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Thread: Brio!!!!!!


  1. #1
    Pattern freak's Avatar
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    Brio!!!!!!

    Hallo Mr.Don Scuzur,

    First of all welcome back and i read that you had a problem going to Romilly,that the airline didn`t ship your BRIO,i`am very sorry to hear that.To travel so far to compete and because you are not flying your own plane you are not able to fly to your full potential.It`s not nice.

    But congratulations on your 8th place that`s really incredable flying against so much pilots with a borrowed plane to place 8th it takes allot of skill.

    I`am really looking forward to buy the BRIO i`am flying a FOCUS 2 right now and we are going to the Worlds in 2007 in Argentina.
    Now that you have more flights on your BRIO,would you think the BRIO has more advantages than the FOCUS 2 ???.

    BTW i hope you can make it to Aruba this year????.

    Greg.
    www.arubarcclub.com
    G.S.Winklaar.2nd Place is the first loser.
    www.arubarc.com

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    RE: Brio!!!!!!

    Don,
    My congrats also, flying to 8th place against the best flyers in the world with a borrowed airplane! I hope your problems with shipping your airplane are not indicative of what we are facing in the future. How about sharing the issue the airlines had with shipping it?

    Anyway, congrats again. Hope to see you in Huntsville soon!

    Jon Lowe
    Jon Lowe

  3. #3
    Don Szczur's Avatar
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    RE: Brio!!!!!!

    Thanks- actually it was all done for learning experience. I almost pulled the whole thing off, with the exception of the fuselage. Suggest mounting the box so its hinged at the top and latched for easy inspection access. Also remember the golden advice they gave me. Don't depart unless you confirm that the plane is loaded on your flight. Missing a flight and catching the next one with the plane loaded is a lot easier than hours and hours on international calls...

    Any case I'm confident for the Worlds in France with six hours notice if called on to substitute for one of the U.S. fliers, if one of them cannot make it.

    Don

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    RE: Brio!!!!!!

    Don,

    Congrats on your excellent finish in Romilly.

    I'm anxious to hear your answer to Pattern Freak's questions regarding the Brio and how it flies compared to the Focus, and other planes for that matter. I'm quite intrigued by the plane and would like to hear more feedback regarding its flight characteristics and the quality of the kit, composite layup etc.

    I haven't heard of that many people getting one, I'm not sure why as it seems like a very nice plane at quite a reasonable price.

    Thanks,
    KeithB

  5. #5
    Don Szczur's Avatar
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    RE: Brio!!!!!!

    Well, I've had time to fly the Brio a lot, I think about 250 to 300 flights so far since Spring between the Brio and the Focus.

    The Brio presents better. The profile is large, but it does not fly like a kite, if you know what I mean. Its balanced pretty well aerodynamically. The speed is slower and more constant on the downlines. This is particularly important on the humpty bump from the top as well as outside loops, and things like cuban eights.

    The Brio requires (demands) less rudder correction. However, it takes some getting used to. When flew the Focus after practicing on the Brio for several weeks, I found it difficult to keep the wings level- because of the sight picture of the wings with respect to the fuselage. It only took a few flights to get back used to the Focus, but for comparisons, I went back to the Brio.

    The Brio has a lot more lift in the fuselage, and the rolls tend to be more axial, with less rudder input needed. I have reduced my rudder expo from 90 down to about 80 or 85. It gives the same feel for rudder input as the Focus, but not enough deflection to get into the "elbow" of the expo curve. Its a different kind of wind correction. Flying the Focus in a strong crosswind, I'd keep some opposite rudder in (opposite to the wind correction angle, basically to straighten the fuselage). This rudder put the plane into an "ever present slip" where the plane would give the illusion that it was flying in no wind at all. The Brio does not work that way. It likes to be guided into the wind on the lines, at a more natural crab angle. At first I had the impression that the Focus handled better in the wind, but after going back to the Focus, then back to the Brio, I realized that the Brio actually had less workload, because it did not require rudder like the Focus did. Well, you asked for my thoughts- there they are!

    By the way, rudder mixing- I have some up elevator with left rudder, and some opposite aileron with right rudder... and yes, I did put the traditional 3 turns (1/8 inch at trailing edge) of negative incidene in the left wing panel. The airplane locks much better with this at all airspeeds. Call it the "Szczur Incidence setup". Every plane I've flown flies better with this incidence setup.

    I will see if sometime by the end of the year, or if you see me at the NATS, I'll download my 10X my setup. So far I've flown 3 different Brio's and they all fly pretty much identically.

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    Pattern freak's Avatar
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    RE: Brio!!!!!!

    Thanks Don,

    It`s nice to hear that from the Master(Brio Master).
    Definitely with Gods help this will be my next plane for the Worlds in Argentina.

    Greg.
    www.arubarcclub.com
    G.S.Winklaar.2nd Place is the first loser.
    www.arubarc.com

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    RE: Brio!!!!!!

    Thanks Don, I just ordered one. I'd be interested in getting your 10X setup when you get a chance, no rush though.

    Best of luck at NATS!!!

    KeithB

  8. #8
    Don Szczur's Avatar
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    RE: Brio!!!!!!

    The BRIO has proven itself at the NATS. I highly recommend this aircraft. It performed superbly in the strong wind during the first day at the NATS, and it tackled all the difficult unknown maneuvers with ease. Its a great flying plane and has proven itself in competition. Three have made the finals (top 8) at the NATS. Congratulations to the designers and for Piedmont Models for a fine aircraft.

    Don

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    RE: Brio!!!!!!

    Hi Don,
    congratulations for your NAT results.
    Please could you explain me a little more the 1/8" negative incidence in the left panel, How do you correct that for straight flight, is it with the left aileron or with both?

    Best regards,
    Patricio.

  10. #10
    Don Szczur's Avatar
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    RE: Brio!!!!!!

    This is now officially my trademark trim input. You have heard it from me first. The negative in the left wing causes a need for right aileron trim. Some planes I've flown carry left aileron trim. The incidence change takes that out, and then some. It corrects a downward line rolling to the left, as well as a spin entry that wants to break to the left. The plane locks in better during pulls and pushes. I'd have to do some aerodynamic analysis, but it essentially counter-acts the slipstream of the propellor in a way to make the plane feel locked in. Its speed independent, so the faster the speed, the more the wing incidence takes over (thus the right roll at full throttle). At slower speeds, the aileron takes over, thus the correction on downlines and spin entries corrected. It matches things aerodynamically much, much better than throttle-to-rudder mix, which many use to counter engine torque/slipstream effects, I believe.

  11. #11
    Don Szczur's Avatar
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    RE: Brio!!!!!!

    You see how it works... When the plane is inverted, the left wing (with respect to the ground) still has the negative incidence in it (or opposite wing positive incidence).. if you use the throttle to rudder you now have the wrong rudder input. The incidence setup is in there the correct orientation whether the plane is upright or inverted. So it works with positive spin entries or negative spin entries.

    Thoughts,
    Don

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    RE: Brio!!!!!!

    Thanks Don,
    I will give it a try in my Eclipse.
    Patricio.

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    RE: Brio!!!!!!

    Hi Don,
    I am confused on the throttle to rudder mix as being wrong when inverted. I thought this set up was for a more speed dependent right thrust correction. Please correct me on this. We use right thrust or throttle to rudder mix to correct for the slipstream. I thought the slipsream was pushing on the left side of the vertical fin causing it to want to fly left. And when inverted the slipstream would push on the opposite side causing the plane to want fly to the right. So inverted the left thrust in the engine or left rudder mix would take care of this. Please help me out as I was thinking of trying the throttle rudder mix on my next pattern plane and building in less right thrust and using the mix on the rudder. Thanks for your help in answering my questions.

  14. #14
    Don Szczur's Avatar
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    RE: Brio!!!!!!

    I found that the throttle-to-rudder mix just did not feel as aerodynamically balanced as the incidence difference. Flying downwind, at less speed, vs flying upwind, at higher (airspeed). The incidence change feels more linear. Now I feel it the most at the top of a humpty bump. Try a long upline then an half inside loop. Then do the exact same humpty bump inverted, where you are pushing an oustide loop, everything else remaining equal. The right rudder during that pull (or push) causes one to have to input more right rudder when pulling, and input left rudder when pushing.

    Now, with left rudder (at low throttle) the exact opposite happens at the bottom of a pull out from a vertical down line (and a push to inverted from a vertical down line).

    Hard to explain, easier to feel it during the flight. Need a wind tunel to investigate this. For all I know its caused by gyroscopic forces.

    Cheers!

  15. #15
    Don Szczur's Avatar
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    RE: Brio!!!!!!

    Anyone interested in a datasafe file for the Brio?

  16. #16
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    RE: Brio!!!!!!

    Sure, thanks for offering. I've sent you a private email with my email address.

    Thanks,
    Keith B

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    RE: Brio!!!!!!

    Hi Don

    I'm interested in the Datasafe Brio file, I'll PM you with my address.
    Jay Barcelo - www.ScaleAerobatics.com


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