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Futabas new 2.4 10C and JR's 2.4 9303 - 3/18/2008 5:50 AM   
Paul Cataldo


 

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Gentlemen,
I would like to ask you guys about a purchase I'm soon going to have to make, and I need some help.
I've always been a Futaba 9C guy, and I've been out of the hobby for 4 years. SO, I'm wanting to get into 2.4 for my Giant Scale planes, and I am not too sure IF I can wait for the Futaba 2.4 10C to come out.
SO, I'm doing something I swore I'd never do! GASP!
I'm actually considering going with a JR 2.4 9303.

SO, I'm going to keep this short and simple as possible.

1. Are there any major differences between these two radios? I mean, does one have considerably more (or better) functions/features than the other?
I know this is a broad generalized statment, but can anyone help me understand the main differences between these two radios, because after all my reading, I'm still not totally sure???

2. Is there any threads you know of, which I may have missed, that might possibly discuss this issue in plain english??

Thanks so much for any help guys. Boy how I wish the Futaba 12FGA or even the JR 12X was affordable. (or even better yet, a 2.4 14MZ!) I'd buy up one of those radios in a second. They just ARE NOT worth $1500-$2000, and I simply cannot believe ANYONE would drop that kind of money on a transmitter. (regardless of their financial situation). Must be nice I guess.. LOL.

Thanks for any help, really guys

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RE: Futabas new 2.4 10C and JR's 2.4 9303 - 3/18/2008 5:56 AM   
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Have you downloaded manuals and spec sheets to compare them carefully?

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RE: Futabas new 2.4 10C and JR's 2.4 9303 - 3/18/2008 6:02 AM   
Paul Cataldo


 

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Um, no, my old PC cannot handle much downloading, although it MIGHT be possible.
The biggest obstacle I have to overcome, is there are many terms and phrases/feature descriptions that I do not even understand fully, and it always helps to have the help of others who can generously take a minute to explain things in plain english to those of us in this predicament.
I can grasp much of it, but it's a TOTAL help when others can chime in with a helping hand, and explain things a little more clearly.
I'm basically just looking to get the general consensus of WHICH has the most features, or WHICH features are present on the Futaba, that might not be present on the JR (and vice versa).
You see what I mean. I'm not asking for anyone to list a thousand features of each radio. I'm just looking to find any considerable differences, which might lead someone to choose one over the other (IF you were to take the "brand war" out of it).
Let's just kind of act like we are assuming that BOTH radios are made by Futaba, and BOTH cost the same amount of money. (hypothetically, for arguments sake)
What THEN are the differences that would choose someone to purchase one over the other??
Thank you bruce,
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RE: Futabas new 2.4 10C and JR's 2.4 9303 - 3/18/2008 7:31 AM   
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I bought the 12FG, very similar to the 10C, but more features. I considered the 9303 a nice radio for half the price of the 12FG.

REASONS I WENT WITH FUTABA:

1. I was moving up from a 9C and the programming is very similar.

2. I like the digital trim on the throttle, JR doesn't have it.

3. Futaba has the idle down and throttle cut features that are very simple to set up as compared to JR.

4. I like the single receiver, especially handy in smaller aircraft.

5. I think the Futaba has an easier binding process and stays bound better.

6. I believe (JMO) that the Futaba 2.4 system is more robust. I have engineering experience and studied both. This is not to say there is any problem with the JR.

I am probably Futaba loyal because of familarity, but believe there is nothing wrong with JR. It's just a preference because of familiarity with Futaba, and the features listed above.

JR's biggest advantage is the "model match" feature which is very nice.

Hope this helps.

As for you JR loyalists, stay off my back, I have spoken well of JR and have a right to my opinion. I am now donning my asbestos suit as I know the flames are coming, anyway.

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RE: Futabas new 2.4 10C and JR's 2.4 9303 - 3/18/2008 8:49 AM   
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Flying Geezer,
Thanks for the info. I understand it all, EXCEPT #5 and also the "model match" feature of the JR.
What is this "binding process" all about (not looking for you to type a page long scientific discussion, just a brief explanation, that is, of course if you don't mind)

Secondly, what does the "model match" feature do on the JR exactly?? Does it just allow you to setup a second plane with the exact same settings??? (my best guess!)
I'm shocked that the JR 9303 does not have a digital trim. ??? What's up with that. LOL.
Thanks so much FG, this is EXACTLY what I was after.

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RE: Futabas new 2.4 10C and JR's 2.4 9303 - 3/18/2008 10:09 AM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Paul Cataldo
What is this "binding process" all about (not looking for you to type a page long scientific discussion, just a brief explanation, that is, of course if you don't mind)


JR/Spektrum require that you use a binding plug to bind the rx and tx. They also use it for the fail safe settings -- fail safe returns all channels to the setings that had when the rx was last bound. This binding plug must be plugged into the battery port of the receiver, and that can be a challenge. It may mean having to disconnect the battery to free up that port and power the rx from another port. Binding can be done through the charge jack if you have a three wire jack and lead to the rx. Futaba binding is hold the micro switch until bound. It's kind of small, but I think it is less hassle than a binding plug. With the 12 and 14 channel txs fail safe is set in the transmitter and is not affected by binding. The TM-7 module may be affected by binding -- I can't recall as I haven't done it in awhile...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Paul Cataldo
Secondly, what does the "model match" feature do on the JR exactly??


Model match is a very nice safety feature that only JR/Specktrum offer. In short -- the rx will only respond to the tx to which it is bound, when the model memory in that tx that it was bound to is selected. This means that you cannot fly with the wrong model memory selected. So far only JR/Spectrum have this feature, and since it is likely patented only they will have if for the foreseable future. Many like this feature a lot and would not consider a system that doesn't have it.


< Message edited by GalenB -- 3/18/2008 10:10 AM >



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RE: Futabas new 2.4 10C and JR's 2.4 9303 - 3/18/2008 10:12 AM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Flying Geezer
As for you JR loyalists, stay off my back, I have spoken well of JR and have a right to my opinion. I am now donning my asbestos suit as I know the flames are coming, anyway.


Yeah -- like that's gonna happen!



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RE: Futabas new 2.4 10C and JR's 2.4 9303 - 3/18/2008 3:32 PM   
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Gotcha,
Man I don't really see the "model match" feature as any real benefit. Waste of time IMO.
I don't care how many planes you have, if you try to fly your plane with the wrong model program in your Tx, you need to slow down and think your whole process through again....
It just doesn't happen in my world. Never understood it, but I guess some guys make mistakes like that...

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RE: Futabas new 2.4 10C and JR's 2.4 9303 - 3/18/2008 4:06 PM   
LAN


 

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Another difference between Futaba and JR are the timers. On Futaba radios you can start a timer with the throttle, this is not possible on JR radios, AFAIK. This is a feature I use mostly for my electric planes, might not be so important for giant scale planes.

/Leif

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RE: Futabas new 2.4 10C and JR's 2.4 9303 - 3/18/2008 4:25 PM   
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Paul,

You ask a question that is on the minds of thousands of folks and when all is said and done I don't see a black or white answer. We are extremely fortunate that both the 10C and the 9303 are such wonderful radios (no real data yet on the 10C). To make matters even more interesting Airtronics is working on a 10 channel SS radio to add to our list of comparisons. I recently moved from a 9C Super to a 9303 (with XPS) and the difference was a real treat to experience. I surely don't mean the 9C is not a good radio it is just that the 9303 (which is proportionately more expensive) is in another league. It is truly an exceptional radio with many more features and much more logical to program. The way I made my decision was to read the owners manuals which is like a self imposed weekend jail sentence. The JR manual has all of the information but, it is like learning to speak english by learning from a dictionary. It took a lot of effort and I had to read (down loaded it) it several times before I could make out the trees from the forest - but, once I did I knew I had found my radio. I also looked at Multiplex and some higher priced units. The key to my decision was reading the manuals.

The manual for the 10C is not available yet but, the 12FG manual is available and my guess is that they are going to be similar - I realize that is just my opinion. I have read the 12FG manual twice and that radio can do almost everything except kiss you good night. There are some features I don't like such as idle down is backwards and should be idle up and the throttle cut vs the throttle trim cut on the 9303 is very inconvenient (same as the 9C). I love the SD card vs the CAMPAC on the 10C but, I could learn to live with that. If the 10C is the little brother to the 12FG and at half the price it is going to be a big seller. Choosing between the 10C and the 9303 is a great problem to have and it will be fun to make the choice. The Futaba web site has a wonderful feature comparison chart for all Futaba radios - keep an eye on that chart to see when they add the 10C and it might be helpful. I also agree with you that model match is a feature similar to a car key that prevents you from starting the wrong car - it solves a problem that I don't have. Happy choosing and happy flying

Howard


< Message edited by Howard -- 3/18/2008 4:29 PM >


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RE: Futabas new 2.4 10C and JR's 2.4 9303 - 3/18/2008 6:07 PM   
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Well I'd say your choice might boil down to when you want to fly?

It is also difficult to compare the two when not even the manual is available for the 10C. That said, while some speculation might be accurate, there's no way to know for sure until you get your hands on something definitive from Futaba.

While Futaba is not alone in making shall we say, optimistic predictions of availability? Their record with some items has been dismal i.e. the TM8 module sets have been "coming soon" for over a year.

You may want to consider radios that you can get your hands on right now and that would be the 12FG or X9303.



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RE: Futabas new 2.4 10C and JR's 2.4 9303 - 3/18/2008 6:21 PM   
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I sell both, so I'm not going to talk about each one here. I have seen both. If you have any questions PM me and Ill send you my store number. Randy is right on most of the things he said. both radios play very well with each other. We give each other a hard time when he comes in, but it's all in fun. Dennis

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RE: Futabas new 2.4 10C and JR's 2.4 9303 - 3/18/2008 6:39 PM   
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Everyonewants to justify their choice - just like justifying their religion.
One point I would make - If you have not used a Model Match radio -you simply can't appreciate the advantage of it
On electric powered models -I would say, it is a necessity.
Why?
because people make mistakes - and on electrics -the possibility of starting up two models at the same time ( sans Model Match) is just toooo easy. Am I an expert on mistakes which cause accidents and injuries ?
a number of US State n Federal courts say "yes - I am. Having worked in analyzing accidents which caused hand/arm injuries - I developed a healthy suspicion of how accidents happen. None of em were funny and none of em were intentional and when I find a method of reducing the chance of an accident -I look at it long and hard
Model Match -in my opinion- is well worth having . Even for those "who never make mistakes".
Your opinion may be different - but as this is an open forum - I thought I would offer mine -again - FWIW.


< Message edited by dick Hanson -- 3/18/2008 6:44 PM >


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RE: Futabas new 2.4 10C and JR's 2.4 9303 - 3/18/2008 7:00 PM   
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I'm a futaba guy, and recent switcher to 2.4. I couldn't wait till the 10c came out and went with the 7c for now, with the intention of moving to the 10 when they were readily available. With all the added expense of receivers to make the conversion, saving a bit on the transmitter for now was a good choice for me.

I've been using a 9c since it came out and really like the radio, but the 7c is not bad in comparison. Not quite as many options, and not quite as intuitive in programming, but not bad.

As to the model match, I think it is a great feature and would like to have it. Once or twice in the past 10 years I have started a plane on the wrong model memory, but caught it before taking off. Having model match would be helpful and could prevent accidents at the field, I am sure of it.

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RE: Futabas new 2.4 10C and JR's 2.4 9303 - 3/18/2008 7:09 PM   
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Hi Paul,
I'm a 9C user and I recently had a chance to look at and play with a 10C at the WRAM show last month.
The 10C is a major overhaul of the 9C, the programming is basically the same, but I was told that the internal processor is much faster than the 9C, so the high latency in mixing that the 9C is known for should not be an issue in the 10C.
One major difference with the 10C, compared to the JR 9303 is that the 10C, while being a "native" 2.4Ghz radio, is a modular design and gives you the flexibility of being able to switch out the RF module for situations where 2.4Ghz is a problem, such as in a carbon fiber fuselage glider. Dedicated (non-modular) 2.4Ghz radios may be fine for entry level 6 and 7 channel rigs, but in a 9+ channel radio it is not what it's cracked up to be, the only "advantage" is that with a dedicated 2.4Ghz radio the antenna can be in the traditional location, or arguably where folks think it should be.
I was very pleased with the antenna arrangement on the 10C, (the 9Cw/FASST module is identical) one can pick up the transmitter from its case, lay it down to start up their model (you can lay it on its back and the antenna itself never comes in contact with the surface it's lying on), then pick up the radio to fly and never touch the antenna, you are hardly aware that there is even an antenna on the radio. I very much look forward to getting the 8 channel module for my 9C.

Howard raised the digital vs analog throttle trim issue (BTW, outside the US, JR 9303 radios have digital throttle trim), that's kinda like politics or religion, everybody's got there preference Ditto for the differences in the programming between the 9C and 9303, both are very powerful radios in that area, though the 9C seems to have a little edge in the timer department and I use the timers for all my flying (amazing how it reduces dead sticks , or 'puffed" packs if you fly lipo powered electrics)

I very much prefer the digital throttle trim on the 9C, I use the trainer switch as my throttle kill switch as I never do training with my radio, we have club buddy box setups just for training purposes.
I too feel that "model match", while nice, is no deal breaker, I have to assume that Futaba could not implement it on their radios without coming into conflict with Spektrum, but there is no substitute for a proper pre-flight check of the controls before every flight.
As Howard said, with Airtronics entering the 2.4Ghz market and Hitec eventually joining the club (they gotta, your either in or out ) is is an incredible time for radio technology, the features vs price of todays radios is incredible
Best of luck choosing your new radio
Pete


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RE: Futabas new 2.4 10C and JR's 2.4 9303 - 3/18/2008 7:48 PM   
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I recently had the same choice to make. I have always flown JR and only used Futaba once. It came down to trying to learn a new program and menu on the Futaba for me. I really didn't like the menu layout and programing on the Futaba, or maybe I was just comfortable with the JR layout? They are both fine radios and will serve you well. I just didn't want to learn a new programing menu.


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RE: Futabas new 2.4 10C and JR's 2.4 9303 - 3/18/2008 8:26 PM   
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Dick,
You raise an interesting point, regarding model match and electrics, I'm last last person in the world you could accuse of never making a mistake . I fly a mix of glow and electric all the time and I plan on going to gas soon. My electrics never have a charged or partially discharged battery left in them, much less connected (nothing I fly requires arming switches). While I can see your point, I really think that the risk of an electric starting up is not all that serious, leaving a large scale electric sitting with the battery connected when its not being flown is like leaving a loaded gun laying around, not a good idea under any condition.
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RE: Futabas new 2.4 10C and JR's 2.4 9303 - 3/18/2008 10:17 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pilotpete2

Dick,
You raise an interesting point, regarding model match and electrics, I'm last last person in the world you could accuse of never making a mistake . I fly a mix of glow and electric all the time and I plan on going to gas soon. My electrics never have a charged or partially discharged battery left in them, much less connected (nothing I fly requires arming switches). While I can see your point, I really think that the risk of an electric starting up is not all that serious, leaving a large scale electric sitting with the battery connected when its not being flown is like leaving a loaded gun laying around, not a good idea under any condition.
Pete

I also would have never believed Icould leave a model with the battery connected after flying --but I did- it was an ERATIX with 5 A123 cells - I finishd flying it - pushed it back to the pits and was somehow distracted-then pulled out the Diamante - connected the cells - switched models -took out the plane and flew it
then pushed it back to the pits - THEN when I popped the hatch on the ERATIX- there was the power pack -still engaged. The ERATIX never glitched or moved during all the time it sat whilst I flew the other model

IF I had been flying my old system a JR 10x on 53.3-- here is what would have happened :
I would have called up the next model then plugged in the battery---Then carried it to the flight line
When I added throttle for take off - the other model would have also powered up.
So this is why I LOVE the Model match - A stupid mistake ? you bet
that is why they call em accidents.
Of course some guys never make mistakes - so the Model match for them is not worth having.


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RE: Futabas new 2.4 10C and JR's 2.4 9303 - 3/18/2008 11:45 PM   
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I have only made one mistake ,it was back in '46. I thought that I was wrong about something, but as it turned out, I was right.

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RE: Futabas new 2.4 10C and JR's 2.4 9303 - 3/18/2008 11:54 PM   
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Hi Dick,
Thanks for sharing that experience. We joke about "brain farts" but those little interruptions in our routine can lead to bad results.
I use a bunch of the CC T-bird controllers and I like the way they beep at you every 30 seconds if the throttle is closed or there is no signal to the receiver, I'm sure that has at least save a few lipos from being pooched.
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RE: Futabas new 2.4 10C and JR's 2.4 9303 - 3/19/2008 2:07 AM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pilotpete2

Hi Dick,
Thanks for sharing that experience. We joke about "brain farts" but those little interruptions in our routine can lead to bad results.
I use a bunch of the CC T-bird controllers and I like the way they beep at you every 30 seconds if the throttle is closed or there is no signal to the receiver, I'm sure that has at least save a few lipos from being pooched.
Pete


you really can't be too careful- -I have fun -and don't walk around with Kevlar armor - but the small "help me outs" are well worth having.

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RE: Futabas new 2.4 10C and JR's 2.4 9303 - 3/19/2008 4:03 AM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pilotpete2

The 10C is a major overhaul of the 9C, the programming is basically the same


That is why I went to the 9303--The 9303 also has "servo-sync" which to me is a BIG feature. I had a 9C for 5 years and I could never get my dual elevator servos to be in perfect alignment . I could get them close but no cigar. With servo-sync both channels get the signal at the exact same time so they both move at the same time without needing matchboxes, equalizers etc. My only complaint with the 9303 is you are limited to what switches can be used unlike the 9C where you can use any switch for anything you want. Dont quite follow the JR programmers on that one.

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RE: Futabas new 2.4 10C and JR's 2.4 9303 - 3/19/2008 4:40 AM   
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Guys,

The 10C has Servo grouping for synchronization.

in fact here is some of the specs in case someone needs it.

Channels: 10 Channel
Modulation: 2.4GHz FASST
Mode: Heli/Airplane/Sailplane
Model Memory: 16
Receiver: R6014FS 14 Channel
Tx Battery: 700mAh 7.2V
Rx Battery: 600mAh 4.8V - Helicopter, Airplane and Sailplane software
- Support 13 wing, 3 tail, 8 heli swash plate types
- Exponential rates on ailerons, elevator and rudder
- End points adjustments
- Trainer system compatible with Futaba radios
- Servo grouping for synchronization
- Stick Mode from 1 to 4
- Power down range checking
- Throttle-smart fail-safe system
- Digital trims for precise adjustment
- Joystick button and Dial-N Key for easier navigation
- Quad-bearing gimbals
- LCD 255 x 196 screen

Airplane Specific Features
- 27 pre-programmed mixes
- Flap-to-elevator mixing
- Flaperon, Elevator mixing
- Delta wing mixing
- Aileron differential
- V-tail mixing
- Programmable throttle cut

Helicopter Specific Features
- 5-point Throttle Curves
- 5-point Pitch Curve
- Gyro programming
- 3-swash plate types
- Throttle hold
- Rudder pitch revolution mixing
- Independent digital trim setting for each flight mode


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RE: Futabas new 2.4 10C and JR's 2.4 9303 - 3/19/2008 4:50 AM   
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From: **, NJ, USA
Status: offline
Cool!! Good to see they listened to their customers!

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(in reply to DougV)
       Post #: 24

RE: Futabas new 2.4 10C and JR's 2.4 9303 - 3/19/2008 3:38 PM   
summerwind


 

Posts: 3954
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Joined: 2/17/2007
Last Login: 5/20/2013
From: fresno, CA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DougV

Guys,

The 10C has Servo grouping for synchronization.

in fact here is some of the specs in case someone needs it.


-
- Quad-bearing gimbals




Doug, where did you get this info?


< Message edited by summerwind -- 3/19/2008 3:39 PM >


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       Post #: 25

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