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H9 ultimate questions

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Old 10-01-2007, 11:31 PM
  #1
Lormuhl
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Default H9 ultimate questions

I have just started to build a H9 46% Ultimate and have questions for some owners of this beauty. My plan is to use a DA150 on slimline smoke mufflers, single 5955's on ailerons and each elevator. I have not decided on rudder servos, 2 or 3 5955's or one Seiko. What are the CG issues, if any, with a DA150. Also, what are you guys using for power systems, fuel tank size, smoke tank size, engine prop, etc. I am considering using unregulated A123 cells for receiver, Spekrum, and DA ignition. Any information would be helpfull.
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Old 10-02-2007, 08:53 AM
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Default RE: H9 ultimate questions

No CG issues that arent helpful. It tends to come out nose heavy, and I recommend moving the rudder servos to the tail. It helps the CG and tail mounted rudder servos are better so its a win win. The CG in the manul is a little too nose heavy BTW, and fear not because I absolutely hate the feel of a tail heavy airplane.
use a 50 oz fuel tank. If noise isnt an issue a Mej 30 x 10 really pulls but howls. A Mej 32 x 10 is good for IMAC.
The battery system is good as long as the Hitec servos tolerate it. I have no knowlege there.
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Old 10-02-2007, 03:55 PM
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Default RE: H9 ultimate questions

Thank you for the info. Would you recommend two or three 5955's for the rudder?
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Old 10-02-2007, 04:14 PM
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Default RE: H9 ultimate questions

Not familiar with the Hitec stuff, but I will say that it needs a lot of power on the rudder. I flew my buddies in am IMAC contest a few weeks ago and with 3 x 8611 (not 8611A) on rudder, I felt it was getting some blowback in certain situations.
Dont take this wrong, but most people wouldnt notice it so it was very close.
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Old 10-02-2007, 05:21 PM
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Default RE: H9 ultimate questions

I've got 4 8611's on mine. Dennis
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Old 10-02-2007, 05:29 PM
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Default RE: H9 ultimate questions

Are the 4 8611's in the tail or in the center . And if so are you using a tray and how long is the arm, 4" or 5", offset or straight?
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Old 10-02-2007, 05:31 PM
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Default RE: H9 ultimate questions

Are there any Seiko rudder owners?
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Old 10-03-2007, 09:57 AM
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Default RE: H9 ultimate questions

I got one of the first out and used a tray in the aft of center. The main arm is 5". since that time Mike has found that putting in the tail helps in the CG. When this winter coming and i recover the plane i will move them to the tail. I've only had one wish on the plane and that is i wished the main gear was taller. But thats me and some of my bad landing. Dennis
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Old 10-03-2007, 03:41 PM
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Default RE: H9 ultimate questions

Thanks again for the info. Are you using one servo per aileron and if so any blowback or flutter issues?
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Old 10-04-2007, 08:47 AM
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Default RE: H9 ultimate questions

Lormuhl,

We have a Seiko on the rudder. We removed the case to prevent overheating and related centering problems. It is run by a 3 cell, 3000mAh lipo with a separate switch - its amazingly fast and we have not encountered any blowback - knife edge loops are no problem. I am mostly worried about it tearing the rudder horn out. We have 8611a servos all around, 2 per aileron is overkill, your single Hitecs will be more than enough.

We balanced ours at 9.25" back from the from of the carbon winglet, just like the manual says. The Seiko is positioned just behind the hatch opening, we had to add a couple ounces of lead to the motor box to get it to balance, it does have a slightly nose heavy feel. For power we use a Powerbox with servo matching, it allowed us to eliminate all the match boxes. For batteries we have 2 Duralite 4000 mAh Li ions.

The only thing to be careful of is to check all your glue joints, at this point almost all of ours have needed some attention (the bottom of the motor box came loose last weekend).

Good luck, its a wonderful plane

Phil
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Old 10-04-2007, 08:53 AM
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Default RE: H9 ultimate questions

Hi Mike and other Ultimate Enthusiasts

My Son banged up his Ultimate last weekend.

We need a new left lower wing panel. Horizon says they are out of stock until at least December.

Do you or does anyone know where I can find one now?

Phil
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Old 10-04-2007, 01:49 PM
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Default RE: H9 ultimate questions

Pfact, thank you for the info. My plan was to use the Seiko, but did not know of any issues with the servo, but with your experience, seals the deal. Are you using a 5" arm on the servo and a 10-32 rod for the rudder? Is the arm straight or offset and is the cables straight or crossed?
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Old 10-04-2007, 02:06 PM
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Default RE: H9 ultimate questions

Yes - a 10-32 threaded rod in the rudder, bent forward to bring the pivot pins over the hinge. Our wires are crossed and we are using an offset arm from Troy Built models, I think it is 4".

I have a photo of the servo but the RCU server won't accept it, PM me your email and I'll send it to you.

Phil

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Old 10-04-2007, 04:15 PM
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Default RE: H9 ultimate questions

PM sent with email address. Thanks again.
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Old 10-19-2007, 06:58 PM
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Default RE: H9 ultimate questions

HOW DUE YOU PLACE 4 SERVOS IN THE TAIL? WOULD 2 8711 IN THE TAIL BE GOOD? AND ARE YOU PLACING THE WING SERVOS IN THE
INBOARD OR OUTBOARD LOCATION OR SHOULD I CUT OUT A BAY IN THE MIDDLE. ANY INFO WOULD HELP AS I HAVE EVERYTHING I NEED
TO COMPLETE MINE JUST NEED SERVOS THANKS FOR THE HELP.

BOOTS
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Old 11-05-2007, 11:25 PM
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Default RE: H9 ultimate questions

Phil, I have installed the Seiko and tested on the bench with a 3cell 123A pack and wow what a weapon. cant wait to fly. Are you using a DA150 and if so what prop and does it have enough power to pull out?My flying style is 50/50 sport, no competition yet. I plan on using stock exhaust and I fly close to sea level.
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Old 11-06-2007, 12:24 AM
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Default RE: H9 ultimate questions

You are correct the Seiko can be considered a weapon - when driven at 12 volts the thing is so fast you can do some serious damage with the rudder! I worry about ripping the rudder horns loose.

We have a DA-150 with stock mufflers and a Mezjlik 32-10. We have had good luck with this prop and use it on all our DA-150s. So far we sense no lack of power despite the plane weighing 46 pounds. I will add baffling to the cowl this winter which should give us the opportunity to powerup the DA-150 a bit more.

We lost a prop during a pullout from a hover recently. We tightened the prop bolts immediately before the flight probably fracturing one and the rest was history. My Son was flying at the time and recovered nicely, we lost the right lower wing and the lower wing tube, twisted the cabanes a bit, and destroyed the engine hub. We did everything recommended in the Troy Built Models advisory to prevent this (washers, locktite, daily tightening). We have had problems breaking prop bolts in the past so we now use a torque wrench to make sure the bolts are between 60 and 75 ft lbs at the start of each day and instead of locktite we have a small amount of grease on the prop bolt threads to prevent galling. Flying Giants has 2 very helpful threads on the issue of lost props and prop bolt management. We also switched out 8611a's for 8411s on the ailerons to reduce weight and free up the 8611a's for other projects. We had a single, recurrent glitch that occurred at 2 flying fields which prompted us to change from the Emcotec DSPI twin with Longo batteries with matchboxes in each wing to the Powerbox 40/24 SC-12 with duralite LI-ions. When the same glitch developed in one of our jets we figured out that it was a transmitter (14MZ) problem (bad right stick). I'm not sure if the Li-ions can deliver enough power so we may switch to Li-Mn or Li-Po.

At this point we have invested a huge amount of time on this one but as of today its ready to fly again, all we need is less wind and higher air temps!


Phil
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Old 11-06-2007, 10:47 PM
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Default RE: H9 ultimate questions

Thanks for the reply. I think I will try the 32-10 first and see how it goes. I am probly about 2 months away before maiden. I decided to go stock exhaust due to fly close to sea level here. I am setting up two AR7000's with Smart Fly, dual output switches, using the A123 cells, unregulated to make it simple. I have done some of my own testing with the A123 cells and like them better than my Li-ions, Ni meths and Li po setups. The info on the prop bolts are very helpfull, will really keep an eye on those. I have a DA100 Yak and a couple of 50cc'ers, but this will be my first Da150. Thanks again for the info.
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Old 11-07-2007, 12:33 AM
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Default RE: H9 ultimate questions

I need some starting point for setting up a smoke system on a 45 cc gasser , i have a sullivan sky writter ready to go in , but need to know what size tank and where do you recommend the injection tap in the muffler ? also what type of smoke oil is recommended ?? thank tc.
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Old 01-05-2008, 10:12 AM
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Default RE: H9 ultimate questions

First I would like to thank everyone for their advise on my Ultimate build.
Update on my Ultimate. Maiden flight was the Dec 31st, 43 degrees and slightly above sea level. Initial flight, elevators are even, trim at 0, rudder even, trim zero, ailerons three clicks right trim. Inverted flight takes very slight down elevator to maintain level flight, perfect for me. Knife edge, both directions 8 degrees and 45 degree up line good. Question is, to trim level flight the ailerons need very slight right trim for hands off. I rechecked my lateral balance, incedence and measurements on the wings, top to bottom wing. The horizontal halfs are even. Does this airframe require a slight amout of right trim to level? I am very pleased with this plane and just looking to fine tune if needed, otherwise Im very happy.I can see why this thing torque rolls easily. The Seiko rudder servo is a monster, whereas I have never flown a plane with so much rudder power. My setup is;

DA150, stock DA mufflers with A123 2300 2 cell ignition pack, no reg, smartfly ignition cut.
32-10 Mezlik prop.
Pete's 6" carbon spinner.
5955s on all surfaces except the rudder has a Seiko with its own 3 cell A123 2300 pack and HD switch.
Two AR 7000 receivers, using two HD smart fly switches, and 2 2 cell A123 2300 batteries, with no regs.
50oz fuel tank.
Plane weight, without fuel 40lbs, 12 ozs. I weighed the plane with three different digital fishing scales, hanging from my garage ceiling and they were within 2 ozs of one another, 40 lbs 12 ozs being the highest. I will need to go with some expo on the throttle, due to this thing hovers at a very low rpm and wants to torque roll easily. The engine has about one hour of run time, breaking in with 32:1 lawnboy.
Mike, you said the 30-10 is a good prop, but is noisy. In your opinion, do you like the wood props or the carbons better?
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Old 01-05-2008, 11:59 AM
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Default RE: H9 ultimate questions

Its very difficult to get a totally dead straight wing, on any model. I dont think I've ever owned a model that didnt tale a click or two of aileron trim .
I normally prefer CF props.
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Old 01-05-2008, 12:43 PM
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Default RE: H9 ultimate questions

Thanks Mike for the quick reply. Im very happy with the plane and I'll try the 30-10 Mezlik and not worry about the slight right aileron trim.
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Old 01-07-2008, 08:03 PM
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Default RE: H9 ultimate questions

I'm just starting to build my Ultimate. I see no pictures in the instructions on tank mounting/location. Anyone have any suggestions on best tank location and structure to hold it? How about a picture of your set up. I plan on using a 50 oz gas and a 32oz smoke.
Thanks.
Mark
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Old 01-07-2008, 09:42 PM
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Default RE: H9 ultimate questions

We use 50oz tanks for both gas and smoke. They sit atop a piece of ply that has velcro strips attached to it. A photo showing the general location is attached.

Phil


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Old 01-08-2008, 12:19 AM
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No smoke on mine yet, but will install tanks like pfact, side by side. Phil, thanks for the info when I was building mine. Did you get the glitches figured out?
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