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Saito 180 w/ APC Prop

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Old 08-26-2003, 06:58 PM
  #1
john316
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Default Saito 180 w/ APC Prop

Saito 180 Fuel - Omega 15% castor/synthetic blend
Plug - OS 'F' type
Air Temperature - 95 deg F
Humidity - High
Altitude ~650 MSL (San Antonio, TX)
APC 16x8 - 9000 rpm leaned to maximum
APC 17x6 - 9200 rpm leaned to maximum


JMW
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Old 08-26-2003, 07:05 PM
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Default Saito 180 w/ APC Prop

Correction to last post, those rpm readings were leaned for flight, not leaned for maximum rpm. Maximum rpm as follows:

APC 16x8 - 9200 maximum
APC 17x6 - 9400 maximum

JMW
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Old 08-29-2003, 12:37 PM
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Default Saito 180 w/ APC Prop

hey john..thanks for the info..looks like now i have a good place to start when i get my 180 installed on my edge!

thanks man!
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Old 08-29-2003, 03:51 PM
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Default Saito 180 w/ APC Prop

Your welcome Birdie, I know how expensive it can get to go through a lot of different props at $25+ apiece. My G-202 came in at 11 1/2 lbs and I like the 17x6 APC the best overall for aerobatics. The 16x8 APC gave me more horizontal speed but less acceleration when having to pull straight up into the vertical out of a low speed turn (like at the bottom of a square loop).

jmw
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Old 08-29-2003, 07:17 PM
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Default Saito 180 w/ APC Prop

i am assembling a Lanier Edge 540 1.20 size plane now, and as best as i can tell, it is gonna be near 11lbs...i am thinking of using pushrods to the elevators or maybe a pull-pull to the elevators (if i can figure out how) to keep from having to add weight to balance out...everyone is telling me how tail heavy these planes like mine are, and to try not to have to put duel elevator servos in...

anyways...thanks again for the very useful info!

birdie
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Old 09-02-2003, 04:03 PM
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Default Saito 180 w/ APC Prop

I think you will be pleased with the 180 on your Edge, at 11 pounds it should scoot!

jmw
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Old 09-02-2003, 07:11 PM
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Default Saito 180 w/ APC Prop

hey man, what spinner are you using to have that 17X6 on your Saito? i just talked to tru-turn, and to use a 17X6 on the saito for a 3" ultimate style spinner is gonna cost me $74 plus shipping plus the adapter...

Oh My Freakin' GOD...!!!!??

uh...i may have no choice but to opt for the 16X8 and save myself $40!
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Old 09-03-2003, 01:21 PM
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Default Saito 180 w/ APC Prop

You got off cheap at $74 birdie, I spent about $125 for the 4 inch Ultimate with the Moki short shaft adapter. But it sure looks good!

jmw
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Old 09-05-2003, 01:36 PM
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Default Saito 180 w/ APC Prop

wow....$125 huh? dang..i am sorry man..that sucks!

i think i found a way around my predicament...the YS motors are also 8mm and a "normal" 3" spinner for them is a mere $34 or so..plus i got the adapter from tru-turn, so if it works out, i save big money and will still be able to use the apc 17x6 prop...

i will find out monday when the stuff gets here from Central Hobbies..man..that Vaugh is a great guy! i am gonna give them all the business i can!

see ya round john, and thanks again!

birdie
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Old 09-24-2003, 04:50 PM
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Default RE: Saito 180 w/ APC Prop

John, I am new to 4 stroke engines, and was wondering why you are only getting 9,400 RPM when the manual says the range is up to 11,000?

Thanks,
Richard
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Old 09-25-2003, 04:20 AM
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Default RE: Saito 180 w/ APC Prop

John weber, the numbers that you are getting seam a bit low, I can get my Saito 180 with a APC 16x8 with 20% nitro to around 9500 rpm and still fairly reach if a lean it I can get around 9800 rpm with that prop. Either your engine is still new or you have something wrong you are easily short of 500 rpm that makes a big difference.
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Old 09-25-2003, 09:18 AM
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Default RE: Saito 180 w/ APC Prop

rcs36, on any engine,maximum static rpm is dependent on propeller load. For aerobatics, I select a propeller that will allow the engine to run at or near its torque peak. Just because the engine has a mechanical rpm limit of 11,000 does not mean that there is any compelling reason to run it that fast. To turn that kind of rpm I would have to use a smaller diameter prop or one with less pitch and the aircraft would not perform well. Remenber, a big advantage of a fourstroke is ability to turn large, efficient propellers effectively. TD1, those are the numbers I am getting for my 180 on 15% fuel, engine has about 10 hours of continuous operation on it so it should be fully broken in. I have had had two Saitos, a 91 and the 180 and neither one has performed as well as the claims I have heard here on RCU.

jmw
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Old 09-25-2003, 01:33 PM
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Default RE: Saito 180 w/ APC Prop

A lot of the Saito 180 numbers touted here are with 30% heli fuel. Personally, if an airplane glow engine needs 30% nitro to perform, I don't need it.

The Saito 180 has a lower CR than the 150 and 120, so it can tolerate higher nitro without kicking back. It doesn't mean you should use a bunch of nitro, though. Those numbers you've listed sound reasonable, as they are quite a bit higher than what I got for my Saito 1.20.
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Old 09-25-2003, 04:16 PM
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Default RE: Saito 180 w/ APC Prop

John Weber.
I am not an expert on four stroke engines, but I thought that the ideal way to run in a new engines was to run it very reach the first gallon of fuel and run the engine with short 4 to 5 minutes runs and let it cool down and them do this procedure all over again. Your statement !QUOT!engine has about 10 hours of continuous operation on it so it should be fully broken in!QUOT! got me a bit confused can you explain a bit more.




Volfy-RCU.
I have only run 20% nitro and you see a noticeable difference from 15%, to be honest I could use a lower nitro content because my plane is overpowered, but the problem is that once you get used to the power of the engine is quite difficult to give up a few hundred rpm
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Old 09-25-2003, 08:47 PM
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Default RE: Saito 180 w/ APC Prop

WIldcat 15% nitro 13% synthetic 3% castor, peak rpm results

APC 17x6 @ 9700
MA Scimitar 17x8 @ 8900
APC 18x6W @ 8700
Pro Zinger 18x6 @ 8600

This is pretty respectable for 15%, yielding power about halfway between Saito 150 and OS 160. I estimate w/ the 18x6W, static thrust should be about 16 lb.
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Old 09-26-2003, 01:21 AM
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Default RE: Saito 180 w/ APC Prop

Quote:
ORIGINAL: TD1
Volfy-RCU.
I have only run 20% nitro and you see a noticeable difference from 15%, to be honest I could use a lower nitro content because my plane is overpowered, but the problem is that once you get used to the power of the engine is quite difficult to give up a few hundred rpm
I can certainly appreciate that. Power is definitely addicting. One of the biggest complaints I hear about the Saito 180 is that it's a gas guzzler, compare to the 150 or even the OS 1.60 2stroke. Well, when you feed it 30% power juice, it'll make all kinds of power allright - at a price. Higher nitro means higher fuel consumption, there's no two ways about it. I really think it give the 180 an unfair reputation.

Then again, Saito did make it to run great with 30%, so more power to those who like to run them that way - literally.
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Old 09-26-2003, 09:02 AM
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Default RE: Saito 180 w/ APC Prop

TD1, I have a total of 10 hours of operation on my 180, not 10 hours of breakin. During break in, I ran about a gallon and a half through the engine while operating with a very rich setting. I then started flying the airplane with a rich needle setting. My point is that after 10 hours of operation the engine is fully broken in and the numbers I am getting are not going to improve any further. I am now peaking at about 9450 rpm on 15% nitro fuel. On 20% fuel I estimate the engine will turn about 9600, this is inline with what others are getting. I have no interest in 30% nitro fuel because of the expense, thsi engine sucks fuel at an unbelievable rate, my Moki 2.1 has much lower appetite for fuel. In my humble opinion the Moki makes a lot more sense for the type of aircraft I fly.

jmw[:@]
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Old 09-26-2003, 10:27 AM
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Default RE: Saito 180 w/ APC Prop

sorry for my misinterpretation of your statement.
What prop are you running to get 9450 rpm? is it the 16x8 APC? What aircraft do you have the Saito in?
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Old 10-01-2003, 12:21 PM
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Default RE: Saito 180 w/ APC Prop

The airframe is a Giles 202 1/4 scale from Great Planes, the propeller is a 17x6 APC. Actually rpm has increased to almost 9700 so apparently this engine is still not fully broken in yet, surprising since I have now accumulated about 55 flights on it.

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Old 10-01-2003, 12:43 PM
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Default RE: Saito 180 w/ APC Prop

Hey I am thinking of trying an 18x6 Mejzlik, anyone got any number with that combo so I know if it's worth it?
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Old 10-02-2003, 02:58 AM
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Default RE: Saito 180 w/ APC Prop

[quote]Either your engine is still new or you have something wrong you are easily short of 500 rpm that makes a big difference.
[quote]


John Weber, I am happy you have managed to get the 500 rpm you were initially short of. Don't you find that it makes a very noticeable difference during flying?.
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Old 10-03-2003, 07:13 PM
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Default RE: Saito 180 w/ APC Prop

I run a Mejzlick 18x6 on my 180 in a H9 Edge. With 15% Cool Power it turns a solid 9000. I believe this to be the magic prop for the 180.
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Old 10-07-2003, 01:52 PM
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Default RE: Saito 180 w/ APC Prop

Thanks bucket, thats what I needed to know.
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Old 10-10-2003, 08:31 PM
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Default RE: Saito 180 w/ APC Prop

Quote:
john316
Is that John 3:16?
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Old 10-13-2003, 02:28 PM
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Default RE: Saito 180 w/ APC Prop

John 3:16, that's an affirmative.[:@]
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