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Tire issue with E-Revo

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Old 08-23-2014, 05:34 PM
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Default Tire issue with E-Revo

OK RC'ers Revos have not been my thing. I am building one up for a friend.I need very stiff tires. If I could I would like to do full foam tires but getting a very stiff foam inside the tire is also an option.

So you revo guys tell me your best ideas on what you have done to make stiff tires.
Old 08-23-2014, 05:58 PM
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I assume you're building the truck for speed runs? If so putting a stiff foam inside the tire isn't going to prevent the tire from expanding or ballooning. Taping the inside of the tire is the only way to really prevent ballooning. Most use either strapping tape (the one reinforced with strands or Gorilla tape.

If you want to go with a full foam tire BSR is known to make foam tires in whatever size and compound you want. I've seen a few top speed monster trucks with them before. I e also seen a Revo with an adapter to run 1/5 touring car tires which are a harder compound. I can't find the adapters on eBay anymore though.
Old 08-24-2014, 04:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Maj_Overdrive
I assume you're building the truck for speed runs? If so putting a stiff foam inside the tire isn't going to prevent the tire from expanding or ballooning. Taping the inside of the tire is the only way to really prevent ballooning. Most use either strapping tape (the one reinforced with strands or Gorilla tape.

If you want to go with a full foam tire BSR is known to make foam tires in whatever size and compound you want. I've seen a few top speed monster trucks with them before. I e also seen a Revo with an adapter to run 1/5 touring car tires which are a harder compound. I can't find the adapters on eBay anymore though.

Maj Overdrive, Thank you for the response but this is no way is going to be a fast truck. As a matter fact it will most likely never go over 20MPH. On the taping the insides I started that over 30 years ago. What I have here is a Revo, something I in reality have never worked on before. I cant go into detail why this vehicle is going to be like it is because the guy I am building this for is developing a product in a unrelated field. Now I like the adapter idea to 5th scale wheels. That exact reason is why I post questions like that here and other forums. There are guys like you that have been into Revos for years and have been looking into what is and has been out there.

Let me ask you another question I a will most likely be removing the shocks from this do you know if anyone makes a straight arm shock replacement?

Again thank you so much for the response.
Old 08-24-2014, 09:53 AM
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I understand not going into detail and while I'm still not sure exactly what you're looking for I think I have a pretty good idea now. Btw I've had a few Revos, but you don't have to be an expert in them to see what you need. If you know engineering and fabrication you can figure it out though. Putting a second foam inside the tire would increase the load capacity. But here's some options other options.

The 1/5 adapter idea may work for you depending on the weight of the vehicle and the tire size you're looking for. The ones I've seen and mentioned were for putting 1/5 touring car onroad tires on a Revo. These are very hard tires with virtually no sidewall flex but they are onroad tires and also need a little heat in them to get the best traction depending on the compound. 1/5 onroad wheels have a 18mm square drive commonly used on FG vehicles. There are also 1/5 off-road buggy tires that use the same adapter and would work well supporting a vehicle weighing 30lbs or less. If you need a bigger tire FG made Monster Truck tires as well.

The easier route would be using HPI Baja wheels and tires. The Baja uses a 24mm hex and there are commonly available 23mm hex adapters for the Revo. Wrapping the 23mm hex with aluminum tape meant for duct work takes up the gap nicely. There's way more tires available for the Baja and they will support vehicles around 30lbs with no issue as well. MCD also uses the 24 mm hex for their wheels so there's even more variety with this option.

If you want to make the suspension rigid on the Revo I have a suggestion. Remove the shocks and remove the Rocker arms. Make a custom length pushrod and connect it to the chassis. The Rocker arm posts would probably be a good spot and ride height could be adjusted by the length of the pushrod. You could keep the rocker arms and just replace the shocks with solid links as well. Depends on whether or not you need the space on the chassis.

Last edited by Maj_Overdrive; 08-24-2014 at 09:56 AM.
Old 08-24-2014, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Maj_Overdrive
I understand not going into detail and while I'm still not sure exactly what you're looking for I think I have a pretty good idea now. Btw I've had a few Revos, but you don't have to be an expert in them to see what you need. If you know engineering and fabrication you can figure it out though. Putting a second foam inside the tire would increase the load capacity. But here's some options other options.

The 1/5 adapter idea may work for you depending on the weight of the vehicle and the tire size you're looking for. The ones I've seen and mentioned were for putting 1/5 touring car onroad tires on a Revo. These are very hard tires with virtually no sidewall flex but they are onroad tires and also need a little heat in them to get the best traction depending on the compound. 1/5 onroad wheels have a 18mm square drive commonly used on FG vehicles. There are also 1/5 off-road buggy tires that use the same adapter and would work well supporting a vehicle weighing 30lbs or less. If you need a bigger tire FG made Monster Truck tires as well.

The easier route would be using HPI Baja wheels and tires. The Baja uses a 24mm hex and there are commonly available 23mm hex adapters for the Revo. Wrapping the 23mm hex with aluminum tape meant for duct work takes up the gap nicely. There's way more tires available for the Baja and they will support vehicles around 30lbs with no issue as well. MCD also uses the 24 mm hex for their wheels so there's even more variety with this option.

If you want to make the suspension rigid on the Revo I have a suggestion. Remove the shocks and remove the Rocker arms. Make a custom length pushrod and connect it to the chassis. The Rocker arm posts would probably be a good spot and ride height could be adjusted by the length of the pushrod. You could keep the rocker arms and just replace the shocks with solid links as well. Depends on whether or not you need the space on the chassis.
Maj Overdrive

Again thank you. Well things just got interesting. The truck just arrived at my house about an hour ago. It is not a Revo it is a Summit. He thought he bought a Revo but when he showed up I said "Summit not Revo" He looked confused. But that is why he is not building this up, I am.

So here is what I am going to do first. I just bought the heaviest springs I can get, purple dot red shocks. Because he thinks shocks is what he wants to do. So now I have to make the client happy. Going to do it his way then after that does not work right I an going to build solid rods to replace the whole shocks.

Also bought all new proper beadlock rims and new tires that I will fill with much harder foam.

Also going to get Castle Mamba Max 2 and either 1518 or 1520 motor. Finally the battery up grade to the two - 2 cell 9000 mah Max Amps batteries.

All this should move the extra 12 pounds of weight on top and rather high of the truck around fairly well. Going to gear this low for torque. It will not be driven over 20MPH. Most likely closer to 10 peak but with all the weight I want the power to move it no matter what.

What do you think?
Old 08-24-2014, 05:26 PM
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Well I can tell you the purple for springs aren't going to work. I extended the chassis of a ERevo to 1/5 scale and the truck RTR weighed about 15-16lbs. The springs were able to support the weight but only just support it. Also no amount of shock tuning could control body roll even with the thickest Traxxas anti roll bars. Also with 12lbs added on top of the chassis weight transfer during acceleration and braking is going to be amplified resulting in a nausea inducing video image. Get those rods ready to replace the shocks.

A Castle 1518 will bolt right into the Erevo/Summit, a 1520 will not. It's too long and wants to occupy the same space as the rear shock tower. I'm also a little worried about the available gearing and being able to gear for speeds as low as your looking for. With the Summit in 1st gear it may be possible but it's doubtful in 2nd gear even with 1600kv on 4s. Time to do some gearing calculations with whatever tire size you've decided on.

If you need to go lower on the kv or just want lots of torque consider an outrunner motor. With 8 or more poles they have lots of torque and a very tractable power band that may be smoother when throttle is applied. They're also available in kv's that are a lot lower which may help in your speed goals or provide some more flexibility than a higher kv inrunner would. For example you may find a 1000kv would provide a nice slow crawl speed in 1st gear while. 2nd could be used for faster manuvering.

Last edited by Maj_Overdrive; 08-24-2014 at 05:29 PM.
Old 08-24-2014, 05:41 PM
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Btw there's also 2 available gear ratios available for the Summit/ERevo/EMaxx trans. There's close ratio and wide ratio gears, the wide ratio gear set has a slower speed 1st gear. 2nd gear has the same ratio in both gear sets and is actually the same ratio as the single speed transmission.

I did did a quick set of calculations based on stock 6.3" tires, 1600kv on 4s and 16/68 gearing which I believe is the lowest that will fit. With wide ratio gears in the trans and in 1st gear top speed is about 7mph, with the close ratio gears top speed is about 12mph in 1st gear. In 2nd gear top speed is about 20mph.

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Old 08-24-2014, 05:49 PM
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that is my fear with the springs, but he is insistent on trying it. I will have the solid shafts sitting by when I need to pick up the pieces and make it work.

On the motor thank you. I did in to look at the measurement specs on that motor. That is one of the few Neu motors I have not had.

The speed is the easy part. Just dont run in 4s mode. Just run 2s that will give me a mah capacity of, count it, 18,000 mah. Lower voltage lower rpm on motor. With a C rating of 100C on those packs I can easily supply the current.

I thought about an outrunner but to be honest I I showed one I have in one of my 8th scale buggies and I thought he was going to be sick. He just could not wrap his head around it at all. I even powered it up to show him how it all worked and looked. He is a nice guy but not the brightest one. So I gotta keep this simple and clean. I am just going to have all my stand by stuff ready so this weekend when he sees it not working as he envisioned I will just stick my parts on and all will be good.

Thank you again. You have been great. Once this is all done and proven I will PM you a video link to look at.
Old 08-24-2014, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Maj_Overdrive
Btw there's also 2 available gear ratios available for the Summit/ERevo/EMaxx trans. There's close ratio and wide ratio gears, the wide ratio gear set has a slower speed 1st gear. 2nd gear has the same ratio in both gear sets and is actually the same ratio as the single speed transmission.

I did did a quick set of calculations based on stock 6.3" tires, 1600kv on 4s and 16/68 gearing which I believe is the lowest that will fit. With wide ratio gears in the trans and in 1st gear top speed is about 7mph, with the close ratio gears top speed is about 12mph in 1st gear. In 2nd gear top speed is about 20mph.
Any way to lock in one of the gears?
Old 08-25-2014, 05:24 AM
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As if running a vehicle weighing 25lbs or more with a 1/8 brushless system wasn't unusual enough you're going to try it on only 2s?!?! I was already curious how well the low speed would make up for the extra weight but now I'm really curious. This is uncharted territory for me and I've never seen anything like it documented either.

I understand that putting batteries in parellel to increase capacity but I am concerned about the low voltage. Conventional brushless wisdom is that lower kv with higher voltage is more efficient than higher kv with lower voltage assuming the same vehicle weight and top speed. The greater efficiency lowers amp draw increasing runtime. I remember a guy with run times around an hour running a buggy on 8s 3000mah with 1800kv geared for 60mph. Another ran a Slash on 4s 8000mah with about 2000kv and was well north of an hour and a half of runtime before getting bored and quitting. You can't even get half of those run times with normal voltage and kv so doubling Mah wouldn't equal those run times let alone beat them. Then there's the obvious Ohm's law. A motor will draw a certain wattage according to the load placed on it, load being determined by vehicle weight, gearing, terrain etc. Lowering the voltage increases amp draw.

Like I said it's uncharted and undocumented territory for me. I'd assume the low gearing would keep the temps and amp draw about the same as a normal weight vehicle geared for normal speed. That would mean lowering the voltage to 2s would increase the amp draw and temps putting the esc especially at risk. Well definitely keep me updated on how things work out.
Old 08-25-2014, 05:30 AM
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Originally Posted by RURC
Any way to lock in one of the gears?
The trans is shifted by a small servo. Simply shift into the gear you want and disconnect the servo from the reciever if you need the channel on the receiver or want to make sure it's never accidentally shifted. You could also take the trans apart and glue the shifting mechanism in the desired gear. If 2nd gear is what you want converting to a single speed with Revo gears is another option. Btw the single speed gears are metal and basically bulletproof although I've never read about anyone stripping the plastic 2spd gears.
Old 08-25-2014, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Maj_Overdrive
As if running a vehicle weighing 25lbs or more with a 1/8 brushless system wasn't unusual enough you're going to try it on only 2s?!?! I was already curious how well the low speed would make up for the extra weight but now I'm really curious. This is uncharted territory for me and I've never seen anything like it documented either.

I understand that putting batteries in parellel to increase capacity but I am concerned about the low voltage. Conventional brushless wisdom is that lower kv with higher voltage is more efficient than higher kv with lower voltage assuming the same vehicle weight and top speed. The greater efficiency lowers amp draw increasing runtime. I remember a guy with run times around an hour running a buggy on 8s 3000mah with 1800kv geared for 60mph. Another ran a Slash on 4s 8000mah with about 2000kv and was well north of an hour and a half of runtime before getting bored and quitting. You can't even get half of those run times with normal voltage and kv so doubling Mah wouldn't equal those run times let alone beat them. Then there's the obvious Ohm's law. A motor will draw a certain wattage according to the load placed on it, load being determined by vehicle weight, gearing, terrain etc. Lowering the voltage increases amp draw.

Like I said it's uncharted and undocumented territory for me. I'd assume the low gearing would keep the temps and amp draw about the same as a normal weight vehicle geared for normal speed. That would mean lowering the voltage to 2s would increase the amp draw and temps putting the esc especially at risk. Well definitely keep me updated on how things work out.
Yes I know it is a different process than most want but I dont really see an option. The need for stable low speed is high. Had this guy come to me before diving in with both feet this is not the direction this would have gone at all. But I am dealing with the deck I have been given. I will use my Eagle Tree stuff to monitor current draws but in the math part I see max draws on flat smooth surfaces of about 66 amps and a continuous draw of about 17. But this is as you say uncharted territory. I have been building and testing brushless systems since the early 90's. If it were not for people like me and Shawn Palmer and some of the glorious fights with Bob Novak (who tried at every point to stop Shaun and I) brushless in cars would not be where it is and may not have really taken off. Shawn and I were building our own controllers by modding the very weak aircraft stuff that was comming out. Hell I was building my own lipos in '92 because we needed more current than the nimh's could give at that time.

I love a good challenge and by tomorrow night I will have some answers.

It is going to be a bumpy ride.
Old 08-25-2014, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Maj_Overdrive
The trans is shifted by a small servo. Simply shift into the gear you want and disconnect the servo from the reciever if you need the channel on the receiver or want to make sure it's never accidentally shifted. You could also take the trans apart and glue the shifting mechanism in the desired gear. If 2nd gear is what you want converting to a single speed with Revo gears is another option. Btw the single speed gears are metal and basically bulletproof although I've never read about anyone stripping the plastic 2spd gears.
Found this out this morning when I was reading the instructions and driving the truck. I first thought it was an automatic. Glad it is not.
Old 08-25-2014, 01:04 PM
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Well I have no idea who you are but it's nice having someone like you here and posting something like this. Reminds me of the hey day of RC-Monster when people were doing all sorts of crazy experiments with different power systems. Not only was it interesting because nothing was cookie cutter crap, you learned something new all the time because everyone posted results of everything. Not sure what your thoughts are about Castle but having Patrick on the boards there was very informative too.
Old 08-25-2014, 07:55 PM
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OH God. Is RC Monster even still around? the mid 90's were a very vibrant time in RC. All my RC life I have been developing for faster and more power and doing it with less and less. I mean smaller sizing and less weight. Now Patrick was always interesting. I was never a direct employee with him but consulted with all the original stuff. We would test what became the Mamba 25 in an arsenal of Mini T's. We could never find good motors at first. We would use airplane motors most of the time. Avox and Krontronik then started making some nice stuff, but damn were they expensive. Plattenburg was always good but made everything look cheap.The really cool stuff started when the Barbie car came out. A little whiule after that Steve Neu left Plattenburg and then the lid was off and not going to stop. He has personally wound motors for me in his garage in California maybe 50 times. Those were the days.

Then this project came up that gave me unlimited funds and the ability to do literally anything I could come up with.

I have been overseas developing specialized RC stuff for the last 4 years. I was only in contact with my family, as message boards were off limits. My wife and son were able to come with we where ever I was at. You should see some of the battery systems I have been playing with. Picture something the size of a soda can developing up to 96 volts at upwards of 150 amps for i can say 45 minutes. I have the next 6 months to play then back to the bunker as I call it.

What about you what were some of your old projects?
Old 08-26-2014, 04:35 AM
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Yeah RC-Monster is still around, unfortunately it's pretty dead there though.

My projects aren't all that interesting. I'm not that technical of a guy, I just know a bunch of the theory from forums and stuff. You'll never see me building my own controller or going too experimental with electronics. My wackiest combo involved a KB45 1100kv on 8s with an airplane controller in a Savage. I wanted one of Lutach's controllers for that one but ended up with a series of eBay specials instead. I'm the fabricator type though, making and modifying what I can with a Dremel, drill press, welder and other lowly tools. RC doesn't get too much funds either, my house and 1967 Camaro have been taking care of that!

Last edited by Maj_Overdrive; 08-26-2014 at 04:44 AM.
Old 08-27-2014, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Maj_Overdrive
Yeah RC-Monster is still around, unfortunately it's pretty dead there though.

My projects aren't all that interesting. I'm not that technical of a guy, I just know a bunch of the theory from forums and stuff. You'll never see me building my own controller or going too experimental with electronics. My wackiest combo involved a KB45 1100kv on 8s with an airplane controller in a Savage. I wanted one of Lutach's controllers for that one but ended up with a series of eBay specials instead. I'm the fabricator type though, making and modifying what I can with a Dremel, drill press, welder and other lowly tools. RC doesn't get too much funds either, my house and 1967 Camaro have been taking care of that!
That is by far the best way to have fun in this hobby. Hell that is how i did almost everything. The best thing you can buy is an X - Y cross slide vise for your drill press like this.
http://www.harborfreight.com/6-inch-...ise-32997.html

this will give you so much versatility in what you can do. I used one for years till I could afford a Micro Seki CNC. the cross slide vise will also serve you well for many other projects. really get one. If you find a nice one it will have measurements marked and work very fluidly. I bought one from MSC for about $200 but the one I showed you here will also work fine.

You keep up doing what you do. You know your stuff and give very good advice.
Old 08-27-2014, 07:52 PM
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I definitely need a cross slide vise, and a new bigger drill press. But before that I have to get my new garage all setup. I actually had a cross slide vise, but it was a friends. He found a nice one at a garage sale but didn't have a drill press and let me "borrow" it for a few years until he finally bought a drill press of his own. Still pissed he wouldn't sell it to me and took it back!

I've actually been collecting scrap blocks of aluminum from my machine shop customers. One day I'll have some sort of mill or at least some bits to chuck into my drill press. Then I'm probably going to be in trouble and get too into it and want to upgrade! Lol
Old 08-28-2014, 07:18 PM
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If I were you I would get a good 3D printer. That is all I do anymore almost. I have a couple of contacts that can print in metals also.
Old 09-20-2014, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by RURC
If I were you I would get a good 3D printer. That is all I do anymore almost. I have a couple of contacts that can print in metals also.
While a 3D printer does sound like fun, that's a little more out of my league. I dabbled in CAD half a lifetime ago in high school but I'd be learning all over again now. Plus if I'm going to invest that much in a tool it's going to be a mill. A mill would be way more useful for my full size projects and not just rc. But I can think of plenty of fun rc stuff for a 3D printer!

Ok, it's been awhile now, I gotta know how things went running 2s. Did things get hot? All ok?
Old 10-05-2014, 01:39 PM
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I use packing tape around the foam before I put rubber on rim, stops tyres expanding to much and getting all out of balance, works well, 3 layers of packing tape around just the foam.

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