First autos
07-20-2007, 02:41 AM
#26
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RE: First autos
P-Diddy,
You are welcome.
There might be some truth in what your guru says, but blade inertia is far more important. Apart from which, up to the point when you enter your auto, you are already driving the rotor with engine power so the blades start from a high speed anyhow.
To cheat a little, you can also set your throttle hold position a little higher than idle.
Just remember, if you don't like what's happening during the glide phase, just turn throttle hold off and ease in the power and go around for another try.
But most importantly....If you have a sim, please try it there first. I take no responsibility...blah blah blah.....for injury or death....blah blah blah....etc etc.
Good Luck!!
You are welcome.
There might be some truth in what your guru says, but blade inertia is far more important. Apart from which, up to the point when you enter your auto, you are already driving the rotor with engine power so the blades start from a high speed anyhow.
To cheat a little, you can also set your throttle hold position a little higher than idle.
Just remember, if you don't like what's happening during the glide phase, just turn throttle hold off and ease in the power and go around for another try.
But most importantly....If you have a sim, please try it there first. I take no responsibility...blah blah blah.....for injury or death....blah blah blah....etc etc.
Good Luck!!
07-20-2007, 08:59 AM
#27
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RE: First autos
Archie is correct about the "dead mans curve". At 10-15', you are at the hardest altitude to do a auto. Try playing with it a 5' and get the correct feel on the collective, then go upstairs. 40-50' is easier then what you've been doing. Like BH said earlier, keep the forward speed up, at about 10' you should pull back and burn off the forward speed, remember when you go nose high the heli is going to want to stop its descent, (just like in a hover, nose high with same collective will cause you to climb) so a little more - collective may be needed. Then you just have to get the nose back down and it's just like the auto you did a few minutes earlier from 5'.
07-20-2007, 11:36 AM
#28
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RE: First autos
P-Diddy,
I really can't tell you how happy I was after my high auto, it was just like on the sim, and I agree with the advice to practise on the sim first.
At the start my autos were VERY hit or miss. As I did more and more of them I started to get more right than wrong. I reakon I must easily have done 1500 autos on the sim, from all heights. I made the blades lighter to make them harder and kept practising.
Last night I got back up to the site. The sun (yes, we do get some sun in Northern Ireland) was in a bad place in relation to the wind direction so I only did low autos, around 5 ft. I think I did somewhere in the region of 70 of them, some good, some a little rough around the edges, but no damage.
I watched Rays Authoritive DVD series, a review is here on RCU courtesy of Barracuda Hockey, and in it you see Ray doing autos as he field trims the Raptor. I never realised the heli fell so fast during an auto until I saw this. If you try to slow the decent too much you will have no energy by the time you get to the bottom. And SPLAT.
Find some auto footage on YouTube to see what I mean about the fall rate.
I wanna do more autos
I really can't tell you how happy I was after my high auto, it was just like on the sim, and I agree with the advice to practise on the sim first.
At the start my autos were VERY hit or miss. As I did more and more of them I started to get more right than wrong. I reakon I must easily have done 1500 autos on the sim, from all heights. I made the blades lighter to make them harder and kept practising.
Last night I got back up to the site. The sun (yes, we do get some sun in Northern Ireland) was in a bad place in relation to the wind direction so I only did low autos, around 5 ft. I think I did somewhere in the region of 70 of them, some good, some a little rough around the edges, but no damage.
I watched Rays Authoritive DVD series, a review is here on RCU courtesy of Barracuda Hockey, and in it you see Ray doing autos as he field trims the Raptor. I never realised the heli fell so fast during an auto until I saw this. If you try to slow the decent too much you will have no energy by the time you get to the bottom. And SPLAT.
Find some auto footage on YouTube to see what I mean about the fall rate.
I wanna do more autos
07-21-2007, 01:28 PM
#29
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RE: First autos
Hi all,
UPDATE:
I got back up to the site today and flew 2 tanks of nothing but high autos.
As suggested here by Baracuda and others, I set my throttle hold a little high so I had some drive to the blades.
Then after about a dozen like this I reduced the Throttle hold a bit and did another dozen.
After the first tank and a half I had the throttle hold down to normal and was doing REAL autos.
In fairness some were, err, poor, but most were Ok(ish), and the occasional one was NICEEEE. [8D]
Thank you one and all for the helpful advice, I thank you and my Titan thanks you.
UPDATE:
I got back up to the site today and flew 2 tanks of nothing but high autos.
As suggested here by Baracuda and others, I set my throttle hold a little high so I had some drive to the blades.
Then after about a dozen like this I reduced the Throttle hold a bit and did another dozen.
After the first tank and a half I had the throttle hold down to normal and was doing REAL autos.
In fairness some were, err, poor, but most were Ok(ish), and the occasional one was NICEEEE. [8D]
Thank you one and all for the helpful advice, I thank you and my Titan thanks you.
07-22-2007, 07:54 PM
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RE: First autos
I was doing autos on Sunday and fluffed one in zero wind conditions. I lost a little too much headspeed on the flair (not enough forward speed) and the heli dropped just a little too hard onto the ground and I heard a "kerching" sound.
I was very, very lucky - one of the rotors had just brushed the top of the boom. I fly with glass fiber rotors most of the time and there was just a scuff mark of white gelcoat across the top of the boom. I know the rotor had not twisted in the blade grips because I had just tightened them for the purpose of the autos.
One thing that is interesting to try, with your rotors fitted is to push down and see much effort is required to get it anywhere near the boom. It gives you a little insight into how much force is developed in rough landings.
I was very, very lucky - one of the rotors had just brushed the top of the boom. I fly with glass fiber rotors most of the time and there was just a scuff mark of white gelcoat across the top of the boom. I know the rotor had not twisted in the blade grips because I had just tightened them for the purpose of the autos.
One thing that is interesting to try, with your rotors fitted is to push down and see much effort is required to get it anywhere near the boom. It gives you a little insight into how much force is developed in rough landings.
07-22-2007, 09:45 PM
#32
RE: First autos
Okay, I have to say a BIG THANK YOU to you folks!!
I went out today and did about 15 autos from heights of 75-125 feet up. It took much more inner strength than I thought I would need to move that throttle hold switch the first time. I chickened out on the first flight and then regained my resolve to try it. I just didn't think the heli could do it, but I was so wrong!
Some of them were bouncy, a couple were near perfect, and all of them were scary as heck. I made one HUGE mistake on the last one, and that was that I said, "this is the last one for the day...". And, naturally, it was, only because I set down just on the far side of the runway in the hay field and it tipped over. The blades did about a half turn and stopped and there was no damage. However, I'm going to replace them since they are wood and I've heard some horror stories about wood blades that have touched the ground and seemed unscathed only to later come apart at 1800 RPM's and... well, that sounds like a bad thing to me...
So, anyway, thank you very much archie, barracuda, big feet, badazz, and everyone else who has posted useful and encouraging information. I took your advice, and you were right... IT WAS AWESOME
I went out today and did about 15 autos from heights of 75-125 feet up. It took much more inner strength than I thought I would need to move that throttle hold switch the first time. I chickened out on the first flight and then regained my resolve to try it. I just didn't think the heli could do it, but I was so wrong!
Some of them were bouncy, a couple were near perfect, and all of them were scary as heck. I made one HUGE mistake on the last one, and that was that I said, "this is the last one for the day...". And, naturally, it was, only because I set down just on the far side of the runway in the hay field and it tipped over. The blades did about a half turn and stopped and there was no damage. However, I'm going to replace them since they are wood and I've heard some horror stories about wood blades that have touched the ground and seemed unscathed only to later come apart at 1800 RPM's and... well, that sounds like a bad thing to me...
So, anyway, thank you very much archie, barracuda, big feet, badazz, and everyone else who has posted useful and encouraging information. I took your advice, and you were right... IT WAS AWESOME
07-22-2007, 10:33 PM
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RE: First autos
ORIGINAL: P-Diddy
However, I'm going to replace them since they are wood and I've heard some horror stories about wood blades that have touched the ground and seemed unscathed only to later come apart at 1800 RPM's and... well, that sounds like a bad thing to me...
However, I'm going to replace them since they are wood and I've heard some horror stories about wood blades that have touched the ground and seemed unscathed only to later come apart at 1800 RPM's and... well, that sounds like a bad thing to me...
Here is a video of what happens with wood blades at excessive speeds.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ko8Yp3Kv6Is&NR
07-22-2007, 11:48 PM
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RE: First autos
USMC,
I saw your comment also in the other thread regarding rpm on wood blades.
Just curious where the figure 1,600rpm was derived from? Not questioning what you say, but is this a figure that originated with blade manufacturers or is it something that the community came up with based on experience?
Found this which might be of interest, but it is not relevant to 550 / 600mm blades http://www.techmodelproducts.com/Blades.htm
Like I said elsewhere, I generally fly GRP / FRP but never wood, so I woodn't know (harr harr
)
BTW, by the sound of the engine, I guess the rotor in that video was close to or in excess of 2,000rpm - any other opinions?
He also quite clearly had the collective servo reversed based on where the smoke was going.
And did you notice how the camera man started backing way??
I saw your comment also in the other thread regarding rpm on wood blades.
Just curious where the figure 1,600rpm was derived from? Not questioning what you say, but is this a figure that originated with blade manufacturers or is it something that the community came up with based on experience?
Found this which might be of interest, but it is not relevant to 550 / 600mm blades http://www.techmodelproducts.com/Blades.htm
Like I said elsewhere, I generally fly GRP / FRP but never wood, so I woodn't know (harr harr
)BTW, by the sound of the engine, I guess the rotor in that video was close to or in excess of 2,000rpm - any other opinions?
He also quite clearly had the collective servo reversed based on where the smoke was going.
And did you notice how the camera man started backing way??
07-23-2007, 02:57 AM
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RE: First autos
ORIGINAL: archiebald
USMC,
I saw your comment also in the other thread regarding rpm on wood blades.
Just curious where the figure 1,600rpm was derived from? Not questioning what you say, but is this a figure that originated with blade manufacturers or is it something that the community came up with based on experience?
BTW, by the sound of the engine, I guess the rotor in that video was close to or in excess of 2,000rpm - any other opinions?
He also quite clearly had the collective servo reversed based on where the smoke was going.
And did you notice how the camera man started backing way??
USMC,
I saw your comment also in the other thread regarding rpm on wood blades.
Just curious where the figure 1,600rpm was derived from? Not questioning what you say, but is this a figure that originated with blade manufacturers or is it something that the community came up with based on experience?
BTW, by the sound of the engine, I guess the rotor in that video was close to or in excess of 2,000rpm - any other opinions?
He also quite clearly had the collective servo reversed based on where the smoke was going.
And did you notice how the camera man started backing way??
As for the video, I think it was intentional. I believe they did it just to show what happens when the blades explode, which is why i put it on the post, to show what a heli looks like when blades fail at high headspeeds. I sure wouldn't chance it.
07-23-2007, 05:16 AM
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RE: First autos
I think there is a valid world of difference between 1,600 rpm and 2,000+rpm as I guess was done in that video.
My curiosity was caught so I did some searching but so far the only thing I found was the Raptor 50 manual that states 1,700rpm as a max for 600mm woodies.
They also suggest 1,550 rpm as a recommended head speed for beginners when hovering to keep things nice and soft....and a tachometer.
I seem to remember someone saying that glass fiber blades are not readily available in the US - is that correct? Here in Japan, I hardly ever see wood, even on a beginner kit and at the LHS they are all glass or carbon.
If that video was done deliberately, then why not do a tach reading? And if it WAS done deliberately, then those guys are suicidal. Sorry, but I cannot imagine it was deliberate.
Not to hijack the thread, but regarding the tail hub PV0499 thing, I can remember reading something about it being caused by people overtightenening the set screws leading to failures. Is that the same fault you are referring to? Only, I must be one of the "lucky" ones because I ran with the standard hub (correctly tightened) for over a year - maybe 250 flights - and never had a problem. I don't know of anyone at our club running an "Amigo" as they are marketed here with that option part. (7 helis)
Hell, its only Monday......
My curiosity was caught so I did some searching but so far the only thing I found was the Raptor 50 manual that states 1,700rpm as a max for 600mm woodies.
They also suggest 1,550 rpm as a recommended head speed for beginners when hovering to keep things nice and soft....and a tachometer.
I seem to remember someone saying that glass fiber blades are not readily available in the US - is that correct? Here in Japan, I hardly ever see wood, even on a beginner kit and at the LHS they are all glass or carbon.
If that video was done deliberately, then why not do a tach reading? And if it WAS done deliberately, then those guys are suicidal. Sorry, but I cannot imagine it was deliberate.
Not to hijack the thread, but regarding the tail hub PV0499 thing, I can remember reading something about it being caused by people overtightenening the set screws leading to failures. Is that the same fault you are referring to? Only, I must be one of the "lucky" ones because I ran with the standard hub (correctly tightened) for over a year - maybe 250 flights - and never had a problem. I don't know of anyone at our club running an "Amigo" as they are marketed here with that option part. (7 helis)
Hell, its only Monday......
07-23-2007, 01:42 PM
#38
RE: First autos
The tail hub is a weak spot. Over tightening doesnt help, but even if the tail hits the dirt or gets bumped moving the heli in and out of the car, it doesnt take much to shear that grub screw.
P-Diddy, nice job, sure are fun arent they!
I got some stuff on video this weekend, I'll go over the footage and reshoot some stuff next weekend and get started on the text. Nothing on my bench for review right now so this will get some priority time.
P-Diddy, nice job, sure are fun arent they!
I got some stuff on video this weekend, I'll go over the footage and reshoot some stuff next weekend and get started on the text. Nothing on my bench for review right now so this will get some priority time.
07-23-2007, 06:21 PM
#39
RE: First autos
Went out today and did a few more. On the last one, not really sure what happened except that I did hear a boom strike and ruined a brand new set of blades when it touched down.
I guess I'll have to get some carbons now...
I guess I'll have to get some carbons now...
07-26-2007, 09:44 AM
#41
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RE: First autos
Hi P-Diddy,
Sorry been away for a few days, WAY TO GO!
We both seem to be at the same point in the learning curve, I ,err, messed up the 'last one' on Saturday last.
I set her down a bit hard and thought all was OK, but, when I took off the tail control wasn't right and I was luck to get her down before things went pear shapped. On inspection I had clipped the tail rotors and I think the boom had moved forward in the frame as the belt was loose.
I stripped the whole tail hub down but can see nothing amiss, so I have bought new blades and the upgraded tail hub and will fit them today.
Funny how it's always on the last one, isn't it.
That said, I wanna do autos!!!!!
Sorry been away for a few days, WAY TO GO!
We both seem to be at the same point in the learning curve, I ,err, messed up the 'last one' on Saturday last.
I set her down a bit hard and thought all was OK, but, when I took off the tail control wasn't right and I was luck to get her down before things went pear shapped. On inspection I had clipped the tail rotors and I think the boom had moved forward in the frame as the belt was loose.
I stripped the whole tail hub down but can see nothing amiss, so I have bought new blades and the upgraded tail hub and will fit them today.
Funny how it's always on the last one, isn't it.
That said, I wanna do autos!!!!!
07-26-2007, 01:30 PM
#42
RE: First autos
I'm waiting for my crash kit and main blade grip from Advantage Hobby and I bought a set of fiberglass blades from Gohbee. Once they all arrive and I can get a few minutes to put it all together, I'll be headed out to try some more autos...
