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sanding sealer before covering

Old 08-28-2011, 01:19 AM
  #1  
flowrite
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Default sanding sealer before covering

hi,
im new to this site,
can someone please advise me whether it is best to sanding seal balsa wings and fuselage structures before covering with iron on covering?
i have used a product called balsaloc before but being a water based product it raises the grain and cannot be rubbed down then shows through the covering
your views on this would be very helpful.

thanks ian
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Old 08-28-2011, 03:19 AM
  #2  
Tony Hallo
 
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Default RE: sanding sealer before covering

I used hair spray on my last build, sprayed the wings and fuselageafter220 grit and before 400 grit sanding. Will continue on future builds. I was using Monokote. Try it you'll like it.
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Old 08-28-2011, 03:33 AM
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Default RE: sanding sealer before covering


ORIGINAL: Tony Hallo

I used hair spray on my last build, sprayed the wings and fuselage after 220 grit and before 400 grit sanding. Will continue on future builds. I was using Monokote. Try it you'll like it.
Do I understand you right, you used hair spray than sand and then use your monokote, it that right?
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Old 08-28-2011, 04:16 AM
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Default RE: sanding sealer before covering



I like to use Sig Nitrate dope. Thin it 50/50 with dope thinner and just bush it on. As one old molder said, "It makes the fuzz stand up". Give it a week or two to off gas after that before covering. When the dope smell goes away it's ready.


Study up on dope first if you haven't used it before. The fumes are lethal in a non ventilated area and there is budarate, "spelling?" dope that never stops off gassing and will peel anything you cover it with.


I'm going to do a test with that hair spray idea.

P.S. around the firewall area and tank compartment on glow plains I use 30 min epoxy thinned 50/50 with denatured alcohol to help with fuel proofing.
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Old 08-28-2011, 04:54 AM
  #5  
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Default RE: sanding sealer before covering

Kinda defeats the purpose of using "mono"cote if you have to add a layer of paint before it...

35 years of using Iron on covering i've never seen the need to do anythig but sand and dust it off before the covering goes on.

good luck
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Old 08-28-2011, 06:57 AM
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Default RE: sanding sealer before covering

I agree, just cover.

However, they do make a chemical that you brush on called Balsarite. (sp?)

This adds to the sticking of the plastic film covering.

Also, making thousands of pin holes in the balsa is said to make things easier. They have a tool for that.
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Old 08-28-2011, 08:37 AM
  #7  
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Default RE: sanding sealer before covering

ORIGINAL: Avaiojet

I agree, just cover.

However, they do make a chemical that you brush on called Balsarite. (sp?)

This adds to the sticking of the plastic film covering.

Also, making thousands of pin holes in the balsa is said to make things easier. They have a tool for that.
It's called the "Woodpecker" Tower sells them,, a buddy of mine actually designed and marketed that,, then Great Planes bought the Paten/tooling from him

It works great,, especially for covering over covering
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Old 08-28-2011, 09:00 AM
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Default RE: sanding sealer before covering

On my last cover job, I used mixture of 3 to 1 water and wood glue. Brushed it on the frame and let it dry. This raises the fibers once dry. Will need to sand with super fine grit, then clean with tack cloth. Ready for cover.
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Old 08-28-2011, 09:04 AM
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Default RE: sanding sealer before covering

Hi!
You should not use dope or any paint on a wooden surface prior to cover with plastic films!! That is a strict No No to do so!!
What you can use if you want to spend money is Balsalock or any other product thatof the same kind like Balsarite.
But those products are totally unnecessary!!!!!

Use Oracover or Oratex (same as Solartex) or any other plastic film but please! Do not use dope on the wooden surface ...otherwise you will notice how difficult it will be to fasten the plastic film.
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Old 08-28-2011, 09:06 AM
  #10  
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Default RE: sanding sealer before covering

thanks all for your advice
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Old 08-28-2011, 02:47 PM
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Default RE: sanding sealer before covering


ORIGINAL: scale only 4 me

Kinda defeats the purpose of using ''mono''cote if you have to add a layer of paint before it...

35 years of using Iron on covering i've never seen the need to do anythig but sand and dust it off before the covering goes on.

good luck
[8D]Amen. Couldn't agree more.
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Old 08-28-2011, 05:53 PM
  #12  
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Default RE: sanding sealer before covering

Depends on what covering you are using. Up to about 8 years ago I find that the plastic covering did not stick as well like the 80s and 90s. They come up after a season of hard flying at the edges. I found solortex though to be very good still even with oil splatter. It stays down. I tried the hair spray thing, worked pretty good. Haven`t done much covering for about 6 years now. Paint is where its at for me now.
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Old 08-29-2011, 08:14 PM
  #13  
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Default RE: sanding sealer before covering

I always think it's funny how half a dozen guys can say they've done something, then some other guy shows up and says it can't be done!

To contribute now, I had a model where the wood was really fuzzy and I brushed a very light coat of water based polyurethane on. It raised the grain so I sanded it and tack clothed it, then put on one more light coat. The Ultracote stuck better to that airframe than it had on anything else I had done (only a few planes, but results are results). Sticking down the fuzzies makes for a good covering job and I didn't add more than a couple grams of weight to a .40 size air frame.


ORIGINAL: jaka

Hi!
You should not use dope or any paint on a wooden surface prior to cover with plastic films!! That is a strict No No to do so!!
What you can use if you want to spend money is Balsalock or any other product thatof the same kind like Balsarite.
But those products are totally unnecessary!!!!!

Use Oracover or Oratex (same as Solartex) or any other plastic film but please! Do not use dope on the wooden surface ...otherwise you will notice how difficult it will be to fasten the plastic film.
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Old 08-30-2011, 04:57 AM
  #14  
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Default RE: sanding sealer before covering

There's a book. Harry Higley's "There are No Secrets."

I would suggest, jester_s1, and anyone else for that matter, who uses iron on products, to pick up a copy.

It's a great book for those who elect to use iron on coverings.

Best advice I can offer.

Charles
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Old 08-30-2011, 07:26 AM
  #15  
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Default RE: sanding sealer before covering

You will have a lot less trouble with bubbles and wrinkles if you don't seal the wood underneath the covering. Monokote especially needs to be able to "breathe".
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Old 08-30-2011, 07:33 AM
  #16  
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Default RE: sanding sealer before covering

Hi!
Ofcourse you can paint the eintire wooden surface before yu cover it with plastic film, but if you do you must roughen the surface down otherwise the shiny dope/paint surface will hinder the plastic film to grab.
So why add something that isn't necessary!?
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Old 08-30-2011, 06:34 PM
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Default RE: sanding sealer before covering


ORIGINAL: JCOKEEFE


ORIGINAL: scale only 4 me

Kinda defeats the purpose of using ''mono''cote if you have to add a layer of paint before it...

35 years of using Iron on covering i've never seen the need to do anythig but sand and dust it off before the covering goes on.

good luck
[8D]Amen. Couldn't agree more.
[8D]I forgot to include the use of a tack cloth. This cloth is available from any hardware or paint store. When wiped over the
sanded aircraft, prior to covering, it will remove any remaining dust/dirt.
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Old 08-31-2011, 04:05 AM
  #18  
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Default RE: sanding sealer before covering

ORIGINAL: jester_s1

I always think it's funny how half a dozen guys can say they've done something, then some other guy shows up and says it can't be done!

To contribute now, I had a model where the wood was really fuzzy and I brushed a very light coat of water based polyurethane on. It raised the grain so I sanded it and tack clothed it, then put on one more light coat. The Ultracote stuck better to that airframe than it had on anything else I had done (only a few planes, but results are results). Sticking down the fuzzies makes for a good covering job and I didn't add more than a couple grams of weight to a .40 size air frame.
Different strokes for different folks. If you system works good for you then it's a good system, for you.

If you completely seal the Balsa then you could run into issue where air bubbles get trapped etc.,, I don't think that's what the anyone is alluding too with their recomendations though.

I've just never in all my years had any issues getting the stuff to stick, to wood or to itself. When I sand balsa it ends up smooth as a babies bottom,, not sure what this "fuzzies" issue is all about.

The most important thing is have it 100% dust free,, I use an air compressor with a spray nozzle to blast the dust out of the grain and off everything,, sometimes if it just a small amount of dust I'll use my heat gun one low inside the shop

Good luck
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Old 09-11-2011, 02:00 PM
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Default RE: sanding sealer before covering


ORIGINAL: Avaiojet



Also, making thousands of pin holes in the balsa is said to make things easier. They have a tool for that.

im new to covering... what does adding lots of pin holes do?
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Old 09-11-2011, 02:46 PM
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Default RE: sanding sealer before covering

I keeps air bubbles from forming under plastic covering wile your shrinking the plastic.
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Old 09-12-2011, 09:20 AM
  #21  
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Default RE: sanding sealer before covering

I do the same - use a water diluted , good quality wood glue and paint it on areas where you want the covering material (I prefer using Oratex or Solartex but the plastic films works as well) to stick real well - i.e. around firewall, undersides of fuse (exposed to eaxhaust oil) and wing seats. When the wood glued have dried, it acts as an additional heat activated bonding aid.

Cheers
Bundu
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Old 09-12-2011, 11:37 AM
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Default RE: sanding sealer before covering

SIG, in their instruction manuals, state NOT to seal the wood before covering - specifically fuel proofing the tank bay - because the gases from heating the film will not be able to pass thru the wood resulting in bubbles.
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Old 09-12-2011, 12:12 PM
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Default RE: sanding sealer before covering

LOL @ liteply.
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Old 01-05-2012, 10:28 PM
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Default RE: sanding sealer before covering

Do not use hair spray it has water in it, Rattle can laquer sanding sealer (Lowe's) really works nice and yes your mono or ultra coat will stick alot better. I use it all the time and I would'nt do it any other way. It dries in about ten minutes. sand with 400 and it hardly weighs any thing. Leroy
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Old 01-08-2012, 06:27 PM
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Default RE: sanding sealer before covering


ORIGINAL: Leroy Gardner

Do not use hair spray it has water in it, Rattle can laquer sanding sealer (Lowe's) really works nice and yes your mono or ultra coat will stick alot better. I use it all the time and I would'nt do it any other way. It dries in about ten minutes. sand with 400 and it hardly weighs any thing. Leroy
This was an old trick that was pretty common years ago. The hairspray was a specific brand called Aquanet. It used to be lacquer based and it was cheap. A quick dusting would help reduced the amount of fuzz without totally sealing the wood like sanding sealer. I don't know if Aquanet is sold any more or if it's still lacquer based. I've always been under the impression that products like Balsaloc were brush on adhesives for covering materials like mica film that came with no integrated adhesive. I don't think it will hurt to dust a little on when prepping an airframe I just wouldn't count on it for overcoming any of Monokote's current issues.
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