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First bipe

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Old 12-01-2012, 08:05 AM
  #1
fly20
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Default First bipe

I just finished my first biplane build. A BUSA 1/6th pup. The build itself was very enjoyable [aren't they all]. My auw including batteries [it's electric] is just under 6lbs and gives me just under a 100 watts per pound [more than enough I'm guessing]. Anyway I've flown numerous small electrics and a telemaster 40 and have gotten pretty confident with my 4*40 but have never flown a biplane. Any thing bipe specific that I should set up /watch for? Thanks for the help. Gary
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Old 12-01-2012, 08:25 AM
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Default RE: First bipe

I love to fly my bipe but it did take some getting used to. Best thing would be to fly in very calm conditions until you get the hang of it. Take off and land into the wind as cross winds are a challange, land with power on and until it stops. I have found that too much rudder on the ground will get you in trouble and will result in a nose - over or worse. I fly off pavement so a nose over can bend the motor mount and need to check that consistantly - I found out the hard way a few weeks ago.

Harry
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Old 12-02-2012, 08:28 AM
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Default RE: First bipe

"Any thing bipe specific that I should set up /watch for? "

YES. Your bipe is NOT going to float the way you are used to. Bipes are way draggy, and will have a tendency to drop as soon as you cut the power. You would like to FLY them to the ground, then cut the throttle.

Les
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Old 12-02-2012, 09:26 AM
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Default RE: First bipe

More of the same here. I have a Waco, Stearman, Ultimate, and all of them do not like to land slow. Generally 4-6 clicks of throttle trim does real well. Once the wheels are on the ground I bring the clicks back down. Of course I don't use that method anymore since getting a feel for it. The only other attribute I have found is useing rudder really helps in turns. For me without rudder the tail seemed like it wanted to loop around. Kinda slide outward away from the turn.
Good luck.
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Old 12-02-2012, 10:52 AM
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Default RE: First bipe


Quote:
ORIGINAL: acerc

More of the same here. I have a Waco, Stearman, Ultimate, and all of them do not like to land slow. Generally4-6 clicks of throttle trim does real well. Once the wheels are on the ground I bring the clicks back down. Of course I don't use that method anymore since getting a feel for it. The only other attribute I have found is useing rudder really helps in turns. For me without rudder the tail seemed like it wanted to loop around. Kinda slide outward away from the turn.
Good luck.
Most of this sounds like trimming issues. Yes a bipe is draggy and will require some power on final but have more wing area then a mono so should slow down nicely. The rudder in the turns thing is most likely an adverse yaw caused by a lack of aileron differential.

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Old 12-02-2012, 11:19 AM
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Default RE: First bipe

Not so much being able to slow a bipe down, but once on the ground is when you need keep up the power allowing sufficient airflow across the elevator and rudder. At least that is what I have learned.

Harry
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Old 12-02-2012, 11:35 AM
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Default RE: First bipe


Quote:
ORIGINAL: flyallday

Not so much being able to slow a bipe down, but once on the ground is when you need keep up the power allowing sufficient airflow across the elevator and rudder. At least that is what I have learned.

Harry

I can see where this may be helpful on a WW1 airplane where the gear is narrow and a little bit aft but on what I would call a " normal " bipe it really should not be any different then flying a mono. Landing fast is usually caused by having the CG too far forward.

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Old 12-02-2012, 11:39 AM
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Default RE: First bipe

Yep, you have a point and I was referring to WWl aircraft. I have no experience with a "normal" bipe.

Harry
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Old 12-02-2012, 11:51 AM
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Default RE: First bipe

Assuming a properly balanced and trimmed plane, the biggest thing is managing your momentum. The plane will slow down in a glide much faster than you are used to, so stalls come on quite suddenly. You have to really have your eyes on the plane and know how to recognize a stall coming on so you can be ready with the throttle. If you want to prepare, take the 4 star and practice doing landings at maybe 1/4 throttle, keeping the plane fast enough that you could just pull it back up if you wanted to.
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Old 12-02-2012, 12:29 PM
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Default RE: First bipe

Speedracer, I was giving advice to a beginner, at least that's how his post reads. If you want to give him lessons on aileron differential, adverse yaw, climb and descent in relation to throttle, adverse torque on power up, etc.etc.etc. be my guest. My post was based on a beginner's perspective. You and I know quite well all those parameter's and what to do with them, he may not yet. I'll be waiting for your book.
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Old 12-02-2012, 12:36 PM
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Default RE: First bipe


Quote:
ORIGINAL: acerc

Speedracer, I was giving advice to a beginner, at least that's how his post reads. If you want to give him lessons on aileron differential, adverse yaw, climb and descent in relation to throttle, adverse torque on power up, etc.etc.etc. be my guest. My post was based on a beginner's perspective. You and I know quite well all those parameter's and what to do with them, he may not yet. I'll be waiting for your book.

I was commenting on the characteristics described by you about your airplanes in an effort to assist you. I guess no good deed goes unpunished.

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Old 12-02-2012, 12:45 PM
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Default RE: First bipe



My apoligies speedracer. I misunderstood your meaning. And thank's for the attempted advice. I usually welcome all the advice I can get.
Those were problem's I had years ago and good advice from people like yourself helped me thru it.

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Old 12-02-2012, 01:28 PM
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Default RE: First bipe

Thanks for all the advice.
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Old 12-02-2012, 01:30 PM
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Default RE: First bipe

No worries. I remember when I started flying, getting trimming information was very difficult. Now with these forums I like to share what Ihave learned after 35 years of R/C. I still do learn as well.
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Old 12-02-2012, 01:43 PM
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Default RE: First bipe

fly20- here is the best advice you will get. Find someone local that is capable and let them teach you the intricacies of set up. A club would be a good place to find such a person.
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Old 12-02-2012, 02:35 PM
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Default RE: First bipe

Once again person came to right place for advice!
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Old 12-02-2012, 03:07 PM
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Default RE: First bipe

I don't want to hijack this thread, but can anybody recommend a nice bipe for a 70 FS ?
It should be small enough to fit in a Trailblazer or should be easy to set up at the field quickly...
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Old 12-02-2012, 03:26 PM
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Default RE: First bipe



I had one in a Great Planes Super Skybolt. It was sweet.

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Old 12-02-2012, 05:13 PM
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Default RE: First bipe

The Sig Hog Bipe is good for a 70 FS, plus you can bash it to look like most anything.
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Old 12-02-2012, 06:21 PM
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Default RE: First bipe

You can't beat the great planes super skybolt. It flies great,is very stable and lands like a butterfly with sore feet.
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Old 12-02-2012, 07:42 PM
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Default RE: First bipe

Great Planes Ultimate Bipe 40 for a 70 four stroke. Mine has a Saito 72. Very nice combination. It fits in the back of my Forester assembled.
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Old 12-02-2012, 08:21 PM
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Default RE: First bipe

Great info on off topic here.. but how does this help the OP? Start another thread.

Harry
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Old 12-02-2012, 09:50 PM
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Default RE: First bipe

Probably the most important set up condition you should follow is wing incidence. Check it then check it again. Usually the top wing is set with a slight negative incidence to the lower wing but, whatever the plans say, is what to follow(let's NOT open that can!). Get it wrong and things can really get screwed up. Keep your speed up as everyone suggests on approach. It's also been my experience that MOST bipes like rudder or at least respond more to rudder input. Last, and this could just be my perception, but a bipe seems to have a slightly faster response to control input than a monoplane. Once it's initiated everything seems the same but that initial movement always seems quicker to me. AND alwaysremember, REAL AIRPLANES HAVE ROUND ENGINES AND TWO WINGS!!
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Old 12-03-2012, 03:47 AM
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Default RE: First bipe

I agree with wing incidence - especially the difference between the two wings.  I just finished my second bipe and it has ailerons on both wings where my first one didn't.  I am kind of anxious to see what happens there.

Note that the tail moment on a bipe is very short making the elevator and rudder very quick to respond.  Ground loops are quite common as is takeoff pulling to the left.  I found getting the tail up quickly was very important to get better control.  And that is also a reason to land faster than a monoplane.
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Old 12-03-2012, 04:57 AM
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Default RE: First bipe

All good advice in these posts. Even though a bipe has more wing area, they do require more power on the landing approach to keep the airspeed up. You need to fly a bipe in. Hold about a quarter throttle, and when you are over the threshold and a couple of feet off the ground cut the power and it should settle nicely.
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