Propwash GC

Yesterday I lost my first low wing to a mid air. It was a Hanger 9 Advance 40. The first time I have left the field without a repairable plane since 1972.

Question is I have a 40 size Great Planes Cub that I was planning on learning tail daggers with prior to flying a 40 size Extra 300 I have.

First advice I got was to skip the Cub and go directly to the Extra, easier to take off the Extra

Any suggestions?


Glen

RCVFR

My Feedback: (7)

Good advice. The Cub is not a good one to learn on. People with prior taildragger experience have a learning curve with the Cub. The Extra will certainly be better for learning the conventional gear, but it is a higher performance plane. Be sure to get some help to get checked out and familiar with it.

Sorry about the loss of your Advance. That stuff happens!

Mike Baldwin

The biggest problems I have seen most people have with tail draggers is having the plane want to circle when they go to full throttle. If you use a very gradual throttle on take off this eliminates most of this problem. I have a Goldberg 40 size cub with a Magnum 70 four stroke on it. If you just bash the throttle on it will spin quicker than you can react, but if you go gradual on the throttle you need no or very little rudder. Just my thoughts.

nickj

Yeah, it's a toss-up. The Extra will handle easier on the ground, but the Cub will be slower in the air. I might go with the Cub, just because you tend to do less damage on the ground when something doesn't happen the way you expect. Although the Cub isn't a very forgiving plane in the air, either, despite it's slower speed. It's a toss-up.

Not24

My Feedback: (1)

The size of the extra will make it a handful in the air. The size of the cub will help to slow things down, and it won't be going as fast on the ground. The key to either is to learn the taildragger handling qualities in no wind.

Propwash GC

Thanks all for the input. I'm leaning towards the cub. It is a used plane and the Extra is new and looks great. I'm sure I can handle the Extra in the air but the thought of major damage to the Extra after the mid air loss has me concerned.

Campy

My Feedback: (1)

A couple of things to remember with taildraggers -

On take off, SLOWLY advance the throttle AND be ready to feed in right rudder AS SOON AS THE TAIL LIFTS to offset the prop torque.

On landing, FLY the plane down until the mains are about 3" off the ground. Then cut your throttle back to idle and SLOWLY feed in up elevator. You should be making a very nice 3 point landing. All you want to do is bleed off speed, not balloon up.

This does take a little practice to get right.

deputydog

Most small Cubs I have seen have been a handfull. Very few are stable on takeoff. Of course its all in how you take off. Most use too much power. The larger the cub, the more stable. Good luck in your decision between the two.

alan0899

G'Day Mate,
Tail draggers are sometimes easier to take off & land than trike planes, just remember to hold FULL up elevator, while taxiing so tail wheel is in contact with the ground, hold full up when taking off, ease the throttle open & as she begins to gain speed release elevator, the tail should come up & hold as much rudder as required to keep straight, advance power progresively until take off speed is reached, then a small amount of up will get her flying, but let her acellerate in the air before you try to climb out too steeply. The speed of the power application depends on the aircraft in question.
Best wishes, Allan

dmrcflyr2

My Feedback: (43)

Propwash

You have been flying since 1972 and have never flown a tail dragger????? You have missed out on about 70% of all planes worth modeling. Contrary to what you have been told the Cub is a fantastic plane to learn on. With as much flying experience as it sounds like you have, there is good advice above.

1. SLOWLY advance the throttle, if you see the plane turning to the left very SLIGHTLY feed in a bit of right rudder. Once the tail in in the air the rudder is very effective. SOme folks will input too much right rundder and ground loop.
2. Let the airplane break ground on it own. 1/2 - 3/4 throttle will get it in the air. Once it has broken ground apply 3/4 - full throttle for climb out.
3. Landing is nothing different than with any other type of plane. On your first attempts do not try for a 3 point landing as that occurs right at the stall point.

Enjot.

David
AMA 336517

Jeff Spicoli

I would really start with something like a Super Sportster 60 or a 4-Star 60 for a taildragger. The 4-star is a very nice, forgiving airplane and would help introduce you to taildraggers.

lalaland

My first taildragger was a goldberg piper cub, full wing and a ST .40 engine on it. With no taildragger experience before, I couldn't get it off the grassy runway. I pulled the ST 40 off and stuck a ST 61 on it. After I tried it again I got it going straight for about 30 feet and opened the throttle way up. That thing took off so fast I didn't have time to think about any rudder. All I could think of was, pull up-pull up! After I got it up in the air that thing just wanted to float on its on. Very easy to land also.

Needless to say I smashed one up a bit last week on takeoff. With a .46 ax on it and not enough ground speed, I pulled up a little too soon and it went into a stall. I started to panic when the plane was going left and then right, then left and then right on the ground. I later found that the reason for that was: the tailwheel was loose causing it to go back and forth. What a nightmare for me on the ground. Luckily I was able to repair it the next day and had it flying again. It also has a tendency to get up on its main wheels pretty quick. Thinking it would nose over, I just let it go on those mains with a (little) rudder control to keep it going straight and it was the most realistic takeoff I ever made. Wow! What a site for me.

My theory is, make sure you have enough power to get you up fast if you don't have much experience trying to control them on a long runway on the ground.

Good Luck. Those cub are easy to fly.......once you get them up!

Damage from my cartwheel after takeoff.....[X(]

broke_n_bummin

If you're running an extra, split your ailerons between channel 1 and 6, give it about 30% flap, trim your elevator and you can go from idle to full throttle straight as an arrow (although you're not going to need full throttle). It'll still want to twist left from the engine torque once it lifts off. Be prepared though. Even with only 30% flap, you're going to be airborne in about 15 feet if you go full throttle from idle. (Depending on your setup). Of course, this is based on my own experience only with my Funtana and OS 70FS w/ 14x4W prop.

TexasAirBoss

My Feedback: (22)

Apples and Oranges. The Cub and the Extra really have little in common and I doubt one would help you fly the other. Cubs are fun to fly, but not as easy as they look. A cub in a cross wind is a ball, but not easy fro the beginner. The Extra just doesn't even know its a tail dragger and requires very little or no tail dragger experience.

Conclusion: If you want to fly aerobatics this summer, build your Extra. However, summer time generally means lighter winds and it might be a good time to build your Cub and enjoy it. Cubs are a great deal of fun to fly.

Propwash GC

Thanks again for all the input. I decided to give the Cub first chance. WOW! While on the ground I have never seen a plane turn so fast in so little space. After many attempts I just kept backing off the throttle advance until I could get a straight run out. Tail lifted and away we went. I feel like if I can get the Cub off the ground I shouldn't have much problem with the rest of them.

I forgot about a Great Planes profile GeeBee I had still in the box so am finishing it up this weekend. With a .46FX it should get off the ground pretty quick.

I am glad I tried the Cub first. I will know what to expect with the Extra and will be more confident having the experiance. I can understand though, how frustrated the average flyer would have been. I just kept trying and would not give up....... Ok, I admit it, I just too stubborn to quit.

Glen

Mike Baldwin

I knew you could figger it out. It takes some practice but after a while it become second nature. Most of my planes are know tail dragers, I just like the ground handleing on windy days. I don't know how many times I have had to go on to the field to get my Sr Falcon because the wind blow it over when trying to turn it come back in after landing. Will never happen with a taildragger. Good flying.