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HK-450GT CCPM Alloy T-Rex compatible - Part II

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Old 03-23-2012, 02:40 AM
  #101
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Default RE: HK-450GT CCPM Alloy T-Rex compatible - Part II

Hi Spiros,

Not sure what your trying to achieve or to the point resolve with adding the schotty diodes. I understand what they are and do but what is the advantage in voltage dropping the 5v control? What issues are you currently experiencing connecting the servo directly.Schotty switching times are in the nanoseconds so speed is not an issue, the voltage drops are in the order of .15v to around .4V depending on the diode. With and anolog servo a drop in voltage would effect the speed so unless you are looking to slow the action down (damp) then I think the diodes could be problematic.

Regards,

Ian

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Old 03-23-2012, 03:06 AM
  #102
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Default RE: HK-450GT CCPM Alloy T-Rex compatible - Part II

Hi Edmund,

Good weather conditions there. Go get advantage !
Here the weather is fine, sunny and must be 20C, except of the wind.
Have some great fun.

Spiros
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Old 03-23-2012, 03:13 AM
  #103
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Default RE: HK-450GT CCPM Alloy T-Rex compatible - Part II

Thanks Edmund,

Found this thread http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_10...m.htm#10114494 on Rob's trains. I was wondering what the special table was in the video Rob did with his heli collection.....I am suspect model trains ran on top at some point in time.

Cheers,

Ian
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Old 03-23-2012, 03:20 AM
  #104
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Default RE: HK-450GT CCPM Alloy T-Rex compatible - Part II

Hi again Ian,

Well, I ordered a couple of S9257 servo clones, which are meant for 4.8V only systems. Else they burn out fast.
My UBEC outputs 5.3V if I remember right, maybe 5.2V
So I do not want to get my $14 servo exploded Well, it`s not that much but still I`d like to have it running for long time instead of some flights.
Except of a crash caused through a locked servo (not that I do not crash anyway)

Some say they don`t have a problem with the S9257 and its clones even at 5.5V. Some had it burnt down at the second flight.
I don`t want to risk.

Now Align had made such a voltage step-down as they had made an esc that output 6V (or something, I can`t recall) which was not suitable for the Rx or servo (can`t recall).
It uses two HER503 Fast switching diodes. Parallel into different directions.

Now I wanted just some voltage drop, only 0.4V or something close so to get my 5.2-3 to 4.8V the servo must run.

If the Scottky are fast enough not to confuse the signal line, as the gyro will be powered through this module too, then all must be OK.
The servo must be powered @4.8V but the signal line must use 4.8V pulses too, as some say. Of course I don`t know if the gyro will still output (to servo) the same voltage of its input (from Rx) to the signal line or the one it is powered.

So... I ordered them and see how it goes I guess.

Thanks,
Spiros
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Old 03-23-2012, 03:55 AM
  #105
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Default RE: HK-450GT CCPM Alloy T-Rex compatible - Part II


Quote:
ORIGINAL: fleetz

Hi Rob,

Nice to see you back....I think I will buy some shares in E-Flight and sit back and collect dividends on every MCPX you buy.

Are you into model trains too?

Cheers,

Ian
Yep, before RC helicopters I was a train fanatic..

Our club layout came 2nd 2 years running at the Perth show.. I did the smoke and lighting...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mc0U-Ovd7d8

and I kept telling wifey she should be happy.. switching hobbies to RC helicopters was MUCH cheaper...

Any of these three trains below would individually pay for this with change to spare...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=argm1d-q2IA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSPn2ttFeLg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiqLi4XeHVQ

Small details like accurate 4 chuffs per wheel rotation, real smoke and onboard sounds.. these MTH are as good as they come..
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Old 03-23-2012, 04:02 AM
  #106
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Default RE: HK-450GT CCPM Alloy T-Rex compatible - Part II


Quote:
ORIGINAL: fleetz

Thanks Edmund,

Found this thread http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_10...m.htm#10114494 on Rob's trains. I was wondering what the special table was in the video Rob did with his heli collection.....I am suspect model trains ran on top at some point in time.

Cheers,

Ian
You would do Sherlock Holmes proud.. yep.. that was my old train layout.. which became the Heli table...

Funny thing.. I actually ran a train today for the first time in almost 2 years... got bored within 5 minutes and fired up the MCPX...
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Old 03-23-2012, 04:06 AM
  #107
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Default RE: HK-450GT CCPM Alloy T-Rex compatible - Part II


Quote:
ORIGINAL: aircrash

Hi again Ian,

Well, I ordered a couple of S9257 servo clones, which are meant for 4.8V only systems. Else they burn out fast.
My UBEC outputs 5.3V if I remember right, maybe 5.2V
So I do not want to get my $14 servo exploded Well, it`s not that much but still I`d like to have it running for long time instead of some flights.
Except of a crash caused through a locked servo (not that I do not crash anyway)

Some say they don`t have a problem with the S9257 and its clones even at 5.5V. Some had it burnt down at the second flight.
I don`t want to risk.

Now Align had made such a voltage step-down as they had made an esc that output 6V (or something, I can`t recall) which was not suitable for the Rx or servo (can`t recall).
It uses two HER503 Fast switching diodes. Parallel into different directions.

Now I wanted just some voltage drop, only 0.4V or something close so to get my 5.2-3 to 4.8V the servo must run.

If the Scottky are fast enough not to confuse the signal line, as the gyro will be powered through this module too, then all must be OK.
The servo must be powered @4.8V but the signal line must use 4.8V pulses too, as some say. Of course I don`t know if the gyro will still output (to servo) the same voltage of its input (from Rx) to the signal line or the one it is powered.

So... I ordered them and see how it goes I guess.

Thanks,
Spiros
Anyone else confused?
You dont count Ian because I know you know what hes talking about.

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Old 03-23-2012, 04:07 AM
  #108
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Default RE: HK-450GT CCPM Alloy T-Rex compatible - Part II


Quote:
ORIGINAL: aircrash

If the Scottky are fast enough not to confuse the signal line, as the gyro will be powered through this module too, then all must be OK.
The servo must be powered @4.8V but the signal line must use 4.8V pulses too, as some say. Of course I don`t know if the gyro will still output (to servo) the same voltage of its input (from Rx) to the signal line or the one it is powered.
As I took a look at the connection diagram suggestions of the Align 5.1V Two-way Step-down Voltage Regulator
I saw they do not suggest connecting the voltage drop down module just before gyro. Only before the Rx or after the gyro (before the servo).
This must have something to do with the signal line as I thought. It might get confused.
So I`ll just use it before the servo.

*the Align is not actually a 5.1V regulator as the name says. It is just a voltage drop module and the final voltage is depended on the input voltage.

Spiros
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Old 03-23-2012, 04:16 AM
  #109
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Default RE: HK-450GT CCPM Alloy T-Rex compatible - Part II


Spiros,

Just checking, but are you still talking about RC helis? I was expecting to hear about a Flux Capacitor on the tail!

And 16 $9 kits, your kidding right?

Just taking the piss Spiros, couldn't help! :-)
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Old 03-23-2012, 04:18 AM
  #110
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Default RE: HK-450GT CCPM Alloy T-Rex compatible - Part II

On lipo 5 the mCPX smacks into a wall at great speed when I looked away for a second. Blades, links and mainshaft gone. Guess who has to do his first heli repair himself. About time I would think, been more than a year since the last one when the heli hospital guy repaired a CP for me. Luckily a LHS has a spare shaft, rest came with the heli.  

Repairs can wait as I still have 3 other helis to fly today. Last but not least will be the Bug Buzzer 550E.

Edmund.

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Old 03-23-2012, 04:23 AM
  #111
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Default RE: HK-450GT CCPM Alloy T-Rex compatible - Part II


My God Rob, I just watched that clip of your clubs 2010 exhibit at the Perth show - Very Impressive, you guys must have put some serious time and effort into that lot!
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Old 03-23-2012, 04:25 AM
  #112
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Default RE: HK-450GT CCPM Alloy T-Rex compatible - Part II

Quote:
ORIGINAL: ingleburn

Quote:
ORIGINAL: aircrash
Hi again Ian,
Well, I ordered a couple of S9257 servo clones, which are meant for 4.8V only systems. Else they burn out fast.
My UBEC outputs 5.3V if I remember right, maybe 5.2V
So I do not want to get my $14 servo exploded Well, it`s not that much but still I`d like to have it running for long time instead of some flights.
Except of a crash caused through a locked servo (not that I do not crash anyway)
Some say they don`t have a problem with the S9257 and its clones even at 5.5V. Some had it burnt down at the second flight.
I don`t want to risk.
Now Align had made such a voltage step-down as they had made an esc that output 6V (or something, I can`t recall) which was not suitable for the Rx or servo (can`t recall).
It uses two HER503 Fast switching diodes. Parallel into different directions.
Now I wanted just some voltage drop, only 0.4V or something close so to get my 5.2-3 to 4.8V the servo must run.
If the Scottky are fast enough not to confuse the signal line, as the gyro will be powered through this module too, then all must be OK.
The servo must be powered @4.8V but the signal line must use 4.8V pulses too, as some say. Of course I don`t know if the gyro will still output (to servo) the same voltage of its input (from Rx) to the signal line or the one it is powered.
So... I ordered them and see how it goes I guess.
Thanks,
Spiros
Anyone else confused?
You dont count Ian because I know you know what hes talking about.


Junk connected to junk is still junk imho. Personally the more things you add to the equation the more chance of somehting going wrong and potentially injuring yourselft your someone else. Just get stuff that's compatible instead of chasing your tail.



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Old 03-23-2012, 04:28 AM
  #113
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Default RE: HK-450GT CCPM Alloy T-Rex compatible - Part II

Well the sun was shining this afternoon so Icharged a battery and took the 450GT FBL out with the GU-365 Gaui unit and did a successfull maiden. Only had the one battery but I've got a bit of tweaking to do but looks good so far. Looks like the problem was out of balance tail rotor blades.

Sorry about the dodgy video at the end I was trying to fly and not look into the sun.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFmRSoZoUK4&feature=youtube_gdata[/youtube]
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Old 03-23-2012, 04:31 AM
  #114
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Default RE: HK-450GT CCPM Alloy T-Rex compatible - Part II

Quote:
ORIGINAL: Flying Fiz
Spiros,
Just checking, but are you still talking about RC helis? I wasexpecting to hear abouta Flux Capacitor on the tail!
And 16 $9 kits, your kidding right?
Just taking the piss Spiros, couldn't help! :-)
What's Spiros going to do with all those main shaft bushings after he swaps them all out...make a necklace..hahahah

Sorry, just taking the piss as well.

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Old 03-23-2012, 04:41 AM
  #115
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Default RE: HK-450GT CCPM Alloy T-Rex compatible - Part II

Hmm, any S9257, genuine or clone, should be powered at max 4.8V.
Period.
The manufacturer says so.
People say the had failures on 5.5V and more.
Some had failures even at a typical esc`s built-in bec output (5.2V).

So, I don`t think that it has to do with junk or branded.
If anyone does not understand well what I mean then no problem.
I know it is difficult for you as you don`t know Greek and so I post in English.



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Old 03-23-2012, 04:43 AM
  #116
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Default RE: HK-450GT CCPM Alloy T-Rex compatible - Part II

Hey Jonesy,

Well done on the maiden, so glad you got it working. Just wondering if you were doing some pitch pumps there, I assume so and not it being too sensitive to cyclic inputs, but no tail wag to speak of.

Great win to the Broncos tonight. I'm signing off now and looking forward to my maidens tomorrow.
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Old 03-23-2012, 04:46 AM
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Default RE: HK-450GT CCPM Alloy T-Rex compatible - Part II


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Flying Fiz

Hey Jonesy,

Well done on the maiden, so glad you got it working. Just wondering if you weredoing some pitch pumps there, I assume so and not it being too sensitive to cyclic inputs, but no tail wag to speak of.

Great win to the Broncos tonight. I'm signing off now and looking forward to my maidens tomorrow.
Being a Souths supporter it wasnt a good night for me but I hold no grudges.So I wont say I hope your helis fall out of the sky you Cane toad but good luck with the maidens tomorrow.

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Old 03-23-2012, 04:52 AM
  #118
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Default RE: HK-450GT CCPM Alloy T-Rex compatible - Part II


Quote:
ORIGINAL: ahamay

Well the sun was shining this afternoon so Icharged a battery and took the 450GT FBL out with the GU-365 Gaui unit and did a successfull maiden. Only had the one battery but I've got a bit of tweaking to do but looks good so far. Looks like the problem was out of balance tail rotor blades.

Sorry about the dodgy video at the end I was trying to fly and not look into the sun.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFmRSoZoUK4&feature=youtube_gdata[/youtube]
Well done Jonesy, glad you got it sorted. Notice you kept it a fair distance away from you. Looked like a MCPX scooting around. Dont know how you didnt lose it cause I had trouble seeing in the sun.

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Old 03-23-2012, 05:15 AM
  #119
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Default RE: HK-450GT CCPM Alloy T-Rex compatible - Part II


Quote:
ORIGINAL: ingleburn

Anyone else confused?
You dont count Ian because I know you know what hes talking about.

Quote:
ORIGINAL: ahamay

Junk connected to junk is still junk imho. Personally the more things you add to the equation the more chance of somehting going wrong and potentially injuring yourselft your someone else. Just get stuff that's compatible instead of chasing your tail.

Quote:
ORIGINAL: Flying Fiz

Just checking, but are you still talking about RC helis? I wasexpecting to hear abouta Flux Capacitor on the tail!
I`m saying running a Futaba S9257 in a Align T-rex 450 Sport or Pro (it does not matter) super combo, which means with an Align esc, then you should take care of the specifications of the servo. Not just plug it there.
The same applies if your wonderful helicopter is not made by Align but by any other maker. It does not matter.
The same applies if your wonderful helicopter is using different make electronics. Even if it uses super branded such as Castle esc or super junk esc. It does not matter.
All it matters is the S9257 must be powered @4.8V as the manufacturer`s specs and most if not all ESC or BEC output more than 5.2V
If you do not go for a S9257 then you can buy an Align DS520, that`s the closest alternative.
But those who want an S9257 in ther wonderful helicopter then they should take care of this voltage limit.


I don`t know why all I said had no audience.
Most of you run a S9257.
You should be at least interested if not helping.

Spiros

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Old 03-23-2012, 06:03 AM
  #120
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Default RE: HK-450GT CCPM Alloy T-Rex compatible - Part II

Quote:
ORIGINAL: aircrash

I don`t know why all I said had no audience.
Most of you run a S9257.
You should be at least interested if not helping.

Spiros
I would not be too concerned running your clone S9257 from your regulated 5.2 UBEC. If it was running 6v like the align ESC then different story, you'd have to step the voltage down.

To be honest, I learnt to hover with a HXT900 servo on the rudder. Was more than ample to keep a heading whilst Ilearnt to hover. I tried not to overcomplicate things and concentrated on learning to fly.



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Old 03-23-2012, 07:39 AM
  #121
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Default RE: HK-450GT CCPM Alloy T-Rex compatible - Part II


Quote:
ORIGINAL: ahamay

I would not be too concerned running your clone S9257 from your regulated 5.2 UBEC. If it was running 6v like the align ESC then different story, you'd have to step the voltage down.

To be honest, I learnt to hover with a HXT900 servo on the rudder. Was more than ample to keep a heading whilst Ilearnt to hover. I tried not to overcomplicate things and concentrated on learning to fly.
This is an acceptable answer I can tell.
I understand that running it at 5.2V is enough OK to worry much.
I also know that even if the UBECoutputs 5.2V the voltage drops across the power line through the cable`s resistance. Maybe it is already very close to specs.

But I want to be safe.
What I mean.
I know I`ll crash a lot, that`s why I have so many $9 kits. I bought them so to make use of its parts instead of paying the triple or more for just a few parts. I considered all the parts consumable till I learn to fly with no crashes. If I ever.
But I do not want to pay again and again for a tail servo. I prefer to make it run per specs and if I do not succeed making it such then I`ll see what I can do.
The voltage drop module is anyway used by Align, some other pilots use just a diode. I said to go for Scottky diodes so to get a very low voltage drop. I see no experiment there, but sure you never know.

Of course I`ll try more on the servos and gyros I have now. I may use the analog setting on the gyro too.
If the wind calms down.

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Old 03-23-2012, 10:00 AM
  #122
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Default RE: HK-450GT CCPM Alloy T-Rex compatible - Part II

Well, I tested the kit with the DS939MG + DS919MG servos.
I changed gyro mounting foam and added a plate too. Changed delay setting to 3 (was 1) or even tried 4.
Speed setting to 3 (was 1).
Checked the tail slider and tail linkage rod.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bxk9GKR-SAU[/youtube]

It seems the problem persists.
Gyro is in HH mode.
Tail is acting weird even if there is no rudder input. When cyclic input is present the tail acts accordingly like one is affecting the other.
That must be a kind of interference, Ithink.
Either the cyclic servos make this, or the receiver or the harness somehow.
I`ll use a different servo just to check. If it persists then I`ll change the harness layout. I`ll try rebinding again too.
Then gyro.
Of course changing the cyclic servos is the most difficult, so I`ll leave it last.

But I may start testing the cyclic servo inputs when the bird is on throttle hold and see if the tail servo moves.

I may have found the drifting problem of the #2 kit which started after the rebuilding. Rudder trim was not neutral but one step away.
So I`ll try again. The #2 is exactly the same but different servos (HXT900 + MD922).

The good thing is that for a beginner I am doing quite well, if you include that there was some breeze, cars passing by, an RCcar that had lots of fun and some other distracting factors.
Including I had to watch the tail, not only correct it but watch so to see how it is acting.
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Old 03-23-2012, 10:57 AM
  #123
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Default RE: HK-450GT CCPM Alloy T-Rex compatible - Part II


Quote:
ORIGINAL: ahamay

Quote:
ORIGINAL: ingleburn

Quote:
ORIGINAL: aircrash
Hi again Ian,
Well, I ordered a couple of S9257 servo clones, which are meant for 4.8V only systems. Else they burn out fast.
My UBEC outputs 5.3V if I remember right, maybe 5.2V
So I do not want to get my $14 servo exploded [img][/img] Well, it`s not that much but still I`d like to have it running for long time instead of some flights.
Except of a crash caused through a locked servo (not that I do not crash anyway)
Some say they don`t have a problem with the S9257 and its clones even at 5.5V. Some had it burnt down at the second flight.
I don`t want to risk.
Now Align had made such a voltage step-down as they had made an esc that output 6V (or something, I can`t recall) which was not suitable for the Rx or servo (can`t recall).
It uses two HER503 Fast switching diodes. Parallel into different directions.
Now I wanted just some voltage drop, only 0.4V or something close so to get my 5.2-3 to 4.8V the servo must run.
If the Scottky are fast enough not to confuse the signal line, as the gyro will be powered through this module too, then all must be OK.
The servo must be powered @4.8V but the signal line must use 4.8V pulses too, as some say. Of course I don`t know if the gyro will still output (to servo) the same voltage of its input (from Rx) to the signal line or the one it is powered.
So... I ordered them and see how it goes I guess.
Thanks,
Spiros
Anyone else confused? [img][/img]
You dont count Ian because I know you know what hes talking about.


Junk connected to junk is still junk imho. Personally the more things you add to the equation the more chance of somehting going wrong and potentially injuring yourselft your someone else. Just get stuff that's compatible instead of chasing your tail.




I agree with you 100% on the topic of junk, but..... The actual futaba s9257 IS in fact designed to run at 4.8v. I had this one on my 450gt when I first put it together. We DID put the align voltage step down between the gyro and the servo to regulate the voltage, and make it last longer. I don't know what the align step down is bulit from. It apears to be some type of diode shrink tubed into the positive servo wire. If the knockoff s9257 is a direct copy of the futaba version, you probably SHOULD step down the voltage. If you have the tecnical knowledge to build your own, even better.

BUT PLEASE SPIROS! quit buying junk! with all the different servos and gyros you are throwing at this project, you could have bought something decent by now. I have a perfectly good futaba 401 gyro in the box collecting dust. While not the best unit on the planet, it will be better than the leader hobbies crap. IF you want it, give me your address, and I will see about sending it to you. If it gets lost, you are out nothing!

Jeff
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Old 03-23-2012, 12:06 PM
  #124
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Default RE: HK-450GT CCPM Alloy T-Rex compatible - Part II

Hi Jeff,

I`ll try to give you an idea of how I got into the CP.
I bought a Belt-CP V2 and a Belt-CPX at a bargain price. Really cheap. So cheap I thought I would keep them as static models if I can`t fly them.
I like them as a decorating model.
They were so cheap I could take the spare parts from one and save money instead of buying spares.
I said myself I would not buy an expensive radio. If I could fly them as it is or static model...
I thought I would gave a few tries and if I was not able to fly them then no worry.

Then again I found a bargain of the Blade 450 RTF, which would give me a good radio.
I said myself I could afford it and went for it. I thought it was a good choice as I would be able to fly easier with the programmable radio.

Then I realised that now I have already spent quite much I should try to learn no matter what, not just a few tries and then stop using them and get them as static models.
But this means a huge maintaining cost for the Blade or even for the Belt-CP.

So I got a cheap to maintain 450 clone. As the parts costs less than the one third, or even less than that.
I could crash with no worry.
Not only this but I could build a few BNF as I have a limited free time and between crashes I would had to wait too long to repair one then try again.
And the same time I could keep the Belt-CP and the Blade intact.

Of course I got addicted. I like helicopters anyway, it was not a surprise I got addicted.

But even if I have already spent a lot of money, if you ask me what I would do if I had not bought all those but if I would choose just one expensive reliable, good helicopter or those I bought then I would say none.
The luck of a T-rex with good electronics for a beginner is the classifieds. They fly it once, crash at once, the other day is being sold. Noone can afford giving such an amount of money on repairs plus the initial cost. Well, almost noone.

So this is my cheap platform and must be kept cheap. Else there is no point using a T-rex 450 (genuine or clone), I have the Blade anyway and had it before I bought the cheap 450 clones.

Spiros


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Old 03-23-2012, 12:19 PM
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Default RE: HK-450GT CCPM Alloy T-Rex compatible - Part II

I forgot to tell a little more about my thinking.
Especially now that I can`t fly, either cause I don`t have the skills/experience or cause I have a little kid that needs me close, I enjoy much building and all the troubles.
Even this tail trouble.
I enjoy building/repairing/modding a lot more than flying anyway.
Not a surprise I have tons of parts, if I did not had I would not enjoy this hobby. It is like the tools. One missing you can`t do the job.

As you could had seen I painted the fins/paddles/skids/tail blades and even a tail boom although I knew I would crash and destroy them.

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