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Practice techniques for rudder

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Old 02-25-2008, 02:13 PM
  #1  
twn
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Default Practice techniques for rudder

Can some of you more advanced flyers thow in some tips & excersies to increase quality rudder use? Please even simple exersices. I really need to be able to separate the 2 sticks and it is not easy.

I have been flying for about a year. I try to fly 3-7 days a week. I also fly with my G3.5 & G4 simulater constantly every day. I am very confidant with my Kadet MK2 with 50-60 flights on it so far. And well over 300 flights on my Kadet ep (which unfortunately got stepped on, go figure [>:] [&o])

I need to learn rudder.
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Old 02-25-2008, 02:38 PM
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Flyboy Dave
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Default RE: Practice techniques for rudder

....no one can "tell " you how to use rudder. You must experiment for yourself. Different
planes act quite different to rudder. For instance a plane with alot of dihedral reacts very
fast to rudder inputs, whereas a plane with no dihedral doesn't do much when rudder is
applied. Keep in mind that real airplanes use rudder and ailerons both to make a smooth
"co-ordinated " turn.

FBD.
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Old 02-25-2008, 03:20 PM
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Default RE: Practice techniques for rudder

While no one would call me advanced after seeing my flying I have gotten a feel for rudder gradually over time. Your Kadet MkII in standard form has a great deal of dihedral in the wing and banks nicely to rudder inputs as Dave mentioned. In fact I think the design spawned from a rudder-only (3 channel) design called the Kadet Senior if memory serves. You might try making some turns with only the rudder and elevator. After mastering an oval, work on figure 8's. Knowing your rudder will help if you ever lose your ailerons or set them up reversed accidentally and need to get down FAST. I've saved two planes from imminent destruction over the years because I could switch to rudder without hesitation.
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Old 02-25-2008, 03:26 PM
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dr_wogz
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Default RE: Practice techniques for rudder

I was told to try and do circuits with rudder only. Well, rudder & elevator only.. that is, do your best not to touch the ailerons!

I do try. But I always seem to add the wrong direction of rudder!!

I'm also tryign to add in a bit of 'oppocite' rudder to the ailerons [banking] to keep the nose up in a turn...

And, I'm also tryign to learn 'crabbing'. That is, to fly down the runway in a crosswind. It starts with a hi, medium pass, with rudder & touch of aileron to correct for wind, then slowly lower it into a low pass.

Try the hammerhead turn. (I beleive it's that!) Fly level, then pull up vertical (Rudder & elevator to keep a vertial tragectory) with medium trottle. When the airspeed bleeds off, throttle back to a stall. Then, pin the rudder to one side, and gun the trhottle. the plane should pivot & pull a 180° turn. Gradually lessen the vertical, untill you're doing 'hi banked tail sliding' turns

Used to do it all the time with my trainer, and am starting to do the again with my 4Star 60...
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Old 02-25-2008, 04:07 PM
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Default RE: Practice techniques for rudder

Buy a helicopter
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Old 02-25-2008, 04:26 PM
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yojoelay
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Default RE: Practice techniques for rudder

twn,

I'm in the same situation as you.

One of the pros at my field showed me how to fly circuits using rudder only on my trainer. Use the rudder to get the plane turning, then hold the turn with the elevator and use opposite aileron to level out.

Good luck,

Joel
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Old 02-25-2008, 04:58 PM
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Default RE: Practice techniques for rudder

I am supprised no one has mentioned flat turns, or simply crabbing (flying somewhat sideways- good for crosswinds).... These are very easy, level flight maneuvers.
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Old 02-25-2008, 05:10 PM
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Default RE: Practice techniques for rudder

Crosswind landings and touch-n-go ., from each direction help me with the rudder a lot .
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Old 02-25-2008, 06:06 PM
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tail strike
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Default RE: Practice techniques for rudder


All airplanes are real, just some are larger than others [8D]

ORIGINAL: Flyboy Dave

Keep in mind that real airplanes use rudder and ailerons both to make a smooth
"co-ordinated " turn.

FBD.
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Old 02-25-2008, 09:20 PM
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Default RE: Practice techniques for rudder

Buy a Cub [8D]
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Old 02-25-2008, 09:28 PM
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Default RE: Practice techniques for rudder


ORIGINAL: CrateCruncher

Your Kadet MkII in standard form has a great deal of dihedral in the wing and banks nicely to rudder inputs ......You might try making some turns with only the rudder and elevator.
This is a good way especially with the Mk II (it was my 1st plane). Get to a good altitude (3 or 4 mistakes high) and just use the rudder to make your turns. You will quickly notice that the plane will dive as it turns (called pitch coupling). Counter this with just enough elevator to maintain altitude. Focus on using the left stick, and only use the right one to make corrections. As a new pilot, I got used to not messing with the throttle much and also forgot about the rudder as a result. Make yourself more conscious of your left hand (another natural tendency of predominately right-handed people is to use the dominant hand more). Make more throttle changes and just see-saw on the rudder too. You can get to the point where you can trim your elevator so you can take off, fly the pattern and land without even using the right stick (wouldn't try it just yet) Throttle = up/down, rudder = right/left. just use the right stick to bail yourself out of trouble.

I gotta build another Mk II, it was a fun plane. Mine got eaten by a G-26 and 18" prop on a 1/4 scale J-3.
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Old 02-26-2008, 12:17 AM
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Default RE: Practice techniques for rudder

we don't get much crosswind at our field, so that option was out for me. I started using my rudder doing flat turns as well as show passes over the runway. Doing the show passes will eventually lead into doing knife edge passes. You can also do some hammer head stalls, vertical lines, hovering.

A buddy of mine got me into doing the IMAC Basic sequence as practice a couple of weeks ago. The pattern gives you something to work toward trying to keep within the box. Even though only the last maneuver requires rudder, keeping the plane in the box requires lots of rudder. It has really helped me hone my rudder skills...
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Old 02-26-2008, 08:37 AM
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Default RE: Practice techniques for rudder

Depends on what type of flying you want to do. For me, I would practice slow rolls that would span more than the entire length of the field-there is a difference though as anyone can somewhat do a slow roll. The idea is to not loose/gain any altitude throughout the entire maneuver. Flying knife edge circuits canopy and belly in helped alot as well. I like to fly several kife figure 8's belly in and then switch to canopy in to practice. Doing a ONE roll rolling circle will help tremendously as well and then there is the rolling circle and rolling harrier of course. Inverted harriers will learn you the rudder, after that, its automatic.
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Old 02-26-2008, 11:47 AM
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Default RE: Practice techniques for rudder

I love to slow the plane down for landing with a side slip. This is where you can loose alt and bleed off speed by inputting rudder and holding the bank with opposite aileron. Maintain the pitch attitude with elevator and descent with throttle. A good WWI maneuver that can still impress if properly done.
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Old 02-28-2008, 08:09 PM
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CK1
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Default RE: Practice techniques for rudder

I would suggest flying figure eights with mostly rudder, adding just enough aileron to counter any adverse yaw (depends on wing type!)and or maintain a fairly flat turn.
Once you are fairly comfortable with a left to right flight pattern try changing directions and fly from right to left. After you have mastered both directions and can
switch directions at will (REMEMBER RUDDER ONLY) Roll to inverted and start all over . After you have mastered these you will be very comfortible with rudder.
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Old 02-29-2008, 07:40 AM
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Default RE: Practice techniques for rudder

Get a cub. Practice taking off in a straight line, do coordinated turns, practice one wheel touch and goes, cross wind landings. You will need the rudder for almost everything you do when flying a cub.
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Old 03-02-2008, 10:17 AM
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Default RE: Practice techniques for rudder

Build and fly a PBF, you'll learn quickly or else !!
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Old 03-08-2008, 08:59 AM
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Default RE: Practice techniques for rudder

I found the easiest way to get automatic with the rudder is to make all banked turns with coordinted rudder and aileron. Bank right, for instance with right aileron, and then use slight left rudder. You'll notice that your turn does not require as much up elevator because the rudder is acting somewhat as an elevator. Left aileron, right rudder. Right aileron, left rudder. These will become automatic if you use it on every turn. This is important because all point rolls, knife edge and slow as well as high rate alpha rolls all are the same inputs. Opposite rudder and aileron. Practice it on the Sim and then on your plane. Just a little bit of the left hand on every turn.
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Old 03-08-2008, 10:00 AM
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Default RE: Practice techniques for rudder

Fly this on a windy day... find a pilot that can critique you while flying... all lines must be straight and level and must be wind corrected....
http://www.mini-iac.com/Portals/57ad...2008_Basic.pdf


and an earlier post by Barracuda is true as well... learn to fly a heli....
Starting to fly IMAC and flying a heli did more for my rudder than anything else.....
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