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  1. #1
    Leroy Gardner's Avatar
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    Easy lines & rivets

    This subject has been discussed several times in several threads, but the question keeps comming up, how do you make pannel lines and rivets ?. I have played around with this myself and hears what I came up with. Scribed lines and rivets how to do.

    The first thing you have to do is prepare the surface and this is important because it will dictate the out come. Prior to the final priming ( asuming it's getting painted ) the surface must be cleaned with a laquer/enamel prep solvent useing micro fiber towels. Just dampen the towel don't soak it and clean it until you don't see any more dust on cloth. As soon as it dries it's ready to primer. I use Dupli-Color laquer but enamel will do also. I let it cure a whole week in heated shop before I do anything else. Get the primer on as uniform as possible, the thickness is what you have to scribe on. You may want to sand it very lightly with 6 to 9 hundred grit paper with 1/4 foam between paper and block. wipe it down ( I use a fine hair round brush on vacume hose to remove most of the dust first ) you'll use the solvent again after detail is put in.

    Tools needed are scribes, carbide straight, ( Lowe's ) and dental picks ( they make the beat scribes ) They are so hard if you try straighten one out it will break off but once it's sharpened it will stay sharp. Go to your dentist, they just throw them away. Rulers, the thinner the better and if they don't have cork backing you can spray them with contact cement and when it dries it's not sticky. Now your rulers won't slide around, we don't want a slip at this time. Styrene clear sheets to make rivet patterns, fuel tank and hatch handels and so on. !/6"and 1/8" brass tube.

    Lay out the pannel lines by very lightly marking with a # 2 pencil, don't mark any interior lines until all pannels are scribed. Fine line between pannels and a little bolder line where hatches are, it gives them more depth. Your not going deeper, just broader, remember, primer thickness is all you have to work with. I should add at this time, you should have made a test pannel finished the same way the plane is preped so you have something to test on and get a feel for it

    Making the rivet guide. Useing the styrene ( sheets are 2-8"X10" and are .030" thick ) cut a strip 3/4" wide and lightly score a line down the middle, 3/8" to center ( your going to need a drill press for next step) Make a jig of sorts to slide the strip down and drill uniform holes the length of strip just off center of scribed mark. When you drill first hole draw a line 3/16-1/4" from center hole in guide/jig and center each drilled hole on that mark all the way down for uniform holes. If center mark is dead on just turn strip around, not over and drill other side useing same mark for perfect aligned rivets. 3/32" bit for 1/4 scale and 5/64" for 1/5 scale. This is Page one See page two.
    Leroy Tiger Club # 53, TF 1/5th P-51 mustang
    Eagle 2 11, bashed Tiger 60, Spacewalker 11 1/4 scale
    P-51 Mustang Brotherhood #28, Sig Brotherhood #12
    If it works for you there is still a wrong way

  2. #2
    Leroy Gardner's Avatar
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    RE: Easy lines & rivets

    Page two:

    Have to start over because I didn't hit post reply, "oh well"'.

    Making rivet tools: Start with a 1/16" brass tube about 2 1/2" long, it will make scale rivets for 1/5 and 1/4 planes. For 1/5 scale the inside diameter will be used. Make sure the end of tube is square and taper the outside about 3/32 long until it reaches the inside diamenter. Use a fine grinding wheel and go slow turning between thumb and forfinger There is probably a burr inside the end of tube, remove it with a Dremel tungston carbide cutter #9909, It can also be used to enlarge cutting size. keep cutting edge sharp for best results. The rivet guide addressed on page one will be drilled with a 1/16" drill bit. The Dremel cutter can be used to de-bur it. I used a Dremel drill press to drill mine and it turned out very nice. I also slid a 1/16" x 1" tube over Cutter and put a drop of CA thin on it to keep it from sliding. Cutter for 1/4 scale is done in the same way but chamfering inside of tube and a guide with 3/32" holes.

    Making the rivets: Lay out pannel lines and scribe them, use a thin ruler. cork or contact cement backed to prevent sliding around, you don't want a slip at this stage. Now rivets: with guide you made align center scribe on pannel line and tape or hold firm and insert tool in a hole and turn tool between thumb and for finger foward and back. Heres where the test pannel comes into play, to help determine the pressure needed to cut the rivet. Remember, you only have the thickness of primer to work with. A faint rivet will show up better than you think. Do all 10 inches and move guide sligning last hole. If it's a big plane plan on spending some time and support the parts so they don't rock or move around. Zouse? fasteners are done the same way useing 1/8" tube.

    The pictures don't look as good as the test piece, some of what you'll see in them is the results of poor preping resulting in poor adhesion of primer in places and the center of rivet lifting out because of it. I never went to the trouble to prep it right because it was just a test piece, well I won't make that mistake on the plane. My plane is a TF gold edition 1/5 scale P-51D kit built. Plane is built but it will probably take longer to detail and finish than it did to build. Now for some picts..

    Don't know why pictures did'nt show? Try again. For some reason picture post can't be found so it's not up loading them. Something wrong here,never had problem before. I'll try again in the morning.
    Leroy Tiger Club # 53, TF 1/5th P-51 mustang
    Eagle 2 11, bashed Tiger 60, Spacewalker 11 1/4 scale
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  3. #3
    Leroy Gardner's Avatar
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    RE: Easy lines & rivets

    I'll try the pictures again. SO where the H- are picts?. "Oh yes"'

    The pictures don't do justice to how they really look but will give you an idea what can be done scribing details. There are tools used, and the paint for this test is Dupli-Color from spray can. I sprayed full wet coats on half of test and 3 fogged coats on other half and it never made any difference to appearance of detail. You can see the size difference of rivets useing the two different cut tube scribes. the sharper the tubes the better they look. I'll fine tune my scribes to get better pannel lines, this is just a test to see what works best. The hinge really looks like a hinge, I was impressed with how real it looked, the fine cut lines are 2/32" apart with segmented cuts every 5/16". Most hatches that open have hinges like gun and ammo bays.

    Styrene sheets are easy to cut with razor sharp blades and drills and make great patterns to scribe with, you can go as far as you want detailing your plane. When it's all done don't forget to wipe it down with prep-sol to remove dust and finger prints prior to paint, and keep your hands clean!.[&o]

    I'll check back from time to time and answer questions. My question is, when you can do this, why would you want to burn them? Leroy[8D]
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    Leroy Tiger Club # 53, TF 1/5th P-51 mustang
    Eagle 2 11, bashed Tiger 60, Spacewalker 11 1/4 scale
    P-51 Mustang Brotherhood #28, Sig Brotherhood #12
    If it works for you there is still a wrong way

  4. #4
    Dash7ATP's Avatar
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    RE: Easy lines & rivets

    Leroy,


    That system certainly seems to give very nice results. I have considered using the scribe several times. In fact,Ihave used it to add a line where Ihad forgotten the 1/64 tape. My only problem with that was either having the guide slip or my tool didn't follow the guide.l AS for your rivits, I'm not sure just using pressure with your cutting tools would do the job on an epoxy primer, which is all I use since I'm still using glow engines.

    If you want to really make you work stand out, give this a try. Go to an artist supply store and get some of the small tubes of acrilic paint they use. It's water based and cheap. For a silver plane, I'd use a dark grey. Other colors just need some contrast. A light grey would probably work best on the reds and blues in the stars and black numbers. Put a dab on a piece of plastic or vinyl and thin it slightly with water. Smear it all over the area you want to weather and let it dry. Then using a dampened towel or paper towel, wipe it off in the direction of the airflow. Some of it will remain in the rivits and panel lines and leave light streaks. Since it is water soluable, you can remove as little or as much as you want.

    Try that on your test panel.

    Dash
    "When you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return."

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  5. #5
    Leroy Gardner's Avatar
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    RE: Easy lines & rivets

    Hi Dash, thanks for reply. Yea, I don't know how this would work on epoxy. it's pretty hard stuff. I use laquer for two reasons, 1 it's the lightest of all paints and 2 you can top coat it with most any paint, well now 3 you can scribe it and get a very realistic look and thats what I want. You might try laquer some time and you won't go back to epoxy, unless your going to do flight-metal over it, thats what they call for. One thing I found out is how fine a scribe showes up, different colors will show differently but the scribe still comes through. Aerosol sprays are the best paints because they are so light and fine whereas heavyer bodied paints will have a more filling effect on fine details and will require a bolder scribe. When I started out I was'nt sure how much painting would effect the scribes so I used both light and heavy pressure cutting scribes and was surprised and pleased at the outcome. Now it's a case of practice makes perfect.

    First pictures I posted I wasnt happy with, they were taken under shop lights so I took another set out side in natural light, shade and sun,"wow" what a difference. Silver is very reflective and details really show up. Like I said this is a test piece just to see how it comes out and now I'm sure I can do a uniform job on the plane. I'm starting to get a little excited about finishing this bird, it's been a long time coming. Hand and shoulder surgery has held this up for nearly two years but all is well now,"thank God". Leroy
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    Leroy Tiger Club # 53, TF 1/5th P-51 mustang
    Eagle 2 11, bashed Tiger 60, Spacewalker 11 1/4 scale
    P-51 Mustang Brotherhood #28, Sig Brotherhood #12
    If it works for you there is still a wrong way

  6. #6
    Leroy Gardner's Avatar
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    RE: Easy lines & rivets

    I carried the rivets a little further to include Ultra coat and Flite Metal, results speak for them selves, Any body do this stuff any more? [] Leroy
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    Leroy Tiger Club # 53, TF 1/5th P-51 mustang
    Eagle 2 11, bashed Tiger 60, Spacewalker 11 1/4 scale
    P-51 Mustang Brotherhood #28, Sig Brotherhood #12
    If it works for you there is still a wrong way

  7. #7
    frets24's Avatar
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    RE: Easy lines & rivets

    Of course there are those of us doing this stuff still!!

    I am quite intrigued with your method and am seriously considering using it on my current CMP Zero bash. I think I'll do the horz stabs and see how I like as compared to my usual chart tape panels.

    Thanks for the time you spent posting the comprehensive instruction guide and the pics of the results in various finishes.
    "The American taxpayer has always been politicaly deceived. It's their Birthright!"
    Lord Mountjoy, 'The Mouse on the Moon'

  8. #8
    Leroy Gardner's Avatar
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    RE: Easy lines & rivets

    Well it's been 2 mo. now and there really don't seam to be much intrest in doing this kind of detail much any more. I thought it might inspire some to try it because it's so easy to do and you don't have to buy expensive tools to do it. Chart tape can be a pain at times just getting the adhesive off after pulling the tape and burning rivets is a challenge also. Anyway I'm into the detail of the mustang full bore now and it's looking impressive to say the least.
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    Leroy Tiger Club # 53, TF 1/5th P-51 mustang
    Eagle 2 11, bashed Tiger 60, Spacewalker 11 1/4 scale
    P-51 Mustang Brotherhood #28, Sig Brotherhood #12
    If it works for you there is still a wrong way

  9. #9

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    RE: Easy lines & rivets

    Thanks Leroy, for the effort you put into this tutorial. I will try this method on my next project.

  10. #10
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    RE: Easy lines & rivets

    56chevy, your going to love the results if you decide to do this.

    The rivets above are made with a 1/16" brass tube sharpened on the inside and when turned in the inside bevel actually raises it a tiny amount. My rivets are not harsh, they are suttle and they will show up without jumping off the surface, other words they look more real than many others I've seen. Perfect for the all out scale guys doing flush rivets. Raised ones are a different matter. One other thing, keep the cutter sharp and make sure the primer coats are stuck to each other to prevent lifting of the centers. the guide holes are also 1/16" and I used the the Dremmel cutter to chamfer one side, it helps to guide the tool into it. I just finished the wing and was surprised (pleased) at how fast it went. Once you get a rythem going they move right along. I'm guessing around 13.000 rivets before its all done, I'll be damned if I'll do all of them, after all it's only a sport scale mustang. It's looking good! Leroy
    Leroy Tiger Club # 53, TF 1/5th P-51 mustang
    Eagle 2 11, bashed Tiger 60, Spacewalker 11 1/4 scale
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  11. #11
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    RE: Easy lines & rivets

    I starting a build of a 20% Zlin 526. I'm inspired by your methods. I was not going to do any rivets or panel lines but may give it a go now. I have to look to see if the Zlin used flush or raised rivets??????


    Ken
    Sent from my Dry-Erase-Board

  12. #12
    Leroy Gardner's Avatar
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    RE: Easy lines & rivets

    Good for you Ken, this is producing the coolest looking detail I hav ever seen. Pannel lines look nice, even by themselves and scribed as I have layed out look better than anything chart tape can produce and with a lot less hassel.
    I have played around with raised rivets also and they are also easy to do if it somes to that. I put a CA applicator tip on the nose of a small bottle of elmers or other aliphatic resin glue and make perfect sized raised rivets. No matter what
    you decide to do rivet wise, the plane will be a stand out.

    I have more info on the prepping that will be helpful should you or others like to do this. Personally I'd like to see more fellas building and doing this this kind of finishing work simply because it sets you apart from everybody else and there is a certain amount of pride involved.
    I say go for it, in the end you'll be glad you did. Good luck Leroy
    Leroy Tiger Club # 53, TF 1/5th P-51 mustang
    Eagle 2 11, bashed Tiger 60, Spacewalker 11 1/4 scale
    P-51 Mustang Brotherhood #28, Sig Brotherhood #12
    If it works for you there is still a wrong way

  13. #13
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    RE: Easy lines & rivets

    If your panel line method is superior to chart pak masking, why isn't everybody doing it ?

    I tried scribing panel lines, 20 years ago. I didn't care for it.
    Tom C

  14. #14
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    RE: Easy lines & rivets

    Tom,

    Would you pleas give us/me the quick and dirty of the cart pak masking you use method. I've never done any real serious scale building. Just the "stand way off scale" of years past.

    Ken
    Sent from my Dry-Erase-Board

  15. #15
    Leroy Gardner's Avatar
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    RE: Easy lines & rivets

    Tom, scribing is a new to you way of detailing as well as a lot of other guys. I have never said it's the only way to get quality lines until I spent over 7 mo. testing and perfecting scribing. I also did the chart tape primer method and found adhesive left after the tape was pulled along with tiny chips along the whole line. Look at the pictures I posted, you will not find any of that in my lines, they are crisp and only .012" wide. I don't care who you are or how long you have been doing this the old fashion way YOU will never produce the quality lines I scribe WITH tape. I can say about the same thing with my flush rivets. This method is worthy of top gun and pro scale builders. Beauty of it is, anyone can learn to do it, even someone who knows it all like you, so until you tried it you really don't have anything to say about it, but being who you are you probably will anyway

    When my mustang is finished (and that won't be long) I 'm not going to have just another mustang, it will be a show piece with a knock out scribed detail finish. Leroy
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  16. #16
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    RE: Easy lines & rivets

    I was just asking why your method was superior, as you said in post #12.

    I tried scribing, and didn't care for it. If it works for you, go for it. There's nothing wrong with the method. I just don't feel that it's "the coolest looking detail that I hav (e) ever seen."

    Ken, I plot out my panel line with pencil. I then lay down the .015 tape. http://www.injectorall.com/draftingtapes.htm I spray primer over the tape, usually 2-3 coats. The tape is removed when the primer gets "tacky." By removing the tape then, no glue adhesive is left behind.

    Leroy, I like your rivet method. It does a nice job on flush rivets.
    Tom C

  17. #17
    Leroy Gardner's Avatar
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    RE: Easy lines & rivets

    "Oh Tom", of course you havent seen scribed lines but you heve seen some scratched lines more than likely. You see a scribe is a cut in line with a special made tool for that purpose, it's not some pointed thing draged along chipping a line as it goes. Tom I read threads with some of your posts in them and one of your most famous sayings is " I tried it but I don't like it, or I do it this way with good results but never show us the results". Kinda makes a guy wonder about credability. Your in a class of your own and I'm in a class of my own, difference is I'm not afraid to show my work and I never comment about things I don't know or havent done.

    Have a good day all, Leroy
    Leroy Tiger Club # 53, TF 1/5th P-51 mustang
    Eagle 2 11, bashed Tiger 60, Spacewalker 11 1/4 scale
    P-51 Mustang Brotherhood #28, Sig Brotherhood #12
    If it works for you there is still a wrong way

  18. #18
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    RE: Easy lines & rivets

    This will be my last pictures of scribed details, fuse. is finished and it's time to paint. I'll do a thread on finishing after it's painted then the results will really show. Pictures just don't show as well as they do to the naked eye. Leroy
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    Leroy Tiger Club # 53, TF 1/5th P-51 mustang
    Eagle 2 11, bashed Tiger 60, Spacewalker 11 1/4 scale
    P-51 Mustang Brotherhood #28, Sig Brotherhood #12
    If it works for you there is still a wrong way

  19. #19

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    RE: Easy lines & rivets

    I've been following your thread with great interest......I like to do detail work too....I'm more of a builder than flier.

  20. #20
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    RE: Easy lines & rivets


    ORIGINAL: sebo

    I've been following your thread with great interest......I like to do detail work too....I'm more of a builder than flier.
    Sebo I plan on doing a painting and finishing thread in the not too distant future, I'm not sure where to put it and with all the picture posting problems and time outs' server problems I've had it could turn out to be a pain in the butt. It will be at RCG for sure they don't have problems there.

    Stay tuned I'll let viewers know where to see it come together. Leroy
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  21. #21

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    RE: Easy lines & rivets

    I'll be looking for it.
    I don't have problems posting on RCU.
    I have a Lancair build thread going and I have completed a Bud Nosen Aeronca build thread too.
    Never have had any problems.
    I never quick post....I always reply....maybe that's the secret of it all.
    Ron

  22. #22
    Leroy Gardner's Avatar
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    RE: Easy lines & rivets


    ORIGINAL: sebo

    I'llÂ* be looking for it.
    I don't have problems posting on RCU.
    I have a Lancair build thread going and I have completed a Bud Nosen Aeronca build thread too.
    Never have had any problems.
    I never quick post....I always reply....maybe that's the secret of it all.
    Ron

    Ok Ron, maybe you can help if you know if Hi Def. pictures over load the server if you try to post more than 2. My camera is a 12.1 mega pixle and I can't resize. Pictures from my 3.1 camera don't cause many problems but I don't use it that much any more.

    Thanks, Leroy
    Leroy Tiger Club # 53, TF 1/5th P-51 mustang
    Eagle 2 11, bashed Tiger 60, Spacewalker 11 1/4 scale
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    If it works for you there is still a wrong way

  23. #23

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    RE: Easy lines & rivets

    Sorry, I'm no help to you there...
    Have you tried puting 2 pics on then coming back and edit the post puting adding 2 more pics to the one that already has two on it?
    My camera is a cheap one.. probably doesn't have the pixels you have. I don't think I am HI DEF.
    I'm just fat, dumb and happy that it works!

  24. #24
    Leroy Gardner's Avatar
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    RE: Easy lines & rivets

    Right around the end of the month, May, I will start a thread called An Awsum Finish in Fuel Warbirds at RCG, it will be about painting and finishing my plane. I may try to do the same thing on RCU, but if there are problems like so many have and I have had I will scrap it.

    Lerpy
    Leroy Tiger Club # 53, TF 1/5th P-51 mustang
    Eagle 2 11, bashed Tiger 60, Spacewalker 11 1/4 scale
    P-51 Mustang Brotherhood #28, Sig Brotherhood #12
    If it works for you there is still a wrong way

  25. #25
    Leroy Gardner's Avatar
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    RE: Easy lines & rivets

    OK, one more of finished wing rivets and lines, every thing turned out great, Leroy
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    Leroy Tiger Club # 53, TF 1/5th P-51 mustang
    Eagle 2 11, bashed Tiger 60, Spacewalker 11 1/4 scale
    P-51 Mustang Brotherhood #28, Sig Brotherhood #12
    If it works for you there is still a wrong way


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