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anyone put Ultracote over Ultracote.

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Old 01-16-2012, 09:33 AM
  #1
skeeter_ca
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Default anyone put Ultracote over Ultracote.

How well does Ultracote go over Ultracote. Like if you cut out some trim panels and place it on top of ultracoat. How do you make sure it doesn't shrink or distort before it is total sealed down? How do you prevent bubbles from forming?

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Old 01-16-2012, 10:29 AM
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Default RE: anyone put Ultracote over Ultracote.

My method for applying Ultracote over Ultracote is to first position the trim strip in place using a soft cloth to remove most all trapped air, and then apply a low heat iron working slowly from one end to the other for narrow pieces, and for larger pieces from the middle out to the edges. After it is all down satisfactorily then more heat can be applied for a permanent bond.

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Old 01-16-2012, 10:41 AM
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Default RE: anyone put Ultracote over Ultracote.

Good tip karol.

Ultracote trim clings to Ultracote better than to wood.

Be cautious about having very narrow, pointed tips on the trim. Some use a drop of CA to ensure that they don't come up. Some use clear finger nail polish. Some use a piece of lite clear Ultracote.

A trim iron set on low is sufficient to activate the adhesive.

Heaven forbid should you get a bubble - I use a new #11 X-Acto blade to slide into the side of the bubble and then push the air out with an iron working the air towards the slit.

Work with a good back light behind the iron so that you can see any forming bubbles in the light's reflection.

Get creative and show us your work!

Question for karol - do you find it easier or harder to apply trim when you are adding the trim over a sheeted surface as compared to an unsupported surface (e. g. between rib cap strips)?

MinnFlyer has had success using Xlene to activate Ultracote's adhesive rather than using heat. It's similar but different to using Windex with Monokote as it activates the adhesive RIGHTNOW and you will have no chance to move it once initially positioned.



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Old 01-16-2012, 10:59 AM
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Default RE: anyone put Ultracote over Ultracote.

For some strange and unexplained reason, I find that adding trim pieces on unsupported areas like unsheeted wing bays seem easiest to do without getting bubbles, however using Monokote trims over Ultracote with Windex gives the best results.

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Old 01-16-2012, 11:14 AM
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Default RE: anyone put Ultracote over Ultracote.

Karol - I've had the very same experiences when trimming over supported / unsupported film.

I think that it's because the angle of the iron's bottom relative to the film is critical to getting a bubble'less surface.  On sheeted surfaces - you only have one angle to hold the iron. On unsupported surfaces the film gives and the angle is then more easily maintained.

I use a Century 21 iron. The bottom is not flat from side to side - the edges roll up a bit to rounded edges. The nose flares up more than other irons. I have other irons that are flat side to side with minimal nose up attitude but have not used them. What type of iron do you use?

I think that this is on topic as it may well be "all about the tools".

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Old 01-16-2012, 12:20 PM
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Default RE: anyone put Ultracote over Ultracote.

Hi!
Works just fine!
Bubbles are a problem! But if you use low heat (iron of course) and are careful ...it works!
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Old 01-16-2012, 12:39 PM
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Default RE: anyone put Ultracote over Ultracote.

Being in need of a new iron I purely by chance bought myself a Century 21st iron and am very happy with it, and can attest to it being the best one I have used to date. I especially like the curled up shoe edges which seems to push the air ahead of it and not allowing it to be so easily trapped when putting one covering on top of another.

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Old 01-16-2012, 05:10 PM
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Default RE: anyone put Ultracote over Ultracote.

Skeeter, I posted the exact same question a few months back. I wanted to stripe the bottom of the wing on my Yak. Having practically no experience in covering application I was concerned I'd end up with a lot of air bubbles and an overall amateur looking job, but it was easier than I expected. I just did as these helpful folks instructed and it really turned out looking like a (near) professional job. Patience helps.

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Old 01-16-2012, 07:11 PM
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Default RE: anyone put Ultracote over Ultracote.

I use the woodpecker over previously covered sheeted surfaces..... no bubbles just as if putting it down over wood. Bubbles are gotten by trapping air and or not ironing down completely so just be sure to iron down fully being sure to not trap any air (a glove works great for this) r..... leave an exit for it. It's not that difficult if you think about that way.
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Old 01-16-2012, 07:13 PM
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Default RE: anyone put Ultracote over Ultracote.

oops
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Old 01-16-2012, 08:47 PM
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Default RE: anyone put Ultracote over Ultracote.


Quote:
ORIGINAL: KitBuilder

oops
Iresemble that remark.

Can you please provide a picture of a woodpecker? Legit - really - not sure what they look like.

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Old 01-17-2012, 05:08 AM
  #12
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Default RE: anyone put Ultracote over Ultracote.

Tried to find a picture of one but was unsuccessful. The woodpecker's been around for quite awhile, and it's a small hand held wheel with with numerous little needle sharp metal spines, which as you roll over balsa sheeted areas to be covered makes little holes in the balsa through which the hot air escapes instead of getting trapped and forming bubbles under the covering. Reminds me of a porcupine on wheels

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Old 01-17-2012, 08:51 AM
  #13
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Default RE: anyone put Ultracote over Ultracote.

This?

It's available from Tower Hobbies for $15 US
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Old 01-17-2012, 12:16 PM
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Default RE: anyone put Ultracote over Ultracote.

That's the sucker

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Old 01-17-2012, 12:24 PM
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Default RE: anyone put Ultracote over Ultracote.

I bleed way too easily to have THAT thing within 10 feet! Do you penetrate thru the sheeting or just "dent" the surface?
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Old 01-17-2012, 12:50 PM
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Default RE: anyone put Ultracote over Ultracote.

That's a dangerous critter, and it goes right throught the sheeting like a hot knife thro butter.

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Old 01-17-2012, 12:54 PM
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Default RE: anyone put Ultracote over Ultracote.

Funny that I stumbled on this thread. I just completed recovering the bottom of the wings on my giant scale for visibility with UC over UC. I got through it but it wasn't a walk in the park. I tried using the lowest heat setting I could but still had problems with bubbles. The overlays I was doing were large so this likely contributed, not to mention this was the 1st time I did this with Ultracoat. The completed job looked good but I spent some time popping bubbles with a needle. If I had it to do over again I think I'd try a wood pecker.
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Old 01-17-2012, 01:00 PM
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Default RE: anyone put Ultracote over Ultracote.

My LT-40 is all Ultracote over Ultracote. It's a very good "5 footer" but it won't win any covering trophies. I did a covering only thread on it recently.

The windows are chrome Ultracote. Not a bad look.

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Old 01-19-2012, 08:51 AM
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Default RE: anyone put Ultracote over Ultracote.

I use the Windex process when putting Ultracote over Ultracote too, works well but still takes time and patience to keep the air bubbles to a minimum.
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Old 01-19-2012, 09:04 AM
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Default RE: anyone put Ultracote over Ultracote.

Em - How come you're the only person on RCU to say that the Windex method works for Ultracote?

Soooo - I'm doing a test.

Test subject:Bottom of my 4Star60 wing - covered in Ultracote pearl blue. Ihave both Ultracote black and Monokote black. I have both blue Windex and clear vinegar Windex. Ihave 4 individual butter containers. Each is filled with 1/4" of Windex. Each has 6 pieces of film. That leaves Ultracote / vinegar, Ultracote / blue, Monokote / vinegar and Monokote / blue.

The wing bottom was cleaned several times with paper towels and 90% alcohol.

A sample from each container is placed on the wing bottom - very wet and sloppy application. Asoft piece of cloth is used to squeegee out any and all bubbles from under the film. Several hours later - both pieces of Ultracote have curled up with plenty of air voids underneath the pieces. Both of the Monokote are nice and tight to the Ultracote base covering.

pic 1/2 - ultracote over ultracote
pic 3/4 - monokote over ultracote

It's kinda hard to see - if I were to blow across the Ultra over Ultra the pieces will blow away - not so with the Monokote.

It's hard to say but maybe we need to have an inventory of Monokote for use as trim (which has been suggested a ton of times).

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Old 01-19-2012, 07:16 PM
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Default RE: anyone put Ultracote over Ultracote.

pic 1 - what happens when ya blow across Ultracote with Windex

pic 2 - interesting - you can easily spot the Monokote pieces - all pieces were soaking in Windex for 6 hours. The Monokote remained flat. The Ultracote curled up into little rolls - not condusive to staying anywhere NEARthe base film surface.
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Old 01-22-2012, 04:13 AM
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Default RE: anyone put Ultracote over Ultracote.

The Windex method will work with Ultracote over Ultracote but after you squeegee out the Windex heat must be applied to adhere them together. As mentioned above it takes time and patience to do this task. But, you know what, if Monokote over Ultracote is the better alternative, i am all for it.
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Old 02-01-2012, 07:01 PM
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Default RE: anyone put Ultracote over Ultracote.

Whats nice about the pecker is yoiu can remove wheels as needed to get into narrow places but thats to detailed for me.. I just use it with all wheels in place. And yes it is SHARP. The tines just seem to slice into the balsa..not liftout of fibers, etc. as you roll it along.
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Old 02-13-2012, 01:43 PM
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Default RE: anyone put Ultracote over Ultracote.

Monocoat over Ultracoat: I tried this once. Initially the job looked great, but in time the U/C started to sag and the monocoat didn't, it created wrinkles everywhere the overlays were. I tried to clean it up by reshrinking but there was no fixing it. It ended up a pretty disappointing mess. This might work for some but mine didn't turn out well.
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Old 02-13-2012, 04:15 PM
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Default RE: anyone put Ultracote over Ultracote.

I also use the wood pecker tool. I cut out my trim pieces and lay them where they are going to go. I will pencil lines around my trim and get the wood pecker out. I run the wood pecker over all the covering that is going to be covered with my pattern and then apply it with low heat. It does work really well as the air has places to go as you slide your iron accross the trim piece. Good Luck, Dave
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