Barber420

My Feedback: (1)

Ok, sounds like you do have a good knowledge base in RC. I only commented because your original post didn't really show that you knew anything, and MANY people who don't know jack and have no experience with vehicles tend to comment as if they know what they're talking about. This obviously isn't the case with you, but it's very frustrating when people do this. I wasn't offended by your post per se, but I wasn't going to hesitate calling you out if you had been one of these idiots I'm reffering to. I was pleasantly surprised to see your reply, and that you're not an idiot. All of your comments in the second post were valid ones.

I also remember back in the day, when their was no internet, and how different getting information was. You had your Car Action articles, Tower catalogs, and that was about it. I didn't have a hobby shop close by, so I went by magazine articles back then and who was winning races. You're right, the internet is a god send for information about kits, cars, mods, engines, electrics, etc... Unfortunately, with the good comes the bad and you tend to have quite a few fools posting irrelevant or wrong information quite frequently.

I love both the XXL/LST and 8.0, but I only own an 8.0. It costs a lot to own both trucks and I don't see the need to own them both right now. The MGT can be made to handle as well, maybe better, than a XXL, but mods do need to be done to it. I also run LST wheels and tires on my MGT if I'm on a track and that alone makes a HUGE difference. The stock MGT tires are great for bashing though. From what I've seen and heard the MGT in general, and it's plastic, is a tougher truck than the Losi, but not by much. My MGT is significantly modded now too. I've got progressive rate springs, red springs, thicker shock oil, LST tires and wheels, NOVA head, RPM a-arms, titanium turnbuckles, dual fuel tanks, and an upgraded servo on it. It's a beast now and handles AMAZING. Their is no comparison to how it drives now, and when it was first pulled from the box. The MGT radio gear is good, but Losi went all out on the XXL. You get the telemetry, it's 2.4, etc... Definitely the better electronics of the two.

ntrain42

Ill randomly hit on a few points:

Yeah, in reality its pretty easy to weed out the "dumb/idiot" replies and the folks who can create a properly constructed sentence with good fundamental points when comparing products.

I too alsoused to read alot of magazines back then, the problem with the reviews thoughwith the major subscriptions is thatthe reviews are a paid form of advertisement(alot of people don't know this)many times.

I remember an old issue of RCCar Action I think had a review on the Tamiya Avante, it got glorious reviews(Tamiya had many full pageads taken out in the mag)but in reality it was built like complete *****,using real low qualityplastic at critical parts, and had major design flaws with the limited suspension travel and geometry of the front end. And it was $BUCKS$ too!

Also, my comparisons are based on STOCK vehicles. I know all these vehicles can be modded extensively and all be made into pretty solid machines. Im basing my information on stock vehicle starting points.

If I grab an XXL I know Im going to replace the A-arms, turnbuckles and hubs right off the bat, and swap out the servos(I have ALWAYS believed in using the best servos, and have no issues spending $75-100 for one)as well. Hopefully thats all Im gonna need to do.

The radio it comes with is what Im looking for since it will have multiple memory slots to run multiple vehicles with just one transmitter. SInce Im going to have in total 5 vehicles(2 boats, 1 monstertruck, 1 1/8th scale racebuggy, and one 1/5th scale gasser)this makes sense for me. 1 setting each for me, and a "detuned" setting for my boy. Plus the newer revisedDX3S is DSM and DSM2 ready. As for the telemetry, IMO its useless. I would have been happier if the XXL came with the DX3R which has more memory settings and a few more servo control options I believe, but Ill probably get that down the road and have 2 transmitters on hand, one for me, one for my boy.

ntrain42

Well, I have in front of me a used LST thats been converted to XXL specs in front of me right now. Its a loaner from a LHS's shop owner's son. I gotta say a few things.

The Losi is technically not a flat pan chassis truck. Its actually a horizontal ladder rail design. Even though this is the older LST, its simplistic design is impressive. Front/rear diffs are identical. All the A-arms and cvd's are identical, as are the shocks. Keeps things pretty darn simple. This beater has the older "427" (gotta love how Losi names their engines after old Chevy big blocks from the past).26 engine in it, with the older FM transmitter. Anyway the owner spent less than $100 upgrading the chassis(parted out XXL rolleron Ebay)arms(RPM),diff housings(Losi),steering crank(No clue its anodized blue)and a custom made roll cage. Even with a kicked to cr@p worn out engine with over 4 gallons of nitro fuel, its a darn fast truck. The stock shocksare HUGE, and the kid hasn't found any reason to upgrade to the alloy bodies. I kind of agree with him too,handling is great, and it seems near bullit proof with very few mods and money invested. I dont like the transmitter(glitching here and there), but I know the new XXL comes with a Spektrum now. I have to bring this truck back around noon today, but then Im going to be loaned an MGT 8.0 for a few tanks of gas to run at the LHS's track out back.

Anyway, the XXL is sure a BIG upgrade over the original TMaxx I had a few years back...................looking forward to playing withthe 8.0 when I bring theconverted LST back.

ausrcnut

Sweet as. Should be good. I'd say that handling and weight, the Losi would be nice. It'll be interesting to see what becomes of the MGT test run.

ntrain42

Yeah, Im looking forward to it, but Im REALLY digging this "XXL" as beat on as it is. I really want to tinker with the servo trim settings and tinker with the camber and shocks,because as well as it handles, it just seems like thereis morepotential still,but its not my vehicle, the older transmitter sucks. One thing I love, is the steering on this is very crisp and responsive. As worn as it is it turns like it is on rails.

ausrcnut

Hey mate. How'd it all go for ya.....? i think you were upto takin the MGT8.0 out for a spin...? I was lookin too, and Heng Long have made a LOSI copy, they call it Land Overlord. It is identical ashellhey. They even state that its a direct copy, and at $560 Aussie smackers, I dont think ya can go wrong hey. The XXL here is like $899 AU. Ya may as well just buy a Gas truck for that price. But the only thing I dont like about gas is the size, cause the bigger the vehicle, the bigger the stomping ground needs to be, and if your limited....well..there goes ya mad fun now hey.

ntrain42

Hehe, forgot to post back sorry. Yep took the MGT 8 out when I brought the other one back. I think a few people's perception of the XXL being a "refined" product of the MGT, I really have to agree. The 8.0 was a blast for me as well, but in stock form it definetly was a step behind in the overall package in many different ways. I definetly like the design and build quality of the XXL better without doubt. The simplest way to describe it, is you felt you got more for your money spending $650 on the XXL kit than you did spending $450 roughly on the 8.0. Even taking in and including$200 worth of aftermarket parts for the MGT to give the purchase an even footing of cash outlay I would stillwithout hesitation take the Losi product.

ausrcnut

Hey mate,

When you took the MGT8.0 for a spin and the LOSI for a spin, as far as a complete bash truck with loads of smash and no intension of racing, which truck would you go for...?

ntrain42

Well here is an honest opinion in my book which I try and take from a neutral perspective. BOTH trucks are miles ahead of and better than my original Tmaxx which I was scared of crashing and breaking parts on from the first time I took it out. The Tmaxx's engine was able to proper the vehicle to speeds the stock chassis material just could not take in a typical crash. Both the MGT and XL closed that gap. I wasn't quite as afraid to crash either of them. I put the Losi ahead here, but the Losi XL truck I messed around with was really a converted LST to XL specs. It had the 427 engine in it,older transmitter/reciever,upgraded arms, carriers and a few other small odds, n ends, and those mods alone definetly make for a skewed comparison in one sense. The steering response and suspension definetly go to the XL. The dual servo setup with a nice aftermarket alloy steering crank assembly and the steering is pretty much bullitproof being sandwiched between chassis/skid alloy skid plates and by design it actually beefs up the overallfront end assemblynaturally as well. The MGT also does this in a similiar fashion, but in an assymetrical way from the horizontal play that gives it IMO a bit too much flexing, specifically if certain bolts come loose a bit(Locktite the entire front end on both)and it uses a single servo instead of 2. The dual symetrical brace and servo assembly braces better and Im sure anyone here reading this knows the advantages there. The LST XL I ran had mild upgraded servos(Stock out of another vehicle, total tq between 2 was almost 220oz /.14 @ 6volts combined)with a $20 alloy steering crank in place of the stock one. So there was a few modest upgrades done to the front end, and when driving it, it felt very on the spot responsive, the truck turned on a dime and was significantly better than the MGT. The MGT did't feel bad, but a servo upgrade would do it wonders(Considering the price difference between a new MGT and XL you could put the money saved here towards a good one and upgraded steering crank assembly for the MGT)I have no doubt. Getting familiar with 1/8th scale I can say without a doubt you need at LEAST 200oz of torque and a solid .15 or less response time for a good "connected" feel between transmitter and reciever) I would say the stock servos while better than the MGT's could use an upgrade as well here. Suspension arm,bulkhead,turnbuckles,shocks,design, go to the XL. Its just beefier in the right places. Big bore shocks especially. I dunno if they make a single shock/big boreconversion for the MGT, but this is the other area I would invest the money saved in from initial cost purchase between the 2 if you go the MGT route. If you have money left over, I would definetly do the arms as well. I wouldn't go alloy though. High quality composite arms are what I would suggest. This area on both trucks needs to flex alot IMO, I see aluminum as bending in certain situations, here, especially with the extra big rubber and wide track of the bothvehicles. Again remember I had aftermarket composite arms and turnbuckles I believe on the Losi, stock shocks though. Still regardless its going to help the bias towards the XL. No idea how durable the stock ones are. But going over bumps, jumping,turning, even going over big obstacles, the XL had a natural advantage with its track,wheelbase,and suspension arm assembly design overall in feel for me. WHat happens to help on the track, seems to help alot for rough terrain as well for the XL, not talking a huge difference here, but enough so where it still is a difference. Jumping and launching the XL definetly has a more controlled feel to it.

So before I go further I have to say, if money is no object here between the 2 and you plan on upgrading parts regardless of which you buy, then I say the XL without question based on the chassis/suspension/steering design alone. Its a better platform for bashing or racing IMO. On e note here: For bashing..........BOTH need to have a rollcage, without question. Spend money here and protect ur investment. A rollcage is the singlemost importantupgrade you can make for any bashing vehicle and itshould be DONE. IMO it should be included STOCK with ANY kit this scale or larger. The rollcage alone will overtime save youSIGNIFICANTLYMOREMONEYOVERTIME as the initial cost of it by itself.

But if money is an object, then Im not so sure. There is about a $200 difference new(not sure used). Since I really havent looked to see whats available for the MGT or the costs associated with it. Is it possible you could upgrade the steering and suspension parts I discussed up above for the $200 difference in price between the 2 products? I mean...........if you can, nothing wrong with going the MGT way if certain areas can be brought up to snuff. If not leave the stock servo, upgrade steering crank assembly, do a roll cage and compositeA arms, put lighter shock oil in, if you have money left over go to the drivetrain.

Engine for bashing..........I really like the LRP in the Losi. Its got a wide pulling powerband. BUtboth can be pretty much equal in this regard with correct gearing and clutch adjustments to suit the engine used.The Bigger Thunder Tiger engine pulls a bit harder down low it feels, but has an overall narrower powerband, it needs to come off the clutch sooner, adjustment is needed here, it would help its useable powerband significantly. Both vehicles IMO need to make gearing/transmission adjustments for all out bashing. Out of the box feel for either isn't great IMO, both sluggish, even with a good tuned engine. Braking favors the MGT, no question. Is there a brake disc upgrade for the XL? Braking favors the MGT for linear feel without question. As for durability for either assembly, cannot really say on that, I dont know the inherant weaknesses or have enough time with either to make an assesment like that.

Radio for bashing: Again really cant say here. I had an older transmitter for the Losi and not the current DX3S. vs. the stock FM radio. Didnt really mess with either. BOth felt cheap though regardless. Is the DX3S in the same category for feel? No clue yet.........regardless, both did the job adequately for response feel for just d!ckin around for the few hours I had to play with em.

Another thing I like, all the shocks are the same, all the A arms, front rear diffs etc, makes for keepingstock parts easy and lessexpensive overall.Bonus here for the XL. I really didnt have the time to tinker with the MGT up close, so not sure if thespare part content needed to keep on handis goingto be higher overall. The Losi design though is very simple,straight forward and well thought out. The MGT looks to be a step behind here, but I really didnt inspect it closely, just ran it.

In conclusion if money isnt a big concern, the XL is the way to go regardless for bashing or racing from my own experience and the way I control the vehicle. But if money IS a concern, then the MGT with some upgrades has plenty of potential itself no question, I liked it as well, fun to drive. The question is, how much will it cost for the specific upgrades to get it more in the league of the XL?Do they make the upgradesin question? I assume so being Team A. but correct me if Im wrong. So,canall the upgradesbe done for the $220 difference in price new? If so, I sure wouldn't blame anyone wanting to go with an MGT. Honestly I wouldn't blame anyone evenstock. Like I originally said,both are big upgrades over my old Tmaxx from years ago.

ntrain42

So you can see, alot of my thoughts and recommendations are based on the bottom line dollarwise. WHat are you getting per dollar spent?

With that in mind, another avenue I could go is with a truggy kit. Tower Hobbies has a $60 off coupon for orders over $300. Plus I get free shipping off on top. So I could get a good truggy kit for around $450-500. And I also could get an Airtronics M11x or Futaba 3PKfor about $300 as well also. I would just need servos and an engine on top. So Id spend about $4-600 more initiallythan I would for an XL Losi kit. Question is, am I getting a per deal per dollar spent for the extra money invested for what I would be doing with it?

geepfreek

the Only thing wrong with the MGT 8.0 is the engine. Replace that and put rpm a-arms and your set.

ntrain42

Personally I think the engine is fine. It doesn't rev as high and has a narrower powerband than the LRP .28 in the Losi, but getting a stronger clutch spring or swapping out to a clutch that grabs quicker along with a gear change would take better advantage of the power in its natural range.


Im actually still considering an MGT 8.0 .I can get one for $400 shipped from Tower right now. Almost $300 cheaper than the Losi. With the money saved I could pick up an Airtronics M11X transmitter.

Anyone know how much I could get for the includedAssociated FM transmitter and reciever if I wanted it to sell QUICK?

ausrcnut

Yea. Sounds as though its a hard choice. But Itotally do see the qualitywith the Losi.With me though, Im all about experimentation, modding...and "cannibalisation"of vehicles.fun fun fun.
I currently have a MGT8.0 engine that is in the hands of PowerHouseRcPerformance as we speak, and they are conducting the Full TurboPerformance Package-increasing the powerband, as well as aspiration, response,timing and the fuel efficiency. So Im gathering I'll get the full potential out of the 8.0 engine, and many many smiles to boot.
So this is why Im leaning towards the MGT. Other than that, I would have installed a .32LRP in the XXL. But seeing as I already have this engine, this is theonly reason Iam considering theMGT.A-rms and Redsprings and a thicker shock oilwould be next on the list. I'd also like to extend the travel in the suspension a little,maybeHPI's shocks modified might do the trick.Does anyone know if Associated is bringing out a new MGT or supertruck anytime soon....?

ausrcnut

For ease of funding, the Tower 224 spectrum seems ok. The there's the Futaba3pmor 2ph.I like the Futaba faast 4pk. But, the $ is the issue there if you dont want it to be. My currnet vehicle is nothing much-Redcat MT. I have a highly modified .28 in it that I did myself. As a standard vehicle they are awesome at handling and racing, but are not a basher. Super fast and light, at only 3.5kgs and with a 3.5hp engine...that's a1:1 power to weight ratio.So you could gather how it would go.And at $260AU its good value for moneyto stuff around with or as a first truck.

ausrcnut

Well....I Just placed an order with Tower. Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan.... I so hate exchange rates hey. LOL. You guys have it so damn good over there with the USD and that Tower is US as well. For the MGT8.0 delivered it cost me $600AU.....!!!!!!! Ouch....!!!!!! The LOSI is....wait forit..........................$966AU delivered....!!!!!!! (Shivers). LOL. Here's to living a fun filled life...!!!! ;-D I'll just have the Redcat as a spare truck for outertown friendsto join in on a bash and also as my prototype truck to tinker with.

ntrain42

Is $600AU a good price? I know an 8.0 for $400 shipped new is a good deal here.

cummins driver

My Feedback: (31)

I guess im just not a Losi fan, and so I like the MGT better than the Losi. The losi looks like a nice truck, and it has lots of nice features, but they seem to have some quality issues to me just from things I have read. Now, I have never owned a Losi anything. Im not really brand loyal either. I have owned XTM, Sportwerks, Duratrax, and something from almost all of the major manufacturers, but Losi has just always been one of those company's i didnt like I guess.

To me, the MGT is about the best truck out there if you want a truck that handles decent, will take a beating, is easy to get parts for, and is easy to work on. I have owned 2 MGT's. One was a nitro .21 model that I installed a 4.6 AE engine on. It ran great and never caused me any problems. Lots of power. Even the old .21 engine was strong enough to have fun with. The one I have now, I converted to brushless by installing an HPI E-Savage transmission and making my own driveshafts, and I love it. Its just a blast to go out and climb hills with, and its also fast, even on NiMh. If I ever upgrade batteries, it will be a rocket. The driveline is built good on these trucks, and the differentials will take a beating. They are as good as any MT differentials. The only thing Im not a huge fan of on a stock MGT is the transmission. But, installing a forward only conversion kit is supposed to make a lot of difference, and I think I would have been much happier with the tranny in mine if I had done that.

Before I got my first MGT, I had owned a T-Maxx, and I still own a Savage. The T-Maxx wouldnt take half the beating that the Savage or MGT will. I also really like my Savage. If you are out for sheer bashing, the Savage is THE truck to have IMO. With the bulletproof differentials, the driveline is near indestructible, and the chassis, and factory A-Arms are great too. The plastic is thick and very high quality, so there really arent any problems with the stock stuff. I never saw a need to replace my Arms. My Savage arms have about 8 gallons on them now without the first problem. The only real downfalls to the savage in my opinion, is that it is hard to work on, and it doesent handle good. However, if you are a basher, that isnt a huge concern, and the rest of the truck is just awesome. And thats why I say the MGT is pretty darn good if you want a mix of something being tough, and handling well.

Anyways, all the big name MT's are pretty good. Just depends on which one you like the best and which one you want to work on, because they will all need it at some point

Eric

ausrcnut

Is $600AU a good price? I know an 8.0 for $400 shipped new is a good deal here......??

I guess it is ok. But when you see it in front of your eyes for $479, andagain evenwith a Tower promotion for $379.... it becomes painful. The Revo here sells for $869AU. and the SavageXL retails here for $899AU. When the Savage XL first came here it was about $1200AU. The Savage 4.6 still retails here for $700AU. So, I guess $600AU is a good deal comparatively. But again, when it is there in from of your eyes at 479 even....wow. I've always wanted a SavageXL, but I had the 4.6 previousand decided to try comething different. I will get an XL later on with a .32LRP in it, or even if I could fita 'worked'associated 8.0 engine it it, would be interesting to see how it would go.

I have alot of conviction in the 8.0 engine. I have seen the internals and it is hell strongbutliterally stock as a rock basic. There's SO much that can be done to improve its performance, that once are done, will be a totally different engine. The porting work alone will have a huge effect. Some basic porting and increasing the inlet valve port timing will give some more rpms, and is easy as hell to perform yourself. But yea, everyone knocks the 8.0 engine, but I have other plans for it.... muahahahahaaaa.....!!!!!!! >:-D

I also have a brand new savageXL 3speed tranny, to which i'll measure upto the MGT and if it will be somewhat compatible (with mods of course) I'll retro fit to see how it holds up. Yea, I'll lose reverse, but at least I know the tranny will be totally reliable, upto the performance motor.

Does anyone know which gear(s) always give way in the MGT Tranny....? I believe if they were hardened steel like the XL, it would be fine. Apparently there were onewaybearing issues maybe. Cant remember fully.....?

Barber420

My Feedback: (1)

Only issue I've ever personally seen that damages an 8.0 tranny is shifting from forward to reverse, or vice versa, before the truck has completly stopped. That can knock teeth off the gears, and then you're done. Otherwise, I've NEVER seen an 8.0 tranny fail. I think the only problems were with older trannies, and idiots shifting reverse to forward at the wrong time.

ausrcnut

Sweet as, sounds more positive already.

So you say 'older trannies' how would you know if it were an older tranny or not.....ie, If you buy a MGT, will it state a certain serial number for the tranny or other identification available to verify and older design from current....? And even so, if onewere tobuy a MGT, but how do they know it wasnt one that has been sitting on the shelf for the past however many years... and to their lackof knowledge...it was an older one...? Im hoping the one I just bought wasnt an older one....LOL :-S

cummins driver

My Feedback: (31)

ausrcnut- I dont think you have anything to worry about. Im pretty sure he is talking about the .21 and 4.6 transmissions because they have weaker internals. I believe all 8.0 transmissions are original, and since you bought an 8.0 that hasnt been converted or anything(its new),you will have the best tranny for the MGT. Good luck with your new ride, i think you'll love it!

Eric

ausrcnut

...haha..yea I was bein abit funny. But yea....was curious as to if there were variations of the MGT 8.0. So far, I havent seen one sold in Australia yet. But then again, I havent visited every HS.You always seem to see Savage's, Losi's, Traxxas and other non popular makes. But not much associated, even though its a huge company.Maybe cause it's not cheap, who know's.

I think you had a vid of your XL with a LRP in it....goes hard as...if im right....????!!! If its the oneIm thinking of... its impressive. Its good to see that the MGT8.0 Trannies are good. I appreciate all the feed back as well....has been a great help. I dont think I will regret the Associated product, but I do know that the XL has a special place in my heart. Its a giantF-truck all over...!!! I saw Budbud's collection....Im amazed. LOL. Ive never seen that before ever....!!! Now that dude loves Savages....!!!!

ausrcnut

 Can you get 17mm hex's for the MGT8.0 for wider range of wheel selection and applications....????

ntrain42

Tower is promoting the MGT 8.0 for $379? Do you have a link or coupon code to toss me?

driller2948

The Savage 17mm are a direct fit. If you want to take it to the next level The front uprights from a Mugen MBX5T look to be the exact same but made of better plastic. I have both the MGT & Mugen MBX5T! I'll get some pic's tonight.




http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...pright-X5R-X5T