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  1. #51
    Don Szczur's Avatar
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    RE: Magic VF3 building thread

    Mount nose ring bracket, tack glue with a few dabs of epoxy. Sand the fiberglass for a good bond. Position nose ring mark, drill, then take engine out slide in nose ring behinc engine nose ring support put engine in, tighten screws. Here are some pictures from the front and the back. Note the holes are offset. If an engine thrust change is made later, it will allow you to rotate the nose ring, drill 2 more holes for re-mounting easily.

    Landing gear mounted. Put a couple of straight edges on the wheel part to get the struts pointed back straight during mounting and so they are both symmetric.
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  2. #52

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    RE: Magic VF3 building thread

    Don,
    Looking good. What landing gear are you using?

    John Pavlick
    Team Black Magic

  3. #53
    Don Szczur's Avatar
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    RE: Magic VF3 building thread

    These are Comp Arf- If enough people let a manufacturer or retailer know (Central Hobbies, TNT, etc) you are interested in having them stock gear, cf tubes, wheel pants and other hardware, they would likely find the demand profitable and justify stocking them.

    I spoke to a Mike and discovered it really is quite remarkable- there are hundreds of these Magic kits that have been built or are being built in a year's timeframe. That is several hundred sets of landing gear that are being consumed.

  4. #54
    rcpattern's Avatar
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    RE: Magic VF3 building thread

    Great job Don. You are going to love this plane. I now have over 400 flights between the prototype and my VF3. Plane is as rock steady as ever and is easily the best flying plane in high winds that I've ever flown,

    Arch
    Team Futaba, Aero-Model / Hacker, Tech Aero Designs, F3A Unlimited, Team BJ Craft, Thunder Power RC, Castle Creations

  5. #55
    Jeff Boyd 2's Avatar
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    RE: Magic VF3 building thread

    Bolly Products make GREAT CF Landing gear and spats . .

    http://www.bolly.com.au/models/undercarts.html

    Attached are a couple of pics of the "F3A Curved Back" gear, with the "F3A Small" wheel pants (in natural carbon fibre) fitted to my Impact.

    They are well made and very light. I have given them a work-out on the odd occasion, and they hold up very well.

    The spat weighs 0.49oz., and a leg weighs 1.94ox.

    Apparently, they are working on Carbon F3A legs hollow moulded. Interesting.

    Cheers, Jeff
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    South Australian Pattern Association web = http://sapa-f3a.blogspot.com/

  6. #56
    Don Szczur's Avatar
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    RE: Magic VF3 building thread

    Chin cowl cutout and pipe notional mounting. Its a great setup for the servicability standpoint. You can reach all the landing gear screws and muffler mount from the exhaust exit hole.

    Holes drilled for the side chin cowl screws I plan to mount the back similar to the front of the canopy- with two wires going into nyrod inserts.

    Pictures attached.
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  7. #57
    Don Szczur's Avatar
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    RE: Magic VF3 building thread

    Mounted chin cowl perfect fit a usual. Used two 1/16 wires with nyrod as the inner piece going into two ply squares that are behind the chin cowl. Mount pieces of 1/8 ply at each location on the side and under the front. Make the front piece long enough so it won't ever break loose. I made mine about 2 inches long but curved to fit inside the cowl surface. Drill, then mount the blind nuts. Put the blind nuts tightened to about 2/3 amount then drop a few thick CA then tighten the screws all the way.

    Make a stand out of the extra foam pieces. This is handy for inverting the airplane and the foam pieces fit precisely for a nice stand.

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  8. #58
    Don Szczur's Avatar
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    RE: Magic VF3 building thread

    Wings sanded tips. Use a sheet of white paper laid on the wing just inside the tip to help protect the wing sheeting and go get a good parallel sand. When down to the last 1/32 inch then sand through without the paper in place. This process takes time but 80 grit paper and the light balsa makes it less painful. Fuselage is light. Dale, Goob and Terry were impressed with the lightness of the fuselage (even with engine mount and landing gear). I weighed the wings. One is at 10.1 oz the other 10.4. I still need to final sand, put the bevels in and sand the LE and tips round. Will dremel out the heavy tip to balance, then re=sheet the tip with 1/16 or 1/8 very light balsa.

  9. #59
    Don Szczur's Avatar
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    RE: Magic VF3 building thread

    Rear fuselage and rudder pieces put in place. Back block hollowed and glued in place. Rudder LE and Fin TE glued in place after sanding surfaces straight.
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  10. #60
    Don Szczur's Avatar
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    RE: Magic VF3 building thread

    Sand, fit and rough sanding of rudder and fin. The back piece filler between the fin and fuselage- added a piece of 1/8 inch light balsa as a spacer then filled the area with 1/16 sheeting, light weight, and then sanded to blend it in. Its lightest to use a small piece of 1/16 balsa to fill any cracks and gaps. Basically sand the pieces at an angle (like a wedge) then a drop of foam-safe CA and press them in place. They shave well with a knife and a few passes with the sanding block and they are flush with adjacent surfaces. A good light technique.

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  11. #61
    Don Szczur's Avatar
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    RE: Magic VF3 building thread

    One last check of the setups before final finishing. I found the fuselage sides, as accurate as they are (at the balsa junctions), its much more accurate than incidence meters. Basically you can get down to 1 /64 inch accuracy. Airframe is together- its starting to look like a plane. Elevator cutouts. Mark 3 1/4 inches from the TE at the elevator edge (vs tip). Per plans. Cut using band saw using the foam chuck as a guide for good straight cuts that are perpendicular. 1/4 inch TE of stab and 3/8 inch LE of elevator.

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  12. #62
    Don Szczur's Avatar
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    RE: Magic VF3 building thread

    How do you find the center lines? Measure them before doing the tapers, also drill the holes for the control arms before doing the tapers. The 1/2 inch dowls really sand easily. To find servo holes in the wing after the wing is sheeted (and the balsa inserts in the control surface ailerons and rudder before drilling the holes, hold up to a light and you can see through the wing like an x ray. Servos mounted with 1/8 lite ply and pre drilled before covering. Everything else per instructions, which were pretty clear on the other related items.

    Don
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  13. #63
    Don Szczur's Avatar
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    RE: Magic VF3 building thread

    Is there anything else anyone wants to know about this plane?

    Don

  14. #64

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    RE: Magic VF3 building thread

    G'day Don,

    Great build thread.

    How about how all the radio gear and wheels/pants etc are installed and also equipment/accesory selection etc?

    How do you intend to finish the model? Glass, Film or combination etc?

    Cheers
    Jason.

  15. #65
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    RE: Magic VF3 building thread

    Been lookin at them there Bolly CF wheel pants real close, mate. I don't want to be thinking about the extra several ounces of a painted plane at the 11 o clock position of the knife edge loop. Really looking forward to ultracote at this point, but am still open to options for a few more days before the iron takes itself to the balsa. Been debating whether a thinned coat of balsarite will stiffen the balsa surface a bit. Its really light, but also really soft on the surface. Somehow the front end and canopy will be painted. My 2003 NATS winning focus was all balsa iron on covered by Dave Guerin and I tell you after probably several hundred flights the covering still looks like new. I'm studying the elevators he covered on the workbench tonight. How best to mimic his magic touch.

  16. #66

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    RE: Magic VF3 building thread

    Yes the Bolly stuff is real nice gear.

    On this thread and Dean's, I don't recall seeing any hinging of surfaces detail i.e. the type of hinge used size of bevels etc. I would normally cut the slots or drill the holes before doing any bevels. What hingeline gaps should be aimed for??

    See there's still plenty to discuss.. lol

    Cheers
    Jason.

  17. #67
    Don Szczur's Avatar
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    RE: Magic VF3 building thread

    Yes. first you cut the discs for the control horn threaded piece. For elevator servos mounting in tail, mark with a pen the outline of the servo of choice. I use JR 9411SA servos. Cut with razor saw the outline of the servo then pry out the foam piece and cut/sand to clean up the newly cut servo box. Use a straight edge to mark the control threaded screw hard point dowel, then cut away with the hole saw you made with (yes your wife's wind chime tube). Take your wife's wind chime, rip off one of the tubes, sharpen it to make a hole cutter and go to it. Its easier to cut the hole in the right place and perpendicular before sanding the taper in the control surface. Also, don't go more than about 3/4 the way through. That way there is no protrusion of the hard point (1/2 inch dowel) in the top of the control surface taper. Use high strength CA if all balsa, or epoxy and micro balloons if exposed to foam. Use a rasp to get the angle right, or better yet a razor plane if you have one and are skilled with it. I used a rasp and 80 grit sand paper block. The 80 grit goes through the hard point and the balsa at equal rates without a buldge around the hard point edges.

    By the way the larger size wind chime tube works well for the aileron extension wire access hole in the wing. You might as well use it since at this point you've destroyed the rest of the wind chime. Tape an extension on so it goes through to the aileron servo cutout box.

    Later,

    Don
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  18. #68
    Don Szczur's Avatar
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    RE: Magic VF3 building thread

    Don't forget I built this plane with no jigs, laser levels or any other gizmos. A #2 pencil line drawn down the center of an old counter top was the extent of it. All the laser cut pieces in the kit make the plane straight since all pieces are cut at exactly 90 degree like boxes. Its pretty hard to build it crooked and the fuselage is both very stiff, and light. A good thing to consider during the 7 o clock position coming off the back side of the knife edge loop. When I'm done this I'll mail Mike Hester a CD with all the pictures I took so he can include it in his kits if he chooses.

    So the next question I anticipate will be the tank mount. Two pieces of balsa mounted Across to provide front an back support. Two 1/32 inch spacers above the wing tube socked glued in place, then secured with slow thick Mercury CA that I was given as a gift at the ETOC. By the way this Mercury CA is really good stuff. I'm really impressed.

    I mounted the rudder servo tray removable, so if needed one can get to the wing adjusters later for removal during finishing. That one may be me.
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  19. #69

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    RE: Magic VF3 building thread

    Don,
    I learned a few tips from your build (hard points don't go all the way through) - Thanks! I just finished a 'Magic V2.2. I was worried about the weight of a painted finish too. I was going to cover it with Monokote but I couldn't figure out a good way to blend the painted cowl and covering so instead I covered the fuse with lightweight silkspan + dope. I then painted with Nelson Acrylic Urethane. The silkspan + dope is about 2 oz. lighter than a 'glass finish AND it takes less primer too. You might want to give it a try. I started a thread on Mike's forum to show what I did. I just need to upload the pic's and write up some details.

    John Pavlick
    Team Black Magic

  20. #70
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    RE: Magic VF3 building thread

    I've been sorta quiet on this thread to keep it "clean" so to speak. The ones in the main forum get spammed up pretty fast. Yes, I'd LOVE to get those pics! It's very difficult for me to remember to take pictures during a build and I always get in a hurry or just plain forget. I want to go back and rewrite the instructions to be more thorough especially now that I can see where people's problem areas are. They are usually the same, just something is unclear that I take for granted.

    The weight on this plane can be pretty much whatever you want it to be, within reason. I have one I'm doing up here to help Don out that will be all paint (even the wings if there's enough time) and it will be an experiment in lightness. I have a monokote one that weighs 9 lbs 10 ozs in monokote that I didn't pay attention to the weight at all on, so if I can match that or beat it with a fully painted plane, that would be cool. Plus this gives me an excuse to break out these killer airbrushes that have been calling my name for about a year now.

    I'm VERY interested in that finishing method John, so you have your assignment! LOL

    Don, the balsarite with monokote will strengthen the wood dramatically. It's already an extremely rigid structure, but as you mentioned, this wood is stupid light, so dent resistant it ain't. I didn't seal the plane I'm now flying (the red one you flew is dead), and it has it's share of dings and dents. I don't think you'll find much flexing on that KE loop either way, for what it's worth. (And after testing that theory a little, I think you're truly on to something by the way! I would have never thought of that....) Also FWIW that red plane was 10 lbs 12 ozs when you flew it. Dean got a little crazy with the paint....

    I added a few tricks to my bag as well from this thread....man I love the net!

    If you figure out how Dave does monokote like that, let me know, because I can't do it. I do ok by anyone's standards but Dave's monokote is on another level. Looks like painted glass! What I did on this one was to sand and fill the cowl area like a painted plane. Then tape back about 1/4" onto the wood, no glass....and prime and paint the nose. Then pull the tape, sand down the ridge (carefully) and overlap the monokote. Just pull the monokote down TIGHT and make certain to get a clean edge. It will have that icky seam, but just a little graphic placement there and your eyes get distracted just enough where you have to stare at it to see it. I use our YS dragon logo there because it looks neat and is "busy", but anything that looks cool and is a bit busy works. YS logo with a carbon vinyl flame job? LOL

    Well, I have a massive stack of foam to cut so I better get back to it. Oh and some work on this 110 Magic before I get lynched by the masses......whoda thought?

    -Mike
    Thanks to my sponsors over the years!

  21. #71
    Don Szczur's Avatar
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    RE: Magic VF3 building thread

    Elevator servos mounted using a few small pieces of 1/8 lite ply. Cut them so the overlap either side of the servo well and are wider by about 1/8 to 1/4 inch. Use med Foam CA to glue. Mercury foam safe CA is the best foam CA I've used. Make a tool (or wrap a piece of 80 grit sandpaper around a 1/4 inch dowl and sand down the seamline to make sure all the mold release is sanded out, then dabble some epoxy and micro-ballons along the seam. The Goldberg quick set epoxy is very light, sands well, and has micro-balloons already pre mixed. Sand seam and it looks great. Draw lines on the center of each surface and use a exacto knife to slit for the hinges. Put the control surfaces on and then sand to get a perfectly smooth transition between the stab surface and elevator surface. I waited until after hinging then took the surface off, sanded in the taper and its all done. Write down somewhere exactly where the spacing position of the hinges are so after covering you can just cut a slit in the covering, put a few drops of thin CA and the control surfaces are done. Pictures show the process.
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  22. #72
    Don Szczur's Avatar
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    RE: Magic VF3 building thread

    Well we are getting close to complete with content. As requested, stab mounting. I would put pictuers of this next step but I've already got that part of the stab covered, so you'll just have to visualize how to mount the stab tube mounting screws.

    Put the stab tube in the fuselage

    Measure each side to get it about centered. The PBG tube protrudes about 5 1/4 inches on each side. I drew a mark on the tube where it exited the fuselage on each side, then removed the tube and put it in the stab half that amount. Using a straight edge I measured 4 1/2 inches from the root and marked the stab bottom, centered on where the tube would be inside the stab. If you hold the ruler on each side of the tube and make a mark, then put a mark between the two, its centered. Eye ball down the tube to double check.

    Get out a 3/8 inch tube (like a cf pushrod laying around) and poke/drill a hole through the balsa and down the foam until you hit the stab tube. Take out the excess foam, shove in a 3/8 inch dowl, mark it, cut it, sand it so its kind of flush. Note that your pen mark around the dowel when you mark it is about 1/32 inch above the stab surface, so sand slightly past the pen mark and the dowel should fit really close with little sanding after you epoxy it in place with microballons added. Put the stab half back in the foam chuck which keeps the hole drilled perpendicular, then after the epoxy dries, drill a 1/16 inch hole through the dowl and through one side of the stab tube surface, and through the stab tube. Take out the stab tube and put in a small piece of 3/8 inch dowl into the stab tube to strenghten the screw hole. Its not a perfect fit but you can jam a piece of 1/32 inch balsa to get it to stay. Put some thick Mercury CA and acclerator, then put the stab tube back into the stab. Use a pin to find the hole and align it with the original one drilled. Then drill back down with the 1/16 hole through the inserted dowl (inside the stab tube) but not through the other side of the stab tube. Take a small allen head servo mounting screw (Central Hobbies stocks bags of 50 for these) and screw away. Its a tight fit and it works well. Put this assembly back into the plane and put the other stab in place (after you epoxy in the dowl in the other stab like you did for the first). Pull the stab sides snug to the fuselage and use a drill through the other side with 1/16 drill bit. Remove the stab side, put another small 3/8 dowl and CA in place inside the tube, re-drill the 1/16 hole, screw in a servo mounting screw and its done.

    The front stab incidence adjusters retain the stabs, but the extra screws provide some added security. Take the stab tube out and mark "R" and "L" to assure you put it in and use the pin in the hole and mark to find the hole again when its time for final assembly before flying.

    Guys thats about it for the magic. I'm starting to cover it now. My daughter picked out purple, so thats as far as I'm going. A little but not too much. Many cheers. If you want to learn the trimming techniques. You can get the video I go into tons of details on trimming and setup of mixes and thrust. The plane incidence should be set up pretty close to instructions to fly really well. Unless there are more questions, we'll talk to you then.

    Don

  23. #73
    MHester's Avatar
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    RE: Magic VF3 building thread

    Awesome build and great thread Don, many thanks! I hope you enjoy the plane as much as the rest of us do. be sure to post up some pics of the finished plane as well as a brief summary of the testing/trimming (hopefully it's pretty short and straight forward LOL)

    Congrats!

    -Mike
    Thanks to my sponsors over the years!

  24. #74

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    RE: Magic VF3 building thread

    Don,

    Sure would like to see some updates on your V3. You have a nice thread here and I'm sure there are others that would like to see you continue this thread. Your workmanship is really good and I would love to see more.

    Thank you

    Larry Odom

  25. #75
    Don Szczur's Avatar
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    RE: Magic VF3 building thread

    I'll see if I can get some pictures and some additional descriptions on several setups. Here are the stats:

    Weight 10Lbs 5 oz
    Engine YS 170 DZ
    Covering: Ultracote
    Painted forward of landing gear
    Radio- JR 12x 2.4
    Servos 8611A rudder, 8411SA ailerons 9411SA elevators, 368 Throttle
    Prop 18.1x10 APC Harrison proto
    Receiver 1221 with 4 rx's (3 satellites that come with the rx)- one on the other side of the tank, one in the back deck, one in the front deck

    Update (as of last week): YS 170 Ignition
    Fuel- Cool Power 30% low oil


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