rooker

My Feedback: (1)

Radio is kinda mean

Radioman193

No but i will help ya out on whatever you need

lets see.................
the two Main things were

#1 I did dremel off the lip on the steel clutch drum BUT DONT REMOVEThe pins thethe clutchuses....
that was so i could shift in and out of reverse at LOW rpm and it dont get Stuck in reverse or forward now like it use to do.

#2 i readjusted the centrifugal clutch on the forward and reverse gearsto engage at a Supper low rpm
now the motor dont wast Rpms before the truck moves .....now the drivetrain will engage at 1/2 turn of the Spur gear.
and now it Dont SLAM into forward or reverse like it would setup as nitro.......

#3 the motormount is homemade and mounts to the tranny with 3 Small and short screws and nuts
but for the motor i needed to trim some of the case of the tranny to fit the contourand size of the motor and i used foam to fill the Verry small gap
between the motor and tranny to keep rocks and dirt out of it..... i can do some pix for you if you would like.....


it was all done in just a few hours the part that took the longest was step #1
the motormount was made from a pice of old plastic from a old Project box that i cut lol with a soldering iron and a file to clean and smooth it out.

and my cheapo battery box was made of the same plastic and is mounted usen1 hole that was for the nitro moror mount and 1 hole that was used forthe fuel tank.
then i puta wedge between the battery box and motormount tohelp keep the motorfrom moving side to side as the motormount is only plastic.
i will make aaluminum one at some timebut this one works fine for now.................it looks like it holds up to bashing and crashing i have done to it sofar......

well just let me know what ya need when ya do.......

Radioman193

LOL far from i like to have fun to......
im just like everyone else i dont like to be slamed or put down


But if "we" are going to talk about building a cheap truck or me lets not hijack this persons thread to do it ....
lets use my thread here : www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_9911547/tm.htm

rooker

My Feedback: (1)

Radioman is OK!!!!!

I know how it feels, just picking with you.  I like to have fun...........by all means, keep helping us guys that do not have the experience some of you guys have.

mufflerbearing

FOC does fix a lot.

1. gets rid of the annoying bucking
2. gets rid of a TON of weight
3. makes the engine able to rev up faster and makes the truck more responsive
4.makes the tranny stronger

Reverse is useless when you are a good driver anyway.

Radioman193

LOL!

2. gets rid of a TON of weight............................. LOLOLOL
3. makes the engine able to rev up faster and makes the truck more responsive.....................OMG
4.makes the tranny stronger........................Not


Ummmm ok .......................... LOL

Enjoy your Foc

rooker

My Feedback: (1)

I am working on the better driving............

Snook Man

kyntar

Deleted

Radioman193

LOL
2. gets rid of a TON of weight

More like Grams .

6.12mm wide - 3.2 Grams
to
8.08mm wide - 5.6 Grams

now you gain weight Back. on gear weight.


6.12mm wide gear rotating mass
is lower than
a 8.08mm wide gear

the Stock clutch drum is 34.0 Grams

so the Gain of a FOC is - 34.0 Grams.

so the stock weight = 37.2 Grams+ idler gear is 3Grams = 40 Grams
not including Shaft weight
as thay Are the same weight FOC and Non Foc shaft.




and the rotating massof 40 extra Grams is NOT worth the time to take the tranny apart..

a simple servo motor its self hasMore than 40 grams oftorque before the gearbox.


Its Simple Logic andmechanical physics.




and in done with this thread.
its not worth no more of my time.

Enjoy.

Mclovin350z

Lmao! You actually weighed that crap?! Or even took the time to look it up? EIther way the FOC is better, you end up with less rotating mass because there's no more metal drum inside the trans, a wider plastic gear isn't going to factor in at all. You have the weight of the counter gear (metal) plus two bearings if I remember right. Don't forget the fork and the servo too. Why you argue with these guys and get so defensive is beyond me. I guess it kind of shows in your signature where you mention that you're a licensed electrical guru or whatever. You're proud, you can't handle being wrong, you probably chose this site so you could be a big fish in a small pond. There's alot of big fish in here pal, snook man is one guy who really knows his stuff.I know my trx's pretty well too, but I'm drifting away from them so I have forgotten some stuff. 10 years is long enough with t-maxxes and revos. You keep your reverse, I know you need it with an electric t-maxx trans. The only truck I have with reverse is my xxl, but it's new I'll probably delete it.

Radioman193

lol ...... ok


Q
#1

" Why you argue with these guys and get so defensive is beyond me."
A
Im not im just stating a fact.

Q
" I guess it kind of shows in your signature where you mention that you're a licensed electrical guru or whatever."
A
This has Nothing to do with it.

Q
" You're proud, you can't handle being wrong "
A
i just like so see pepole get ALL the facts. and dont like to see people fall for con jobs

Q
" you probably chose this site so you could be a big fish in a small pond."
A
Im also a member of BYT / Rc Monster and like 6 others

its just funny to watch the forums and see how things unfold
a person will ask a question and tha all tell him that this is the only way to fix a problem and come to findout that was Not the fix to the problem..
NOT to dwell on the matter
But just for EXAMPLE

If reverse was sutch a BIG problem as most "Road racers" would have you think
well why would Traxxas have went and incorporated the reverse and first and second into the design of the transmission.

Problems sutch as
"bucking" lol
gear striping
and takeoff lag
harsh drive train engagement

and the list of Excuses goes on for the use of a FOC in the forums.

when 99.8% of the timeit was just the thay just did not look into the isue.
just take the time to set things up PROPERLY

Yes i will say that a FOC is less weight
Yes Weight is Mass and is your factor intherotating mass as 0 in weight would be a weight of 0 in yourrotating mass.

all the parts involved is like the Parts for the first gear and for the reverse dont weigh that mutch it is only 4.28oz
and at 4.28oz what is your gain for a 4.28oz loss
well if your on Blacktop on a perfectly flat surface or street andIF you were to see a differance would only be like ill even go way out and say 1Mph.
for all the work on the tranny and the loss of first gear and reverse.

i have seen were people have done the FOC and have noticed nobenefit at all and went back to there stock configuration.


i will say this

If all you do with your Monster truck is High speed Blacktop runningthenitMight be a benefit for you.

but if you use your Monster truck for OffRoad it will be of No benefit at all
and with the loss of first gear you will loose the higher torque on the Lowend and thats a Sweet thing to have when you OffRoad.

and yesi did mention first gear....................
as most remove this at the same time.

1QwkSport2.5r

Forward Only conversions isnt going to make your transmission any stronger, in reality. It may seem as such, but its more likely to make the transmission more efficient. I have FOC in my LST2 MT's because it eliminates the reverse and hi/low range which is quite heavy. My LST2's transmissions probably lost 1/3 of the weight it originally had. So on some Models (NOT ALL) it will save weight. The other reason I went Forward Only is with reverse. Reverse is a nice thing to have, but if you shift into reverse at speed your sunk and have to rebuild the transmission. The throw of the reverse arm on my transmission is very short and if the batteries get low, the servo could get twitchy and cause it to shift or pop in/out of gear when its not supposed to.

I know this isnt an apples to apples comparison. I do know that a lot of research went into the design of these transmissions and they do function as they should for THE MOST PART. The concept of Reverse (especially in a Monster Truck) is a great idea but no company has it perfected yet. Every reverse transmission I've ever seen has had some sort of problems. Some work fine and others don't. The key to having one of these transmissions operate properly (IMO) is not having any bent parts (namely the input and output shafts since they take the brunt of the abuse) and smooth running bearings. 1 bad bearing can throw the geometry of the whole transmission off.

If I buy a used Truck (which all of the trucks I have now are used except for 1 LST2 which I built from scratch) I pull the transmission out and pull the engine out. Completely tear it down, clean, inspect, and check for damaged parts. Your output shaft of the transmission is probably the one part I would keep a close eye on. It bears the brunt of the abuse and in some cases can get bent from hard hits. Slipper clutches set properly will help with this.

I'm not an expert, don't claim to be, and don't want to get labeled as such. Just putting in my 2¢.

Good Luck.

Snook Man

Radioman,

 

I truly hope you are not done with this thread as I’m not arguing with you, just trying to change your point of view. I have been modifying the black tranny since I stripped my 1^st reverse gear in 1999.

Since then I have been able to convert the tranny into many different gear setups.

Low ratio, high ratio, center differential, 3 speeds, and a single speed double gear set that I’m currently making. I also have a variable ratio that no one has ever seen.

As you can tell, I am a big fan of the black tranny and will discuss it anytime someone wants.

 

There are a few flaws in your “Simple Logic and mechanical physics”.

 

1 – “6.12mm wide gear rotating mass 
is lower than a 8.08mm wide gear”

 

The 6.12mm wide output gear is only the width of the gear face not the total width of the gear. The forward and/or reverse output gears are heavier than the FOC gear.

 

2 – “the Stock clutch drum is 34.0 Grams

so the Gain of a FOC is - 34.0 Grams.

so the stock weight = 37.2 Grams + idler gear is 3 Grams = 40 Grams 
not including Shaft weight
as thay Are the same weight FOC and Non Foc shaft”

 

1^st, There is a 2 gm difference in the stock output shaft compared to the FOC shaft. The FOC shaft is the heavier.

 

2^nd. Total weight savings for the removed rotating parts. (Not included is the clutch fork as it is non-rotating, and the plastic spacers for the stock output shaft).

 

Rotating Parts removed. 72 grams.

 

Rotating parts installed. 20 grams.

 

That’s a total of 52 grams of rotating mass removed from the transmission when the FOC is installed.

 

This represents 52 grams of rotating mass.

52 grams may not sound like a lot but when you consider that it is slightly more than 1/3 the total weight of all the stock rotating gears and shafts in the tranny and see a picture of it, it puts it in perspective.

If the stock reverse equipped tranny was as reliable as the FOC I would run it.

Don’t get me wrong, the FOC is not the cure all; it still has a lot to be desired and could have been designed better.

 

Once again, I’m not trying to argue with you or prove you wrong. I’m just trying to get you to look at it in a different perspective.

Radioman193

i did not put the parts on a scale it was a estimate.

but the fact is .............. its not mutch.

1QwkSport2.5r

Its not much, you're right. In a bashing environment, it probably wouldn't change much. In a racing environment, that 52g difference (almost 2oz) can make the difference between 1st place and 3rd place.

Mclovin350z

Traxxas put the reverse in for SALES.... period. All it had to do was reverse, and people wouldbe amazed.They weren't concernedwith how well it worked back in '99.Snook if you get the cvt figured out you'll be arich man.

Mclovin350z

loss of first gear and reverse.

i have seen were people have done the FOC and have noticed nobenefit at all and went back to there stock configuration.


i will say this

If all you do with your Monster truck is High speed Blacktop runningthenitMight be a benefit for you.

but if you use your Monster truck for OffRoad it will be of No benefit at all
and with the loss of first gear you will loose the higher torque on the Lowend and thats a Sweet thing to have when you OffRoad.

and yesi did mention first gear....................
as most remove this at the same time.
"i just like so see pepole get ALL the facts. and dont like to see people fall for con jobs"
Why would I remove first gear? It's not part of A FOC conversion at all, in fact I don't think it's possible unless there's a newkit that I'm unaware of. Quit fronting like you know it all and give up. The FOC is always better than reverse, 9 times out of ten when I have to run to my truck it's upside-down, not stuck. I've only been using them for ten years now, what would I know?

mufflerbearing

I think there is a LOT of confusion going on here.

FOC is Forward Only Conversion. It still retains the 2-speed gears and the trans will shift normally. It simply deletes the parts that control the reverse. single speed conversion converts the trans to a single speed only. This is not related to this discussion. We are talking about FOC.

FOC does get rid of the FR gear set, clutch bell, shifter fork, servo, and linkages. All that junk adds up.

And if it was that good, why does the new Revo and t-maxx come with FOC right out of the box? Because reverse was unnecessary crap. It came out with the original t-maxx for the cool-ness factor and nothing more.

Radioman193

thats why i sed

" and yesi did mention first gear....................
as most remove this at the same time"

as in locking it into second gear.

Q
"Why would I remove first gear? It's not part of A FOC conversion at all, in fact I don't think it's possible "

A
Yes
www.traxxas.com/PDF-Library/5193XINST%20TMaxx%20sngl%20spd.pdf

www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p


Q
" And if it was that good, why does the new Revo and t-maxx come with FOC right out of the box? "

A
cause thay watch and see what pepole are doing with the Revo and maxx trying to appease there coustomers.
and thay can cut the caust of production and make more profitin doing so at the same time.
its a win win for traxxas

as 99% of revo buyers use them for road racing
and more people ard moding the Maxx for road raceing.

verry few use them as true Off Road vehiclesany more now days
like thay were made for from the start well at least the Maxx.
the revo is more like a "road" version or answerto the people that wanted a Betterand more road worthy Maxx.

Mclovin350z

I'm done arguing with you, I've got grown-up things to do, like work and house/car payments etc. You've made a fool out of yourself, it's obvious you thought a foc deletes first gear......I don't hate ya for it, just let the OP get what he can out of this thread and move on.

Snook Man

Radioman, I haven’t given up on trying to convince you that the FOC is stronger than a reverse equipped tranny yet.

 

Here are two gears. The one on the left is the stock forward output gear; the one on the right is the FOC gear.

The tooth width on the left gear is 6.12mm

The tooth width on the right gear is 8.08mm

 

 

Which of the two gears which are made by the same manufacturer using the same type of plastic/nylon would you consider to be the stronger gear?

 

Radioman193

i need to go back over the thread .................................................. .
as i thaut ............

I Never sed nothing about the strength or longevity of the gears.

But on this note
im shure wider or hardergears can be and Are made for the unmodified transmission.
like from : robinsonracing
or another place to get good upgrade parts.

as people have stayed with reverse and ALL metal upgraded gears.

My point was that 4oz of rotating massis not that big of a deal
unless your looking for that faster shorterlaunching time off the starting line ina lineup of other cars.
after youlaunch you will gain nothing to speak of as therotating masshas started to rotate.
so if your motor lets sayhas a top RPM of 3000RPM you will not gain a Noticeable overall toprpmwith or with out the extra 4oz
"unless your motor MAX torque is less than the rc vehicles weight "
as 4oz is Not even noticed by the motor after spool up as An object in motion will remain in motion unless acted upon by an unbalanced force .


and can be a benefit however small that is...

"An object in motion will remain in motion unless acted upon by an unbalanced force."

EXAMPLE

on this you would see an extra 4oz of force applyed to the forward motion of the rc vehicle upon entering the Jump ramp from the level ground .... if one was performing a jump.

effectivelygiving you a extra 4oz of forward momentum on exiting or launching off the ramp.

Radioman193

No..........
its just MOST do more than One mod when thayhave the tranny open.
why do only part of the job ?


Yes i did mention it in the wrong place............ My Bad.
im shure its not going to bring the end of the world as we know itno sooner than normal.....

thechap76

My Feedback: (26)

WOW !!!!!! i cant believe this thread is still being argued...and the point thats being discussed isnt even why the thread was started....yall enjoy