aircrash

Thanks for the response !
Hmm, DS480 clone is not available. Expensive servos is out of the budget, so I may be the first from the company that I`ll use an Emax if I will not manage to get it right with the 919G or the D922.
I may use another gyro though before I put the hand in the pocket.

Hmm, labelle sounds very French, but google makes a contradiction.
Is it like a sewing machine oil, or something like this?
I am only asking as I cannot have access to it, so I can know what you use.

Ian, grease. Just any grease, no special, it does not matter. Well, almost any grease as there are special purpose like in drinking systems.
But any ball bearing grease (lithium), or any graphite grease, or just lithium (general purpose) is OK.
You could use Vaseline too.
The thrust bearing has no high speed load so it just needs some lubrication. Oil will go off quite quickly though, except if you have the tendency to change feathering shafts so quickly as I do.
The grease makes the installation easier too.

Spiros

pushinoldrc

My Feedback: (46)

Please be careful with your choices of grease or oils.  Petroleum based products will deteriorate the plastic and rubber parts in these helicopters.
Vaseline is petroleum based, and other 'silicone' and lithium sprays have petroleum based products in them.
I have been using 'plumbers grease' (which is very similar to dielectric grease, brake caliper grease, and food grade silicone grease) for a while now, and even thought it is very thick when I put it on, it provides good lubrication without being too sticky.  I try to pack grease into all the bearings as the cheap Chinese bearings are of poor quality (hardness?).  I have not had any bearing failures in the recent past, but I am constantly finding failed bearings on other peoples birds.
Spiros... I have not used any of the Emax servos, but I am interested in others opinions about them.  I have used the GS-9650BB on a 500 size bird, and they seem to be working good
B

aircrash

Hi Bryan,

Was it tested as a tail servo? As this is analog, not that it would not work for normal flying I suppose.
The HKS9257 is supposed to be digital. But this does not mean it can handle the 280Hz rate of the LHGY520.
This is something that made me think of changing the servo.
As the DS919MG must be 250Hz capable (maybe more? ) and the MD922 is 274Hz capable.
Now if I had a gyro for digital servos, an early model which were designed for 150 - 250 Hz max, then I would be more relaxed. Now I can`t know if it is the servo, the gyro, the mounting, the settings...

Hmm,Wurth HHS2000 is very good for bearings too. It can get inside but after a while it dries and makes a very good lubricant. Sorry for the poor description.
Now it has changed its name but if you google it I`m sure you`ll find the new one. It was available in the USalso.
It is safe to plastics/paint/rubber as I said before. Well, it says not for prolong use but I never had a problem in any plastic/rubber and of course on paint. Maybe they mention it just to be on the safe side (they are German anyway... )
If he uses grease to only to thrust bearings is OK, but yes, not in every place.

Spiros

aircrash

And Wurth Silicone Lubricant.

Wurth actually is a maker for automotive products and mostly used on service centers. Not only lubricants/sprays but they can supply anything a service center needs, tools, equipment, etc. Your car may have been treated with Wurth. Top quality.
No, I don`t own shares...

fleetz

Ordered a tube of INOX MX6 grease.....easy to get here in Australia, Wurth no quite so therefore went Inox way.

Thanks for all the input.

Regards,

Ian

Flying Fiz

My 2c on lubes;

I think any high quality grease is OK (subject to not being petroleum based)and as far as an oil is concerned most of the heavyweights in this hobby use Tri-flow, which I use and used previously with bikes (of the pedal variety). Its available everywhere quality stuff is sold and it has some great qualities, they make a grease, a dry lube and oils, these products don't attrack and retain dirt and dust, as well as having some other great qualities. If its good enough for the Tour de France bike teams it should do me! I'd feel confident in sayingthe majority of the heliguys in the US would be using this great stuff.

And I'm with Jonesy, I pack my bearings with grease every chance I get, never use oil in them.

Regards,
Phil

Flying Fiz

Jonesy,

Mate, sorry to hear that the Gaui FBL unit isn't working out, at least you got it at the right price.
It sounds to me like your Tx may have some aileron trim activated. If your Tx has a monitor function check that all cyclic servos are exactly sitting at zero. Sometimes they aren't doing so even with no trim added. I'd take all the blades off and fiddle with the settings spooling it up and watching the swash to see if you can get rid of it.  Failing that, I'd probably opt for the ZYX bargain unit.

Brian,

I got to watch your vid of the 500 last night, so happy for you that it is finally flying like it should. It looks and sounds great. Yep they sure do have some presence in the air don't they, with their bigger size, the big motor noise and the blades smackin the air around, just great fun! Yes I agree, give it some more room to stretch its wings (er blades) these things cover serious ground fast, but are such a size that orientation even for our old eyes isn't too much of a problem.

Regards,

Phil

ahamay

I did quite a bit of research last night and it sounds like they were always a bit of a pain to setup. I've got a few things to try but all reports points to a vibration issue confusing the gyro. I'll take all the blades off and see if I can replicate and diagnose from there. Where it's mounted on the side, it's quite close to the main gear so I'm wondering also if the gyro is getting forces put onto it when it gets upto speed from the wind off the maingear. There's not really anywhere else to mount it. I'm sure I checked the trim etc but I'll go over it all again. Thanks for the suggestions.

I have the zyx here I got with the Tarot 450 fbl, Imight have a go at setting that up on it if Ihave no luck. At lease I can use it as a trial run/setup before I start building the Tarot 450 pro.

Flying Fiz

Hi Jonesy,

I would have to agree that on the side of the frame would not be my choice of where to put it.
As you say, I would imagine that the CF frames would get a lot of vibrations (like a wobble board) and those vibes may be absorbed by the gyro. I would think that mounting it in the usual spot, on top of the cage into which the front of the tail boom slots would be best. I would think that a lot of the frame vibes would be dissapated by being absorbed by that.

Phil

aircrash

Hi Jonesy,

Next time Iwish a better luck.
Although you got it with a good sense of houmor I know it`s a painful and discouraging experience.
Some patience and you`ll get it right.
Ilike this part: "rolls to the right wanting to bury itselft into the ground. Fortunately Icould see it before it went over too far"
I know nothing about FBLunits but only have read they are like a gyro. Don`t like subtrim used. So I would avoid this and any other such setting, as travel adjustment.
Is the swashplate type the correct one used in the Tx radio?
Is the aileron and pitch servo plugged as such on the unit? I mean it may need a change between them.
Well, as I said I know nothing about them and I can only post some so you get some encouraging.

PS. And maybe try reversing the unit. FBLunits from what I believe are very close to quadcopter units. Which have a program to monitor the sensors and one gyro is sensing elevator (up or down), the other aileron (left or right) and yaw (left or right).
So if your bird acts normal on elevator but bad on aileron then except of a ail-pitch servo change it may need an upside down mounting the FBLunit. So still the elev sensor is at the same position (pointing the same) but the aileron sensor changes position and so action.
On the other hand I think some units have a reset or programming procedure so to set the mounting position right. (? )

Ihope I did not confuse you, just some ideas, scratch it.

pushinoldrc

My Feedback: (46)

I am using these servos (HKS9250) for cyclic as they fit nice in the frame. I have an Align DS520 on the rudder. It is smaller than the 9250s and required a spacer to fit it in the space.
Ihave ordered more of the 9250s for cyclic on an E-bay 500 frame (JR clone) and a 9257 for the rudder. I will find out what the rate is as Iwill be using the LH GY520 gyro.
B

ahamay

Here I go quoting myself lol.... I forgot to mention I had a quick look at the bags of parts for the Tarot 450 PROFBL and I can see that the quality is a step up from the hobbyking kits. As well everything is hex and anything smaller than a 2mm uses a torx bit. Not a phillips head screw in sight...man I'm happy about that.

jnail

Jonesy, that sounds exactly like what my zyx did the first time i tried it in the house. The roll axis on the gyro was reversed, even though all the others were good.

Jeff

jnail

+1 on the triflow( the regular stuff, the dry lube sucks, because it evaporates in the bottle, leaving just teflon and a clogged tube). as I am a bicyce mechanic by trade, and have a never ending supply. it is safe for everything, and dries nice, leaving the teflon behind. Oh yeah, and it smeels nice too! As far as grease though, I am using di-electric grease, as recomended by the guys in our club with the big helis.

jeff

ingleburn

Hi Guys, well I finally maidened #2 GT. What a relief.
Needed a bit of trim and small adjustment to blade tracking but having problems with the tail. Had the gyro set on 65 to start and had a wag so adjusted it down in steps and the wag only got slower but bigger. Adjusted it then to 70 and it got quicker but smaller. Hope that makes sense buts thats how it was. Finished by going down to 59 but still a slow wag and didnt want to go any lower
Using a Align GP780 and 3DPro servo so open to suggestions on what could be wrong. Maybe a vibration issue or a gyro setting? Forget what I set the delay to but could that be the problem. Anyway here is the vid, I shot 2 but the second 1 didnt work as the cam ran out of batteries. Got to put some grip on my landing pad as you will see.[X(]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhKxjGEkbpo[/youtube]

Flying Fiz

I just stumbled across this deal, I must say I think it is a cracking deal.

The Align heli is like the Gaui lite helis, a lot of lightweight plastic but all great quality. It's built, and RTF, it comes with a Futaba Tx/ recvr, a batt & charger for $460, WOW!  So a direct bit of competition for the Blade 450 kit with the DX6i, and with MUCH better servos and gyro than the blade 450!  Interesting.

http://www.helipal.com/trex-450-plus-rtf.html

Of course you dont get the fun of building it!

Phil

jnail

Hey brian, the 500 looks awesome, but as you said, you have outgrown your fish tank. I had an oscar that did that once, now he probably lives down in your neck of the woods.

check out [link=http://www.scaleflying.com/]this website[/link] for scale fuslelages for that monster, some aren't too badas far as price, like the md500 or the huey. More than the $50 one for the 450 though.

We have had unseasonably warm weather here the last 2 weeks. I spent the last 2 nights at the field getting all my winter projects in the air. So far so good. Also beating the snot out of the mcpx. It flips....as long as you remember to put it in idle up! I was successfully flipping last night until it got too dark to see, and I found the ground. No problem though, a new link and it is back in action

BTW, I orderd some non- eflight links off of ebay, can't remember the name, AEO or something, but they are absolute junk! I don't ever get one pop off, they just break, usually right in half, but twice now, I have actually had the ring part snap.

The poor 450 is still in its box. The only excuse now is that the 2 planes I was maidening use the same battery as the 450, so I need more of them. It will come, I am having too much fun with the mcpx at the moment though.

Also, I can't get Yeungling out here, used to drink way too much of it out east though. Tasty stuff! It comes from Pennsylvania if I am not mistaken?

Jeff

ahamay

Wow...nice one Ingleburn your skills have much improved since the last viddy Iremember. Guess those mcpx's are an exceptional training tool. I just took off my gp780 to play with fbl and if I remember correctly the gain was set at around 78 so maby you need to go a bit higher rather than the other way. Worth a try, you'll know pretty quickly if it's too much. In saying that the gp780 was a ripper gyro, especially after i put a few degrees of pitch on the tail blades at centre stick to give it a head start.

I had mine set on red for delay which I think was 250/450 size.

Flying Fiz

Brian

You just have to get the Sheriff heli fuse from that website link Jeff sent, here it is;

http://www.scaleflying.com/Eurocopte...ze_p_1097.html

Flying Fiz

Hi Ingleburn,

What are the specs for that servo?

You have the DX6i right?  In which case I agree with Jonesy - up the gain a tad - remember the true gain in a DX6i isnt what on the screen - when it says 65% is like 25% true gain (rough and dirty).

But it could be a bit of a vibe from the blades out of tracking (sort of doubt it though), could be lack of authority from the tail rotors, belt tension?? pitch?? could be the servo isn't quite dealing with gyro instructions quickly enough.

I doubt it's the gyro, I've had 4 of those GY780's and not one wag from any of them and I mean not one!

Best,

Phil.

ingleburn

Yeah /i dont think my skills have got better with the 450, just more comfortable with it. Just had a thought back to when I was setting it up. I remember it was about the time you were puting your second kit together and noticed the swash had play in it. Mine did as well and I ordered a new 1 but didnt put it on. Do you think a swash with slop in it could be the problem. Ill go over my setup tomorrow and try a higher gain but if that doesnt work looks like Ill replace the swash.

ingleburn

Hi Phil, this is the servo Im using.

3DPRODS9257MG Digital Metal Gear Coreless Servo (0.048 sec/3.1kg-cm

Rob is using them on some of his.
Blades were a little bit out of track but fixed that
Belt tension was good.
Pitch was the same as #1
Will go over setup tomorrow but as I said in the last post Im sure the swash had some slop so maybe thats the problem.

ahamay

Hey Phil, in your last vid you mentioned about balancing your tail blades. How do you go about doing that ?

Ingleburn, where's the slop in your swash plate ? The one I got in my second GT kit was faulty. Ended up getting a tarot one to replace it.

ingleburn

Im always a sucker for a new toy so I just ordered this Got a spare RX and gyro for it so who knows. Might be a bit of fun

Rob2160

That looks a great deal.. the 450 Plus also looks like a new model from Align, I haven't seen that type of frame before...

I imagine Hobbyking will follow up shortly with the same clone..

I also noticed this deal for Aussies... Pretty good price for a genuine Align Kit...

http://www.wattsuprc.com.au/goods.php?id=697