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HK-450GT CCPM Alloy T-Rex compatible - Part III

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Old 09-16-2012, 02:17 PM
  #276
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Default RE: HK-450GT CCPM Alloy T-Rex compatible - Part III


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ORIGINAL: sgbfly

Geez Roger, that sounds potentially nasty.

Everyone,

I got my HK-450GT rebuilt late last week and gave her a very gentle test flight this morning. So far so good and I'm glad a blade did not disconnect at 0.57 in this video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72_tZXO_hQI

Simon
Roger that would have been scary and fasinating at the same time. Obviously a fault in the blade and glad you wernt hurt.

Simon, good that you are back in the air and heed the warning I left on YT. Good to see Polly is still around.

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Old 09-16-2012, 02:28 PM
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Default RE: HK-450GT CCPM Alloy T-Rex compatible - Part III

Simon she looks great very stable, Roger you are lucky a rotor coming off at over 200mph it's like being in a tornado with debris flying.
 Went to a swap meet today saw lots of things to drool over but the wifie put a limt on purcheses lately!
Besides when i get the hk550 I'm sure i'll need a few things.
The Gaui flys great I had a great time sat. Thanks for posting the videos Bryan and the photographer Cody!!!
    Hugh
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Old 09-16-2012, 03:31 PM
  #278
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Default RE: HK-450GT CCPM Alloy T-Rex compatible - Part III

Glad your ok Roger. What brand blades were they?

Simon, Polly is fearless!
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Old 09-16-2012, 08:47 PM
  #279
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Default RE: HK-450GT CCPM Alloy T-Rex compatible - Part III


Quote:
ORIGINAL: sgbfly

I can't see how the HK head would be at the root of the problem. Bottom line is (imo) fw v3.5 does it and earlier firmwares don't! It's so frustrating as I can really tell a positive difference with the improvments they made in fw 3.5

As for keeping a little forward ele on. Yes that helps to a point, until you want to start amaneuver like a loop and the heli snaps back abruptly all on its own

Simon



Doesn't happen with a Flybar!.
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Old 09-16-2012, 09:27 PM
  #280
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Default RE: HK-450GT CCPM Alloy T-Rex compatible - Part III


Quote:
ORIGINAL: ahamay


Quote:
ORIGINAL: rikybob
Quote:
ORIGINAL: ahamay
My mcpx has been out of action for months and Ihave some parts arriving today to freshen it up. I think when they get to a point when they need major repairs and lots of parts replaced it's better just to buy a new one.

I disagree!!
All the best!
b
Yeah, I'm in two minds with this. If you keep on top of the repairs and replace things as they break then it's ok, but if you let it go and you need a heap of stuff then it adds up. I've just replaced basically everything except the board and servos. About $80 worth. I think next time it will be a brushless conversion.

Jonesy



Yes, I think there is value in keeping the MCPXs updated... I have a bunch of them now and only two fly 100% perfect with zero vibrations.. the others are all very flyable but don't have that "classy" new feel anymore...

Hold off of buying another MCPX though.. have you seen the new mini CP heli from Blade? Looks like a great alternative..

http://www.bladehelis.com/Products/D...ProdId=BLH3300
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Old 09-16-2012, 09:33 PM
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Default RE: HK-450GT CCPM Alloy T-Rex compatible - Part III


Quote:
ORIGINAL: ingleburn


Quote:
ORIGINAL: ahamay


Quote:
ORIGINAL: rikybob
Quote:
ORIGINAL: ahamay
My mcpx has been out of action for months and Ihave some parts arriving today to freshen it up. I think when they get to a point when they need major repairs and lots of parts replaced it's better just to buy a new one.

I disagree!!
All the best!
b
Yeah, I'm in two minds with this. If you keep on top of the repairs and replace things as they break then it's ok, but if you let it go and you need a heap of stuff then it adds up. I've just replaced basically everything except the board and servos. About $80 worth. I think next time it will be a brushless conversion.

Jonesy



Or a 130X .

The 130X is great but there is something about it that does NOT appeal to my like the MCPX.. I can't put my finger on it...

The MCPX is robust and crashable and sort of "expendable"as an aerobatic trainer.. the 130X at $299 just tips over into the NON expendable region for me.. and in all honestly.. my 450 Pro's fly much better than the 130X... for less $$$...

Just my opinion.. I am looking forward to the new Nano CP X which is more durable and seems more capable even than the MCPX..

If anyone wants a 130X with two additional 450 Mah Batteries.. Basically as new.. with all the recommended mods "grommet" Tail etc... I'll part with it for $200 even..
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Old 09-16-2012, 09:41 PM
  #282
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Default RE: HK-450GT CCPM Alloy T-Rex compatible - Part III


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Rob2160


Quote:
ORIGINAL: sgbfly

I can't see how the HK head would be at the root of the problem. Bottom line is (imo) fw v3.5 does it and earlier firmwares don't! It's so frustrating as I can really tell a positive difference with the improvments they made in fw 3.5

As for keeping a little forward ele on. Yes that helps to a point, until you want to start amaneuver like a loop and the heli snaps back abruptly all on its own

Simon

Doesn't happen with a Flybar!.

Funny you should say that.... Iremember my flybar used to pitch up and down flying into a headwind but not as bad as this 3.5 firmware. Previous to 3.5 that pitching was all but eleminated with the 3 axis gyro doing a nice job of correcting to keep it smooth.



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Old 09-16-2012, 09:43 PM
  #283
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Default RE: HK-450GT CCPM Alloy T-Rex compatible - Part III


Quote:
ORIGINAL: sgbfly

Hi Guy's,

It's not just Edmund havng all the fun! This is me heading off on a helicopter flying lesson The second pic is when I had the sticks in a hover(well hover of sorts as I was over correcting - lol)

Simon
Fantastic mate!...
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Old 09-16-2012, 09:45 PM
  #284
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Default RE: HK-450GT CCPM Alloy T-Rex compatible - Part III


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Rob2160

If anyone wants a 130X with two additional 450 Mah Batteries.. Basically as new.. with all the recommended mods "grommet" Tail etc... I'll part with it for $200 even..
That sounds about the price they should have been from new....someone in the market for one will buy it from you.....looks like a good deal.

Jonesy



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Old 09-16-2012, 09:53 PM
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Default RE: HK-450GT CCPM Alloy T-Rex compatible - Part III

Haha Rob, I told ya to keep yer paws off the 130X

Glad the blade ejecting did not injure anyone. The main blades are like knives and the whole thing is one big flying chainsaw!

With one of my MCPXs the tail boom is a little longer than the original, not the full 3cm that was suggested. The result is not a very good tail hold. One thing that will be very difficult to replace is the canopy posts from the main frame. On one of my MCPXs I only have the top 2 canopy posts.

Also Rob you were once mentioning in your videos about you building a HK450GT kit and fitting it with a scorpion motor and a 60 Amp ESC. That would be one ripper of a helicopter!

Fixed my #2 helicopter with a new flybar, main gear and main blades, so that should be all good.

As for the #1, you all said that it was one of the newer HK401b gyros that was causing the tail wag. However I remember Rob being able to hover it with no tail wag with the DX7. Quite perplexing!


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Old 09-16-2012, 10:02 PM
  #286
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Default RE: HK-450GT CCPM Alloy T-Rex compatible - Part III


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Kozzy_98

One thing that will be very difficult to replace is the canopy posts from the main frame. On one of my MCPXs I only have the top 2 canopy posts.
New frame is in order for about 8 bucks but to tie you over this is what I did as Ilost those two pegs as well. Put a bit of velcro on the bottom of the battery tray and the other half on the inside of the canopy and stick it in place. the top posts and this will be good as new.

Jonesy



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Old 09-16-2012, 10:15 PM
  #287
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Default RE: HK-450GT CCPM Alloy T-Rex compatible - Part III

Report back!!!!! YES IT WAS LOTS OF FUN. Changed my "normal" sequence to now include an inverted 15degree nose up 1800 ft long  flyby and then with afterburner selected push it up vertically to 2500 ft height, then into a backwards half loop, flipped it over to normal flight to scream down the runway again, pulled some nice G's doing that.

O btw I did get some heli time in as well in one of the hangers that was emptied for the show.

Simon glad oyu enjoyed your fun flip.

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Old 09-16-2012, 10:15 PM
  #288
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Default RE: HK-450GT CCPM Alloy T-Rex compatible - Part III


Quote:
ORIGINAL: ahamay


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Rob2160


Quote:
ORIGINAL: sgbfly

I can't see how the HK head would be at the root of the problem. Bottom line is (imo) fw v3.5 does it and earlier firmwares don't! It's so frustrating as I can really tell a positive difference with the improvments they made in fw 3.5

As for keeping a little forward ele on. Yes that helps to a point, until you want to start amaneuver like a loop and the heli snaps back abruptly all on its own

Simon

Doesn't happen with a Flybar!.

Funny you should say that.... Iremember my flybar used to pitch up and down flying into a headwind but not as bad as this 3.5 firmware. Previous to 3.5 that pitching was all but eleminated with the 3 axis gyro doing a nice job of correcting to keep it smooth.



Yes I find if I fly as fast as I possibly can (with the help of a dive) it becomes very twitchy and will pitch up dramatically with the tiniest input.. I had to dig deep into my memory banks to figure it out.. but I'd say a combination of retreating blade stall and flap back happening..


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categor...r_aerodynamics
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Old 09-16-2012, 10:23 PM
  #289
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Default RE: HK-450GT CCPM Alloy T-Rex compatible - Part III


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Rob2160

Yes I find if I fly as fast as I possibly can (with the help of a dive) it becomes very twitchy and will pitch up dramatically with the tiniest input.. I had to dig deep into my memory banks to figure it out.. but I'd say a combination of retreating blade stall and flap back happening..


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categor...r_aerodynamics
Interesting reading thanks for that..... now...if we could only send that link to the Taroy zyx firmware programmers and get them to read it and then get them to take out whatever code they decided would be a good idea to address this problem.....coz it's not working !!!

Jonesy




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Old 09-16-2012, 10:26 PM
  #290
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Default RE: HK-450GT CCPM Alloy T-Rex compatible - Part III


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Kozzy_98

Haha Rob, I told ya to keep yer paws off the 130X

Glad the blade ejecting did not injure anyone. The main blades are like knives and the whole thing is one big flying chainsaw!

With one of my MCPXs the tail boom is a little longer than the original, not the full 3cm that was suggested. The result is not a very good tail hold. One thing that will be very difficult to replace is the canopy posts from the main frame. On one of my MCPXs I only have the top 2 canopy posts.

Also Rob you were once mentioning in your videos about you building a HK450GT kit and fitting it with a scorpion motor and a 60 Amp ESC. That would be one ripper of a helicopter!

Fixed my #2 helicopter with a new flybar, main gear and main blades, so that should be all good.

As for the #1, you all said that it was one of the newer HK401b gyros that was causing the tail wag. However I remember Rob being able to hover it with no tail wag with the DX7. Quite perplexing!


Yes,I completed the 450 Heli with the Scorpion motor and 60 Amp ESC.. I will upload the vids and link here shortly.. Its a beast but not quite as much as I expected... It ended up being a 450 Pro TT because I just love the TT...

First vid is just testing the new heli.. it had a few bugs.. which are now sorted as per the 2nd vid..(give it a bit to upload)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEcpD1i7Jx0[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fq8Rx2_WwJY[/youtube]

As for the tail wag and it not happening on my DX7.. didn't you see my left thumb wiggling rapidly the whole time correcting the wag??? (just kidding)
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Old 09-16-2012, 10:42 PM
  #291
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Default RE: HK-450GT CCPM Alloy T-Rex compatible - Part III


Quote:
ORIGINAL: ahamay
Quote:
ORIGINAL: Rob2160
Yes I find if I fly as fast as I possibly can (with the help of a dive) it becomes very twitchy and will pitch up dramatically with the tiniest input.. I had to dig deep into my memory banks to figure it out.. but I'd say a combination of retreating blade stall and flap back happening..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categor...r_aerodynamics
Interesting reading thanks for that..... now...if we could only send that link to the Taroy zyx firmware programmers and get them to read it and then get them to take out whatever code they decided would be a good idea to address this problem.....coz it's not working !!!
Jonesy
There's an interesting quote on that page (last sentence) about retreating blade stalls:


"This is normally an automatically corrected condition if one just 'lets go' of the controls."


Might see if Simon is upto testing that theory out with his rebuilt 450


Jonesy


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Old 09-16-2012, 11:17 PM
  #292
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Default RE: HK-450GT CCPM Alloy T-Rex compatible - Part III


Quote:
ORIGINAL: ahamay


Quote:
ORIGINAL: ahamay
Quote:
ORIGINAL: Rob2160
Yes I find if I fly as fast as I possibly can (with the help of a dive) it becomes very twitchy and will pitch up dramatically with the tiniest input.. I had to dig deep into my memory banks to figure it out.. but I'd say a combination of retreating blade stall and flap back happening..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categor...r_aerodynamics
Interesting reading thanks for that..... now...if we could only send that link to the Taroy zyx firmware programmers and get them to read it and then get them to take out whatever code they decided would be a good idea to address this problem.....coz it's not working !!!
Jonesy
There's an interesting quote on that page (last sentence) about retreating blade stalls:


"This is normally an automatically corrected condition if one just 'lets go' of the controls."


Might see if Simon is upto testing that theory out with his rebuilt 450


Jonesy


This is basically true in virtually all aerobatic manouvers in fixed wing aircraft also...
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Old 09-16-2012, 11:55 PM
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Default RE: HK-450GT CCPM Alloy T-Rex compatible - Part III

Hi guys, its been interesting conversation here thats for sure. Welcome back Rob, glad you could drag yourself away from your other hobby.

Nice heli as well, even though its got a few extra bits on it.

Glad to see you had a good time Edmund. Some video would be great.

Thunderstorms rolling in here now so no flying for the next few days.

Think I might stay away from RCG for a while after starting a slanging match over something as simple as a cable tie.

Those guys honestly need to get a life.
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Old 09-17-2012, 01:01 AM
  #294
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Default RE: HK-450GT CCPM Alloy T-Rex compatible - Part III

Cable tie? No, I thought it was a Zip-tie. NO IT WAS A CABLE TIE!! Oh well,  doesn't matter, they both do the same thing... Is that how it goes on RCG? Haha, I hope not!!

Tonight I may get started on some of the wiring for the quad copter, especially for a way to neatly get 4 Turnigy Plush ESCs to a common plug. I am thinking to use big 6.0MM bullet connectors to an XT60 Battery lead, then 6.0MM bullet connectors to the ESC leads. The big connectors are so I can fit all 4 wires, solder it up and shrink the whole thing down! I have got 4.5 meters of de soldering braid which I have been wanting for a long time, I think it will last me for a long time!

I have always wondered what it would be like to be a pilot and pull High G's. Glad you had fun Edmund.
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Old 09-17-2012, 01:27 AM
  #295
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Default RE: HK-450GT CCPM Alloy T-Rex compatible - Part III


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Kozzy_98

Cable tie? No, I thought it was a Zip-tie. NO IT WAS A CABLE TIE!! Oh well, doesn't matter, they both do the same thing... Is that how it goes on RCG? Haha, I hope not!!
That's FUNNY-I was wondering if it really was a TIE WRAP!!

I'm a little disappointed tbh. I was getting some good technical input and now the thread has gone off on one.

S

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Old 09-17-2012, 01:31 AM
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Default RE: HK-450GT CCPM Alloy T-Rex compatible - Part III


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Rob2160


Quote:
ORIGINAL: ahamay


Quote:
ORIGINAL: ahamay
Quote:
ORIGINAL: Rob2160
Yes I find if I fly as fast as I possibly can (with the help of a dive) it becomes very twitchy and will pitch up dramatically with the tiniest input.. I had to dig deep into my memory banks to figure it out.. but I'd say a combination of retreating blade stall and flap back happening..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categor...r_aerodynamics
Interesting reading thanks for that..... now...if we could only send that link to the Taroy zyx firmware programmers and get them to read it and then get them to take out whatever code they decided would be a good idea to address this problem.....coz it's not working !!!
Jonesy
There's an interesting quote on that page (last sentence) about retreating blade stalls:


"This is normally an automatically corrected condition if one just 'lets go' of the controls."


Might see if Simon is upto testing that theory out with his rebuilt 450


Jonesy
This is basically true in virtually all aerobatic manouvers in fixed wing aircraft also...
Hi Rob,

You remind me of your 100 kph HK-450GT

As for letting go of the controls. That would be interesting. I suspect it will be FFF into the tic of a tic-toc. I'll give it a go after a brave pill

Simon

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Old 09-17-2012, 01:57 AM
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Default RE: HK-450GT CCPM Alloy T-Rex compatible - Part III


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Rob2160

Yes I find if I fly as fast as I possibly can (with the help of a dive) it becomes very twitchy and will pitch up dramatically with the tiniest input.. I had to dig deep into my memory banks to figure it out.. but I'd say a combination of retreating blade stall and flap back happening..


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categor...r_aerodynamics
Really interesting thanks Rob!

The great puzzle for me is that my 450 model on exibits the FFF nose-up phenomenon with fw zyx v3.5. Flash back to earlier versions & try as I might it won't happen. The frustrating part is that there are improvements to the firmware that are otherwise worth having!

Anyway, on rebuilding that heli I installed better radial bearings in the grips and stiffer dampers. Is there any hope that that will make a difference?

S

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Old 09-17-2012, 02:10 AM
  #298
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Default RE: HK-450GT CCPM Alloy T-Rex compatible - Part III


Quote:
ORIGINAL: sgbfly


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Kozzy_98

Cable tie? No, I thought it was a Zip-tie. NO IT WAS A CABLE TIE!! Oh well, doesn't matter, they both do the same thing... Is that how it goes on RCG? Haha, I hope not!!
That's FUNNY-I was wondering if it really was a TIE WRAP!!

I'm a little disappointed tbh. I was getting some good technical input and now the thread has gone off on one.

S

Sorry about that Simon but I didnt realise such a small comment would start the mess its turned into.
All I was doing was pointing out that it wasnt velcro but a zip tie and the guy went nuts.

Hopefully it will settle down and get back on topic.

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Old 09-17-2012, 02:17 AM
  #299
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Default RE: HK-450GT CCPM Alloy T-Rex compatible - Part III


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Anyway, on rebuilding that heli I installed better radial bearings in the grips and stiffer dampers. Is there any hope that that will make a difference?

S

You can always hope.

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Old 09-17-2012, 02:31 AM
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Default RE: HK-450GT CCPM Alloy T-Rex compatible - Part III


Quote:
ORIGINAL: sgbfly

Really interesting thanks Rob!

The great puzzle for me is that my 450 model on exibits the FFF nose-up phenomenon with fw zyx v3.5. Flash back to earlier versions & try as I might it won't happen. The frustrating part is that there are improvements to the firmware that are otherwise worth having!

Anyway, on rebuilding that heli I installed better radial bearings in the grips and stiffer dampers. Is there any hope that that will make a difference?

S

I guess it can't hurt... stiffer dampers will definately improve response.. I understand the frustration of having firmware that is overall better but introduces a new bug.... I had a GPS unit like that.. with the old firmware it was super fast and responsive, with new firmware it changed the whole display for the better and added great features but was 500% slower and less responsive.... Tom Tom eventually got it all sorted and I guess they will do the same with ZYX... maybe firmware 4???
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