sscherin

My Feedback: (1)

My question for the byron prop is solid or hollow?


I can't wait to see how you guys do it..

HVACMAN

My Feedback: (127)

With a blade this large, I would definitely go hollow.Making it solid will also work,but you are only gaining weight.Keeping the blades weight to a minimum without sacrificing strenght is obviously our goal.

Note to everyone following this. Myself and member SCALECRAFT are just about ready to start the mold process. I received a message from a member stating how very dangerous and irresponsible posting this information is.I am responding in the public forum,I ask in the future,(member)you do the same. Rob

dredhea

My Feedback: (13)

The only concern I have with you two posting the technique is that someone with lower quality standards might try to make one and end up getting someone hurt. If they vary in material or technique in the slightest, they can end up with a product that is vastly inferior to what you produce. I personally am looking forward to following along, but I have no intention of ever attempting to make my own props, unless they are for static use only.

dredhea

My Feedback: (13)

BTW, I am NOT the message writer that HVACMAN is referring to.

HVACMAN

My Feedback: (127)

I agree with you 100%this can be very dangerous,andI would never want to see anyone be hurt by something I posted. I take this sport very seriously,and can not or will not be responsible for anyones results.I hope in following this information, common sense and care will be used and taken.last point if the moderators think this is not safe,and think I should not continue,please let me know and I will not even start. SAFTY FIRST![8D]

dredhea

My Feedback: (13)

Many things we do in this hobby can be dangerous if not done correctly. Even removing a glow ignitor from a running engine can be hazardous. I see many people reach over the prop arc to do this, but I teach newcomers to walk around the plane and remove them from behind. The point is; the best way to make a dangeroous situation as safe as can be is to teach it that way. That is what you propose to do, teach the safest way to make a custom prop that may not be available any other way. Many of the people I teach end up copying the "oldtimers" and reaching over the prop arc. Whether people chose to follow the safest method is up to them.

JeffH

My Feedback: (43)

This is not directed to anyone in this thread or otherwise.
As far as safety is concerned, anyone that feels that they cannot produce a safe prop, don't. I am soooo tired of people thinking that they need protect me from myself. Helmet laws, seatbelt laws, club rules dictating that I must have someone stand next to me to fly, blah blah blah. Innovation is not without risk. How many people have crashed full scale airplanes going for different records throughout the history of aviation?
I do not how to make a mold of a prop, some of the gentlemen here do. I would like to learn despite the perceived risk some net nanny spouts off about. Should nobody be taught how to weld a roll cage in a racecar since racing can be dangerous? Should a finished prop from this process be tested by the individual that made his own mold and prop, of course!! Would I hold a soul here responsible for my incompetency if I built a faulty prop, h3ll no!!! Some people(lawyers, politicians, FAA, EPA, etc etc) are hellbent on sucking the creativity, innovation, resourcefulness, and FUN out of everything that FREE Americans participate in.

Luft-Gangster

Ditto JeffH
I would probably attempt to make a prop anyway with the little knowledge I have about making molds. I would rather learn from someone who has been there than to take my best guess at my 1st attempt. I have ideas about how, but would rather have conformation on how. I am going to make one anyway, so why not benefit from experience.
Anything I make will be tested in a controlled enviornment, not at a flying site. And what qualifies me to do my own testing - 31.5 years at GM in Quality/Reliability measuring and testing parts to failure to enable only the best processes and practices to produce parts.
As far as lawyers, I likewhat Robin Williams said in the movie HOOK. " Scientists are using lawyers now instead of lab rats. There's two reasons for that. 1st - the scientists get less attached to them. 2nd - there are some things that even rats won't do."

SCALECRAFT

My Feedback: (13)

I find it a concern when there are options presented for modelers to take advantage of, and someone or something is trying to "protect" the modeler. The responsible modeler knows his own abilities. Well, the FAA doesn't think so. When their awake anyway.

Spinning props are always a concern. They may fail. No matter who makes them. If you are careless they will bite you or whoever.

There are magazine article that show how to make props. Are they irresponsible for sharing this info?? Videos as well?? Its not in Good House Keeping magazine. They are in specific to model aviation magazines.

They are not even as strong as composites.

Imagine a turbine spinning at almost 200,000 rpms, and yet you can get a kit version, such as the Wren 54 and put it together and run it. That's insanity. For some,yes. For some no. I assembled one. It runs perfect. As always, I still stay out of the "line of fire though".

This is not posted on youtube, or some other site where the general public can see and try with no experience in model aviation power systems. This is on a site specific to model aviation that use props.

Composite props are costly. I, for one, always look for ways to make my own parts. Our intention is to share information to responsible modelers. We always use caution and always treat our models as with the utmost in respect. We know they can hurt. They are basically spinning knives.

I have a finger that the tip was bit off by a dog. Should we ban all dogs due to the potential of being bit?? Never know what dogs will do 100% of the time either.

Brushless motors. Armed or not. Not like a nitro engine screaming when running. Should we protect modelers from electrics?? Ban EDF's. 40,000rpm fans. Ever see one of those explode. Now your talking.

Or buy Chinese props. Still use caution

Steve



FAA. They have trouble staying awake.

Steve

sscherin

My Feedback: (1)

I fully understand prop making can be dangerous and props made using the posted methods will be entirely my responsibility.

Any results I produce will be tested on a remote test bench at the flying field plus whatever testing you all recommend.
We have an engine break in bench at the club field positioned well away from the pits and flying area..

It's really sad that people can't share information anymore without fear of litigation.

HVACMAN

My Feedback: (127)

I would like to get a green light from RCU moderator.

Luft-Gangster

HVACMAN -
Sure hope you get the go ahead. Otherwise, I will have to go into this without your knowledge and proven techniques.
If not, no hard feelings, it will just be time for experimentation and testing.
Not to mention, a milion thanks for just the thought of offering to share.

BillyGoat

Here's my take on prop building and safety. Making your own is like scratch building an airplane, it's not cost effective and it's very time consuming. Those individuals that would not take the time to build a good, safe prop won't even tackle the project. It's too easy to simply walk into the nearest hobby shop and have a prop with less money and time.

Even if a guy decides to make one and doesn't take the time to make sure its done right and safe, I don't know how that is different from the guy that continues to fly a prop that was in a crash without inspecting it, only to watch a chunk or a whole blade off fly later? If a guy is going to be irresponsible in the process of making a prop he is just as likely to be irresponsible with a store bought prop. As I see it, calling a prop making thread dangerous and irresponsible is unjustified.

This will be for those of us that like a challenge and want to make a prop because the size we seek is not available or just want the satisfaction of flying a prop made with our own two hands.

[Edited to clarify my position]

Luft-Gangster

?

SCALECRAFT

My Feedback: (13)

Only the individual person can decide what is worth his time. If you take care of business first.

In play time, its nobody's business. This is play time.

Hours on the internet playing make believe people?? Nobody's business.

Steve

sscherin

My Feedback: (1)

I have a quick materials question..

A friend sent me some off cut carbon from a shop he works in..
I have some plain weave 4" wide 3k 12x12 (guess 5-6 oz/yard)
lots of 12k 2x2 twill (heavy) and a big piece of 12k +/- 45° biaxial

Is any of this good for this project? I guess at a minimum I can make all the chopped tow I want for filler..

BillyGoat

Luft-Gangster, You've COMPELTELY misread my post and you obviously did not read the entire thing. Let me refer you to the last sentence.
"This will be for those of us that like a challenge and want to make a prop because the size we seek is not available or just want the satisfaction of flying a prop made with our own two hands." Unless you thought I was being contradictive?

Also let me remind you I'm the poster that asked HVACMAN to do a make your own prop build thread.

If I need to reword my post for you I will do so.

HVACMAN

My Feedback: (127)

Send me a pic of your material,If you are making a copy of the Byron blade Im sure it will work fine, anything smaller ( props)I would stay with lighter weights of cloth.If you plan to use any Kevlar in your lay up, wait for me, if you can. This material is very strong but can give you trouble in the trimming process.These days I am molding my props with straight E glass. Carbon and kevlar are great materials, but are really unnecessary in my opinion. I have had a ground strike with an all glass prop and was able to repair it with thin CA. and sandpaper. (NOT RECOMMENDED just an example) I will try to get started this weekend with the parting boards and prep.work. Anyone building along feel free to contact me if you need any help pm or email is fine [email protected]

Luft-Gangster

=

Luft-Gangster

HVACMAN sent e-mail to hvacmanno1.verison.net. it was rejected???
Looks like necessity becomes the mother of invention. As once what a great greek philosopaher once said: "What can be done is done and what can't be done will bedone."
Looks like the experimentation process will begin.

HVACMAN

My Feedback: (127)

LG try [email protected] with a z not an s talk to you soon. Rob

chip_MG

My Feedback: (14)

Ya know,
I can't stand all of you safety Nannys that respond to a post such as this.

If you affraid of everything that might pose a risk then go back and ask ur mommy if its ok to play with the real Men, cause your not one of them.

Also, this is a hobby. I hate it when guys try to make excusses for being a lazy no skill tard..
I bulid most of my airplanes from scratch because I like having somthing I made. Not some China built sweatshop thing.

AmishWarlord

My Feedback: (5)

Guess I'll just cast some 150,000 RPM bullets and load them over some H110 smokeless powder wile you guy are trying to decide if making your own propeller is safe or not.

sscherin

My Feedback: (1)

When I get home from this business trip I plan to order everything I need to make my molds and layup a few blades.
Another 2 weeks till I get home..

378

My Feedback: (4)

While I do agree with your sentiment, these laws are more to protect the rest of us than they are to protect you. Seatbelt laws in particular, as an unrestrained person flying through a windshield in a rear-end crash could cross into oncoming traffic and cause another crash.