

Marvelous.

Bill.

I'll bet it does. Try a pair of the RCV 90's turning 16 inch 3-blade props at 1/2 speed on a 1/4 scale CL-215 (96 in wing water bomber) Personally Saitos are my favorite glow engine and I will probably power any of my glow planes with them. I have a 1/5 scale L-4 with a .65, and a Rascal 40 ARF with a .56. However, for 1/4 scale I will more than likely go gas- but I've been eyeing the Honda 4-strokes for that-- and unlike the new Fuji, they can be mounted inverted.
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Old 04-04-2005, 10:18 PM
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Default RE: Four Strokes and Sport Flying

Jim-

I just installed a Saito 72 in my Ultrastick 40, after running a TT 46 (which is an awesome engine) for about a year. It's my first four-stroke and I love it. I had to sort've re-learn how to fly the plane, because the characteristics changed so much... but now with about 10 flights on it I don't think I'd go back to the 46. Now the plane will do anything I ask of it and the bigger prop really lets me explore 3D flying with it... if I get in trouble I just hit the throttle and "blahhhhh" it pulls out of it with ease. I almost went with a Saito 82 but I was concerned about prop clearance.

Are you a member of the Mansfield club? I'd like more info if you are, I'm not too far away.
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