traxxas top fuel
07-30-2009, 05:53 PM
#26
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RE: traxxas top fuel
Extra Oil Doesn't make your engine Last longer or run Cooler
and some more Info here, Car Fuel Facts
and some more Info here, Car Fuel Facts
07-31-2009, 07:34 PM
#28
RE: traxxas top fuel
lol the altitude has nothing to do with what fuel you should run .. Its all about the air pressure, the higher the altitude- the less air particles are in your engine at the same pressure 1 bar or 14psi I think it was. This is why airplane engines need to use forced inductions so they can maintain a constant pressure with varying altitudes.
.. Its all about the air pressure, the higher the altitude- the less air particles are in your engine at the same pressure 1 bar or 14psi I think it was. This is why airplane engines need to use forced inductions so they can maintain a constant pressure with varying altitudes.
08-16-2014, 06:12 PM
#29
Traxxas fuel has 10% oil by volume in it. Everyone knocking the fuel obviously can't tune at all. It is a racing fuel. Do a simple evap test and find out for yourself. Lol at 20%
The whole 8% oil will protect better than say 16%..... Ya right. 30k rpms needs less oil than 12k? More than double the rpms? Sure a car isnt up there all the time.....but it hits thise upper Rs all the time. Especially racing them. It adds up fast. How many people put around at 12k on there revo 3.3? Most guys run cars hard. Especially if its a single speed car. Seems like the majority of people are happy to get 5 gallons on a piston/sleeve. While FAR more people get less than that because they are new to the game. Either way all I read is something is usually broke by 2-3 gallons. Con rod being replaced. Bearings going out every 2-3 gallons with that 8% racing oil. Sure some might get a true 7 + gallons on a piston/sleeve but I bet most don't.
I'm not sure any of that is to brag about when plane guys die before a lot of their engines wear out lol
Lots of people reporting engine time in the 200+ hours vs car guys at what? 25-35 if you did your part?
So what if the engine runs hotter on more oil. I'm sure it'd run even cooler on 2% oil. Does that mean more engine life?
Might be running hotter but I'm sure piston,con rod,bearing life all go way up.
Con rod at 1 gallon after break in? Really? Run more oil. Should help that out.
If its not losing power or sagging/smoke coming from the engine....than its good.
My g3.0 on my firestorm runs well at 16% castor by volume. I found that's what it likes. There's no difference in power than an 8% oil. The only difference being that the 8% will win an idle contest and a runtime contest. Good for racing I guess. But most racers are popping their bearing at 3 gallons and re pinching at 5 maybe. Bearings shouldn't wear out for a really long time. I can only assume running 6-8% oils is what hurting them. I mean really. A properly lubed ball bearing should out last the piston many times over I'd think. The excuse seems to be they spin lots of rpms. Ya. Needs. More oil I'd think. Air cooled 200cc 2 strokes will run 240 at the head easily when ran hard. 280 on these tiny things isn't a problem if the tune is right. The crankcase should be lower than the head temp anyways. Bearings are surely noticeably cooler than right at the glow plug.
The whole 8% oil will protect better than say 16%..... Ya right. 30k rpms needs less oil than 12k? More than double the rpms? Sure a car isnt up there all the time.....but it hits thise upper Rs all the time. Especially racing them. It adds up fast. How many people put around at 12k on there revo 3.3? Most guys run cars hard. Especially if its a single speed car. Seems like the majority of people are happy to get 5 gallons on a piston/sleeve. While FAR more people get less than that because they are new to the game. Either way all I read is something is usually broke by 2-3 gallons. Con rod being replaced. Bearings going out every 2-3 gallons with that 8% racing oil. Sure some might get a true 7 + gallons on a piston/sleeve but I bet most don't.
I'm not sure any of that is to brag about when plane guys die before a lot of their engines wear out lol
Lots of people reporting engine time in the 200+ hours vs car guys at what? 25-35 if you did your part?
So what if the engine runs hotter on more oil. I'm sure it'd run even cooler on 2% oil. Does that mean more engine life?
Might be running hotter but I'm sure piston,con rod,bearing life all go way up.
Con rod at 1 gallon after break in? Really? Run more oil. Should help that out.
If its not losing power or sagging/smoke coming from the engine....than its good.
My g3.0 on my firestorm runs well at 16% castor by volume. I found that's what it likes. There's no difference in power than an 8% oil. The only difference being that the 8% will win an idle contest and a runtime contest. Good for racing I guess. But most racers are popping their bearing at 3 gallons and re pinching at 5 maybe. Bearings shouldn't wear out for a really long time. I can only assume running 6-8% oils is what hurting them. I mean really. A properly lubed ball bearing should out last the piston many times over I'd think. The excuse seems to be they spin lots of rpms. Ya. Needs. More oil I'd think. Air cooled 200cc 2 strokes will run 240 at the head easily when ran hard. 280 on these tiny things isn't a problem if the tune is right. The crankcase should be lower than the head temp anyways. Bearings are surely noticeably cooler than right at the glow plug.
Last edited by rcbence; 08-16-2014 at 06:16 PM.
08-16-2014, 06:29 PM
#31
Myth. All car fuels have the same methanol and nitro basically. All good quality. The only difference is what kind of oil and how much. Other fuels will work in trx engines and top fuel works in other engines. The wetting agents etc is just a selling point. I highly doubt you can tell the difference. My own fuel runs just as good as any and it has the 3 simple ingredients. No additives. I'm willing to bet that top fuel used to have slightly more oil than their power plus. I could be wrong. Either that or they cheated you on nitro and now they don't. Hence a power improvement.
Its one or both of those two. I'm sure of it. Its definitely not a wetting agent giving you all that power.
Same deal with Byron's. They claim they changed the game. All they did was drop their oil 3-4%. Done. That will help give slight power increase but not by much.
Their rtr 16% oil has 13% by volume. I suspect their 11 and 12% oil is also 2-3% less by volume.
So 8-9% and 9-10% by volume is their formula.
The pro blends are gonna be closer to 6%.
Its one or both of those two. I'm sure of it. Its definitely not a wetting agent giving you all that power.
Same deal with Byron's. They claim they changed the game. All they did was drop their oil 3-4%. Done. That will help give slight power increase but not by much.
Their rtr 16% oil has 13% by volume. I suspect their 11 and 12% oil is also 2-3% less by volume.
So 8-9% and 9-10% by volume is their formula.
The pro blends are gonna be closer to 6%.
Last edited by rcbence; 08-16-2014 at 06:45 PM.
08-17-2014, 05:34 AM
#32
Senior Member
I am going to diasgre with you in a huge way...high oil destroys car engines and makes proper tuning impossible.....The worst information that has hurt the nitro hobby is people suggesting newbies run high oil content fuel.....huge mistake !
Also the power and RPM difference in oil contents is massive...a 16% oil will be down 30% power and many thousand RPM over a lower oil 7% fuel.....The high oil will want to detonate and run hot as hell if any attempt is made to fully tune the engine....I have a legitimate dyno and have tested this many times over...not speaking out my ass...
If a offroad racer was to try to tune to performance and use a 16% oil fuel the engine would not last a day..it would detonate itself to death...as well be severely down on power and RPM
Dirt is what kills offroad engines...... not lack of oil...
rapid acceleration is what kills engine bearings in offroad engines...not lack of oil
Airplanes have props that heavily load the engines and prevent violent RPM spikes....car engines do not have that..they see violent RPM spikes that kill bearings and hurts pistons......
Traxxass fuel is a horrendously bad product, it will not run correctly no mater who tunes it..... running Top fuel back to back with Werks even a deaf person could hear the difference...the werks will be crisp and clean, the traxass will be broken and sputtery
HIgh oil has no place in our car engine whatsoever...... makes engines run terrible, tuning is impossible, engines detonate like crazy and power and RPM is severely depleted...... A quality fuel with low oil such as Werks is far more ideal and will give much better engine life and much broader tuning window.... the difference is massive.. ( Werks has 7% oil and it protects 10000X better then top fuel ever could )
Oil is a contaminate and the more of it in th fuel the leaner the mixture needs to be run and the hotter the engine will run, this in itself insit do bad but the extra heat and contamination causes excessive detonation.....The only way high oil runs is if he mixture is kept rich and the negine is never allowed to fully clear out, it will need to always run with a rich sputter and will never get that crisp on song 2 stroke sound...it will always sound like a misfiring Briggs and stratton.......if any attempt is made to tune further the engine will lose stability
Also the power and RPM difference in oil contents is massive...a 16% oil will be down 30% power and many thousand RPM over a lower oil 7% fuel.....The high oil will want to detonate and run hot as hell if any attempt is made to fully tune the engine....I have a legitimate dyno and have tested this many times over...not speaking out my ass...
If a offroad racer was to try to tune to performance and use a 16% oil fuel the engine would not last a day..it would detonate itself to death...as well be severely down on power and RPM
Dirt is what kills offroad engines...... not lack of oil...
rapid acceleration is what kills engine bearings in offroad engines...not lack of oil
Airplanes have props that heavily load the engines and prevent violent RPM spikes....car engines do not have that..they see violent RPM spikes that kill bearings and hurts pistons......
Traxxass fuel is a horrendously bad product, it will not run correctly no mater who tunes it..... running Top fuel back to back with Werks even a deaf person could hear the difference...the werks will be crisp and clean, the traxass will be broken and sputtery
HIgh oil has no place in our car engine whatsoever...... makes engines run terrible, tuning is impossible, engines detonate like crazy and power and RPM is severely depleted...... A quality fuel with low oil such as Werks is far more ideal and will give much better engine life and much broader tuning window.... the difference is massive.. ( Werks has 7% oil and it protects 10000X better then top fuel ever could )
Oil is a contaminate and the more of it in th fuel the leaner the mixture needs to be run and the hotter the engine will run, this in itself insit do bad but the extra heat and contamination causes excessive detonation.....The only way high oil runs is if he mixture is kept rich and the negine is never allowed to fully clear out, it will need to always run with a rich sputter and will never get that crisp on song 2 stroke sound...it will always sound like a misfiring Briggs and stratton.......if any attempt is made to tune further the engine will lose stability
08-21-2014, 08:30 AM
#33
I have used Morgan's Omega 10% with two ounces of extra castor oil added. I have used this fuel in my T-Maxx 2.5 since new. I am on my 16th gallon of Omega on this engine and it is still going strong. If you want your engine to last, use xtra castor oil. I am proving it works. I bash, not race and the engine is good. My T-Maxx will do 50 kilometers per hour in second gear on this fuel. I am on the original piston and liner and same rod and bearings. My OS .18 is heading in this direction as well. I have been using R/C car engines since 1971 when we put heat sinks on airplane engines.
Last edited by controlliner; 08-21-2014 at 08:32 AM. Reason: sp
08-22-2014, 02:34 AM
#34
Senior Member
We have come a very very very long way since 1972........ props to you for making due with such a low nitro fuel.... 
However with that being said there is no comparison between your fuel and my fuel...If we were to take 2 identical engines, and 2 identical hobbyists with the only difference being one used my fuel and one used your fuel you would see the user with my fuel would have far more success.... What you would see is the lower oil higher nitro fuel would tune in much easier, idle much much better and obviously perform much better.as well...The perrformance difference will be massive but not as much as the tuning difference between the two.... It was just last week a new guy showed up at my track..... bought a new Werks B2 for a second hand buggy he bought...LHS sold him a gallon of Sidewinder Backyard basher.. 20% nitro, 16% oil......... engine would run, but barely....sounded like a misfiring Brigg's and Stratton...Even with me tuning it would not run correctly, it would never fully clear out on the top end... always could detect a misfire in the exhaust note............. Anyways after about 10 minutes of trying I convinced the fellow to buy a gallon of Werks 30% ( 30% nitro, 7 % oil )... Immediately the difference was audible..engine started the idle clean and the exhaust note on the topside went up several octaves and no longer had the misfiring sound...Unfortunately this hobby store has been selling this fuel for a decade ruining nitro for thousands of users .. Anyways int he end high oil fuels may run in these land engines, but they don't run very well..... just run them back to back with a fuel like Werks and you would see the difference for yourself....
Anyways that you are able to find 18 gallons of enjoyment from a stock 2.5 tells me we are two very different breeds of hobbyists... for me a stock 2.5 lost its appeal after about half a tank as it was so underpowered... definitely not anything I would prolong for 18 gallons....
I do race, I run the fastest of the fast of offroad nitro engines, I subject them to the extreme scale of pressure and wear and for many years have pushed the envelopes of performance and have learned what it takes to make these engines last and stay reliable under the most extreme usages.... Obviously more can go wrong with a 40 000 RPM race engine being used in competition.then a 2.5 RTR putting around on 10% nitro.. So anyways for me I will stick to my guns on this as if I can make my engines last like I do , doing what I do then I must have something right..... I am pushing my engines much harder and have zero wear issues at all....watch this video...this is a .21...making 2.2 HP..... idling at 9000 RPM, peaking on the track at 42 000 RPM ( 42 MPH , 67 KMH ) ..single speed car..... running at 260-300F.......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4QpcI5PO2Q
here is pictures of inside the engine on Werks fuel..... very high grade oil that doesn't burn off, fuel is almost smokeless as the oil has such a high flashpoint....7% oil only, but open the engine up and she's loaded with sticky yellow oil...as i say come quite a ways since 1972.......
However with that being said there is no comparison between your fuel and my fuel...If we were to take 2 identical engines, and 2 identical hobbyists with the only difference being one used my fuel and one used your fuel you would see the user with my fuel would have far more success.... What you would see is the lower oil higher nitro fuel would tune in much easier, idle much much better and obviously perform much better.as well...The perrformance difference will be massive but not as much as the tuning difference between the two.... It was just last week a new guy showed up at my track..... bought a new Werks B2 for a second hand buggy he bought...LHS sold him a gallon of Sidewinder Backyard basher.. 20% nitro, 16% oil......... engine would run, but barely....sounded like a misfiring Brigg's and Stratton...Even with me tuning it would not run correctly, it would never fully clear out on the top end... always could detect a misfire in the exhaust note............. Anyways after about 10 minutes of trying I convinced the fellow to buy a gallon of Werks 30% ( 30% nitro, 7 % oil )... Immediately the difference was audible..engine started the idle clean and the exhaust note on the topside went up several octaves and no longer had the misfiring sound...Unfortunately this hobby store has been selling this fuel for a decade ruining nitro for thousands of users .. Anyways int he end high oil fuels may run in these land engines, but they don't run very well..... just run them back to back with a fuel like Werks and you would see the difference for yourself....
Anyways that you are able to find 18 gallons of enjoyment from a stock 2.5 tells me we are two very different breeds of hobbyists... for me a stock 2.5 lost its appeal after about half a tank as it was so underpowered... definitely not anything I would prolong for 18 gallons....
I do race, I run the fastest of the fast of offroad nitro engines, I subject them to the extreme scale of pressure and wear and for many years have pushed the envelopes of performance and have learned what it takes to make these engines last and stay reliable under the most extreme usages.... Obviously more can go wrong with a 40 000 RPM race engine being used in competition.then a 2.5 RTR putting around on 10% nitro.. So anyways for me I will stick to my guns on this as if I can make my engines last like I do , doing what I do then I must have something right..... I am pushing my engines much harder and have zero wear issues at all....watch this video...this is a .21...making 2.2 HP..... idling at 9000 RPM, peaking on the track at 42 000 RPM ( 42 MPH , 67 KMH ) ..single speed car..... running at 260-300F.......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4QpcI5PO2Q
here is pictures of inside the engine on Werks fuel..... very high grade oil that doesn't burn off, fuel is almost smokeless as the oil has such a high flashpoint....7% oil only, but open the engine up and she's loaded with sticky yellow oil...as i say come quite a ways since 1972.......
Last edited by supertib; 08-22-2014 at 03:39 AM.
08-26-2014, 12:26 PM
#35
Well I don't see how top fuel could be sooooo much worse than most fuels being it has 10% oil by volume?
It has nitro and methanol......so that leaves the oil package.
My 2 trucks are a savage 4.6 with an lrp .28 and a stock firestorm.
The firestorm does alright on the 16%. I mix my own right now. It doesn't really have a problem when putting around than gunning it.
But my lrp.28 is a bit different. It runs great and runs clean with massive power on my 20/16 fuel.....
Only thing is if I start getting easy on it....and do a little bit of monster trucking it tends to load up. Then I have to give wot blips CTO clear out. Once clear it has great power. But I admit that I'd like to be able to use it as a truck and not just going back and forth at full throttle.
I run 20% nitro and a mc59 plug. Ran close to the same with a medium as well.
I want them to last a long time so that's why I'm mixing 16%.
I've found with less oil the HSN needs leaned out period.
So more oil requires a richer needle to get more methanol in it.
But I see you point about trying to lean it for max crispness.
Can't do that obviously.
It was 90 yesterday and the lrp was running at 270-280. Tuned for power and running hard wot runs.
Like I said if my throttle goes steady for a few seconds....then I gun it... It tends to load up and sound rich.
What % do you suggest? I use klotz benol. I'm not gonna get into what oil just how much for both my trucks?
16 gallons is probably not doable with 6% oil right?
I'd like to believe someone when they say how much fuel is run.
Here's a video of my lrp savage on 16% benol by volume.
When run hard it sounds good doesn't it?
Savage lrp.28: http://youtu.be/0Q0Wk27O0ew
It has nitro and methanol......so that leaves the oil package.
My 2 trucks are a savage 4.6 with an lrp .28 and a stock firestorm.
The firestorm does alright on the 16%. I mix my own right now. It doesn't really have a problem when putting around than gunning it.
But my lrp.28 is a bit different. It runs great and runs clean with massive power on my 20/16 fuel.....
Only thing is if I start getting easy on it....and do a little bit of monster trucking it tends to load up. Then I have to give wot blips CTO clear out. Once clear it has great power. But I admit that I'd like to be able to use it as a truck and not just going back and forth at full throttle.
I run 20% nitro and a mc59 plug. Ran close to the same with a medium as well.
I want them to last a long time so that's why I'm mixing 16%.
I've found with less oil the HSN needs leaned out period.
So more oil requires a richer needle to get more methanol in it.
But I see you point about trying to lean it for max crispness.
Can't do that obviously.
It was 90 yesterday and the lrp was running at 270-280. Tuned for power and running hard wot runs.
Like I said if my throttle goes steady for a few seconds....then I gun it... It tends to load up and sound rich.
What % do you suggest? I use klotz benol. I'm not gonna get into what oil just how much for both my trucks?
16 gallons is probably not doable with 6% oil right?
I'd like to believe someone when they say how much fuel is run.
Here's a video of my lrp savage on 16% benol by volume.
When run hard it sounds good doesn't it?
Savage lrp.28: http://youtu.be/0Q0Wk27O0ew
08-26-2014, 12:43 PM
#36
Tried 10% briefly in the savage once. Wasn't really testing for loading up though. Just riding like in the vids. Constant on and off hard throttle.
The power difference with 6% oil was hardly noticeable at all.
Like I said....i didn't test for loading up. It might have performed better in that regard. But top speed and rpm sounded similar.
So I don't get it. You say it needs leaned out. I say it needs richened with more oil. I know it does. 6% oil in a 16% oil tune simply won't run. Needs leaned out.
Hoc come plane engines don't load up terribly if just going 1/4 throttle or idlieng a long time? They run 15%+ by volume
Firestorm on same 20/16 and mc59 plug.
It for some reason won't load up near as bad on the same fuel. What causes this?
How's she run? Temps are 260 ish with 80s for weather. I had bald tires in this video. Litreraly.
The power difference with 6% oil was hardly noticeable at all.
Like I said....i didn't test for loading up. It might have performed better in that regard. But top speed and rpm sounded similar.
So I don't get it. You say it needs leaned out. I say it needs richened with more oil. I know it does. 6% oil in a 16% oil tune simply won't run. Needs leaned out.
Hoc come plane engines don't load up terribly if just going 1/4 throttle or idlieng a long time? They run 15%+ by volume
Firestorm on same 20/16 and mc59 plug.
It for some reason won't load up near as bad on the same fuel. What causes this?
How's she run? Temps are 260 ish with 80s for weather. I had bald tires in this video. Litreraly.
Last edited by rcbence; 08-26-2014 at 12:46 PM.
08-26-2014, 12:50 PM
#37
Senior Member
Well I don't see how top fuel could be sooooo much worse than most fuels being it has 10% oil by volume?
It has nitro and methanol......so that leaves the oil package.
My 2 trucks are a savage 4.6 with an lrp .28 and a stock firestorm.
The firestorm does alright on the 16%. I mix my own right now. It doesn't really have a problem when putting around than gunning it.
But my lrp.28 is a bit different. It runs great and runs clean with massive power on my 20/16 fuel.....
Only thing is if I start getting easy on it....and do a little bit of monster trucking it tends to load up. Then I have to give wot blips CTO clear out. Once clear it has great power. But I admit that I'd like to be able to use it as a truck and not just going back and forth at full throttle.
I run 20% nitro and a mc59 plug. Ran close to the same with a medium as well.
I want them to last a long time so that's why I'm mixing 16%.
I've found with less oil the HSN needs leaned out period.
So more oil requires a richer needle to get more methanol in it.
But I see you point about trying to lean it for max crispness.
Can't do that obviously.
It was 90 yesterday and the lrp was running at 270-280. Tuned for power and running hard wot runs.
Like I said if my throttle goes steady for a few seconds....then I gun it... It tends to load up and sound rich.
What % do you suggest? I use klotz benol. I'm not gonna get into what oil just how much for both my trucks?
16 gallons is probably not doable with 6% oil right?
I'd like to believe someone when they say how much fuel is run.
Here's a video of my lrp savage on 16% benol by volume.
When run hard it sounds good doesn't it?
Savage lrp.28: http://youtu.be/0Q0Wk27O0ew
It has nitro and methanol......so that leaves the oil package.
My 2 trucks are a savage 4.6 with an lrp .28 and a stock firestorm.
The firestorm does alright on the 16%. I mix my own right now. It doesn't really have a problem when putting around than gunning it.
But my lrp.28 is a bit different. It runs great and runs clean with massive power on my 20/16 fuel.....
Only thing is if I start getting easy on it....and do a little bit of monster trucking it tends to load up. Then I have to give wot blips CTO clear out. Once clear it has great power. But I admit that I'd like to be able to use it as a truck and not just going back and forth at full throttle.
I run 20% nitro and a mc59 plug. Ran close to the same with a medium as well.
I want them to last a long time so that's why I'm mixing 16%.
I've found with less oil the HSN needs leaned out period.
So more oil requires a richer needle to get more methanol in it.
But I see you point about trying to lean it for max crispness.
Can't do that obviously.
It was 90 yesterday and the lrp was running at 270-280. Tuned for power and running hard wot runs.
Like I said if my throttle goes steady for a few seconds....then I gun it... It tends to load up and sound rich.
What % do you suggest? I use klotz benol. I'm not gonna get into what oil just how much for both my trucks?
16 gallons is probably not doable with 6% oil right?
I'd like to believe someone when they say how much fuel is run.
Here's a video of my lrp savage on 16% benol by volume.
When run hard it sounds good doesn't it?
Savage lrp.28: http://youtu.be/0Q0Wk27O0ew
Your lean with a high idle on a relatively cold unloaded engine......... would be Okay for putting around short term like you are, but not for continuous load over extended time ....continuous load for a tank or so would leave the engine pinging and going thermal Your idle is already climbing from heat and your only running for 46 seconds on video with very limited burst of trigger........I would suspect A 10 minute run under load would leave that engine sounding like a goat being crucified.... A Savage is so tipsy and top heavy its hard to really continually load the engine without the truck wanting to flip over...But from the little bit of juice you did hit I can hear the idle climb as a response ... Which for me means its a unsustainable tune..at least for the type of loads and RPM I am used to putting on these engines...........
..
08-26-2014, 01:03 PM
#38
Senior Member
Tried 10% briefly in the savage once. Wasn't really testing for loading up though. Just riding like in the vids. Constant on and off hard throttle.
The power difference with 6% oil was hardly noticeable at all.
Like I said....i didn't test for loading up. It might have performed better in that regard. But top speed and rpm sounded similar.
So I don't get it. You say it needs leaned out. I say it needs richened with more oil. I know it does. 6% oil in a 16% oil tune simply won't run. Needs leaned out.
Hoc come plane engines don't load up terribly if just going 1/4 throttle or idlieng a long time? They run 15%+ by volume
Firestorm on same 20/16 and mc59 plug.
It for some reason won't load up near as bad on the same fuel. What causes this?
How's she run? Temps are 260 ish with 80s for weather. I had bald tires in this video. Litreraly.
The power difference with 6% oil was hardly noticeable at all.
Like I said....i didn't test for loading up. It might have performed better in that regard. But top speed and rpm sounded similar.
So I don't get it. You say it needs leaned out. I say it needs richened with more oil. I know it does. 6% oil in a 16% oil tune simply won't run. Needs leaned out.
Hoc come plane engines don't load up terribly if just going 1/4 throttle or idlieng a long time? They run 15%+ by volume
Firestorm on same 20/16 and mc59 plug.
It for some reason won't load up near as bad on the same fuel. What causes this?
How's she run? Temps are 260 ish with 80s for weather. I had bald tires in this video. Litreraly.
08-26-2014, 02:20 PM
#39
Well the idle was set a bit high and it was towards the end of the tank.
It dips down on idle after 8 seconds or do. Its on rich side not lean.
It was already 280 in the vid for temp.
Yes it is tipsy.
The main Q is will running 10-12% oil make it so it doesn't load up badly when not hard on it.
And why is my firestorm not doing that?
My lsn seems about right
It dips down on idle after 8 seconds or do. Its on rich side not lean.
It was already 280 in the vid for temp.
Yes it is tipsy.
The main Q is will running 10-12% oil make it so it doesn't load up badly when not hard on it.
And why is my firestorm not doing that?
My lsn seems about right
08-27-2014, 04:15 AM
#40
Senior Member
yes higher oil causes a load up..... also causes excessive heat and lack of performance....
And considering how light your running to be at 280 is not good..If you were using Werks you would struggle to hit 200 doing what your doing........As well you would have a pile more power and a muich broader tuning window.... that your at 280 doing such light runningis scary..if I grabbed that trigger and drove I would have you over 400 in less then 2 minutes.....unsustainable tune and exactly why I dislike high oil.........
High oil sucks and offers no advantages, only disadvantages.... excessive heat, detonation, crappy idle, low power
And Traxxass fuel is absolute junk..... hideously low quality product...recycled methanol, cheap oils, high water content... junk.... anyone wanting success in nitro needs to stay clear of that trash fuel...shame on you traxxass for putting out such rubbish..you have ruined nitro for thousands of users because of your craptacular fuel !
And considering how light your running to be at 280 is not good..If you were using Werks you would struggle to hit 200 doing what your doing........As well you would have a pile more power and a muich broader tuning window.... that your at 280 doing such light runningis scary..if I grabbed that trigger and drove I would have you over 400 in less then 2 minutes.....unsustainable tune and exactly why I dislike high oil.........
High oil sucks and offers no advantages, only disadvantages.... excessive heat, detonation, crappy idle, low power
And Traxxass fuel is absolute junk..... hideously low quality product...recycled methanol, cheap oils, high water content... junk.... anyone wanting success in nitro needs to stay clear of that trash fuel...shame on you traxxass for putting out such rubbish..you have ruined nitro for thousands of users because of your craptacular fuel !
Last edited by supertib; 08-27-2014 at 04:20 AM.
08-27-2014, 07:11 PM
#41
What is it with the lrp. I tried 10% oil and it runs the same temps. Powers basically the same. An improvement I saw is that when it loads up its not as bad with 16% oil.
What makes the idle dip down after some throttle? It constantly goes back and forth between normal idle and like a half idle.
Is it the benol oil? Too low nitro? Too hot plug? (Mc59)
I've yet to get the reliability of big blocks like my trusty firestorm.
It runs just fine on 16% oil......and I'm sure thered be some improvement with lower oil.
That low idle dip drives me nuts. Its unreliable even with 10% oil. The original f4.6 engine had a weird idle dip problem too
What makes the idle dip down after some throttle? It constantly goes back and forth between normal idle and like a half idle.
Is it the benol oil? Too low nitro? Too hot plug? (Mc59)
I've yet to get the reliability of big blocks like my trusty firestorm.
It runs just fine on 16% oil......and I'm sure thered be some improvement with lower oil.
That low idle dip drives me nuts. Its unreliable even with 10% oil. The original f4.6 engine had a weird idle dip problem too
08-29-2014, 05:54 AM
#42
Senior Member
In the end your fuel is very poor and the cause of your issues... all that type of oil needs extremely high temps to burn.... exactly why I hate high oil..... and if you tried to actually load that engine it would be over 400 degrees and detonating like crazy...... In the end if your happy that's all that matters...but don't confuse your happiness with how badly high oil fuels affect performance...Back to back against Werks fuel you would end up laughing at yourself for wasting all that time running the swill you run, the difference back to back would be massive...
08-29-2014, 06:36 PM
#44
I've ran werks. Any synthetic/castor blend at 6% is liable to run good.
Doing more research.....it might be my oil choice that's causing the load up. It improved when I went down to 10% oil. But I'm not willing to go to 6% to get it not to load up. If on the pipe all the time it ran in a clear 2 stroke with 16% oil.
I couldn't really give full throttle and show all the power it had. It just goes on the lid and slides 10 feet lol.
Both my previous engines lost all pinch within 2 gallons on werks fuel. I'm sure some of its my fault.....but 30k+ with 6% oil and I doubt very many pass 3 gallons if they are lucky.
No oils good enough to slow you to drop the oil% by more than half.
I'll look into something else and keep the castor to 3% max or so. I have a feeling its the straight castor that's loading it up when not on the pipe.
I doubt you would get it to 400 degrees. Ive rode that thing hard doing wot runs it stays steady.
Since when did a yellowish oil left behind tell you how well it protects at 40000 rpm?
The stuff starts turning yellow and stains everything once exposed to open air and light.
Its just easier to see that bright yellow.
The fuel did run good while the engine lasted I'll give it that.
Only rand a hair cooler maybe compared to sidewinder 12% oil. Never saw low 200s when tuned right. It went up to the 230-240+ easily.
A lot of the aero guys have reported engines at wot running low 300s. And they last much longer than a car engine running 220 on a 6% racing oil.
I'll say it again. My firestorm is acceptable on straight 16% castor.
The lrp I don't get. It loves to load up too fast even on 10% oil. Ive played with hot and medium plugs and nitro contents. Same. Which leaves me to the oil package.
My methanol is high quality.
I'm not sure I believe top fuel is made with re cycled methanol with loads of water in it?
I doubt their quality is that poor. They obviously use one of the big name brands to mix their fuel to their specs.
I'm wondering if its a very high castor content that they use. Some of the big block just don't seem to like it in car engines I suppose.
If it was 80/20 I doubt people would complain on the performance of it. Could be wrong though.
Its funny how it has a reputation to have 16+% oil when its 10.
I did the test on werks. Twice and got closer to 6% than seven. But whatever. It has very little castor in it and probably a more expensive synthetic. Its hard to even find it anywhere. Castor has a distinct smell. Werks smells more fruity or something.
Same with OD. Expect it smells more like firewerks and not castor. Of course they claim 8% all synthetic oil.
People are so worried about an engine looking perfectly clean inside. I don't get it. The fuel will wear your engine and bearings before you even worry about some residue lol.
I get that planes are under loads.....but we spin more than twice the rpm.
Be honest. How long till something give in your racing engine? Rods, pistons, bearings?
12 hours maybe 16 if very lucky?
I guess that's good. But I don't race.
I think most people claiming how many gallons they get are like the same who claim mpg on their car.
Got 50mpg once going down hill in neutral for 300 miles.....so heres my average lol.
Doing more research.....it might be my oil choice that's causing the load up. It improved when I went down to 10% oil. But I'm not willing to go to 6% to get it not to load up. If on the pipe all the time it ran in a clear 2 stroke with 16% oil.
I couldn't really give full throttle and show all the power it had. It just goes on the lid and slides 10 feet lol.
Both my previous engines lost all pinch within 2 gallons on werks fuel. I'm sure some of its my fault.....but 30k+ with 6% oil and I doubt very many pass 3 gallons if they are lucky.
No oils good enough to slow you to drop the oil% by more than half.
I'll look into something else and keep the castor to 3% max or so. I have a feeling its the straight castor that's loading it up when not on the pipe.
I doubt you would get it to 400 degrees. Ive rode that thing hard doing wot runs it stays steady.
Since when did a yellowish oil left behind tell you how well it protects at 40000 rpm?
The stuff starts turning yellow and stains everything once exposed to open air and light.
Its just easier to see that bright yellow.
The fuel did run good while the engine lasted I'll give it that.
Only rand a hair cooler maybe compared to sidewinder 12% oil. Never saw low 200s when tuned right. It went up to the 230-240+ easily.
A lot of the aero guys have reported engines at wot running low 300s. And they last much longer than a car engine running 220 on a 6% racing oil.
I'll say it again. My firestorm is acceptable on straight 16% castor.
The lrp I don't get. It loves to load up too fast even on 10% oil. Ive played with hot and medium plugs and nitro contents. Same. Which leaves me to the oil package.
My methanol is high quality.
I'm not sure I believe top fuel is made with re cycled methanol with loads of water in it?
I doubt their quality is that poor. They obviously use one of the big name brands to mix their fuel to their specs.
I'm wondering if its a very high castor content that they use. Some of the big block just don't seem to like it in car engines I suppose.
If it was 80/20 I doubt people would complain on the performance of it. Could be wrong though.
Its funny how it has a reputation to have 16+% oil when its 10.
I did the test on werks. Twice and got closer to 6% than seven. But whatever. It has very little castor in it and probably a more expensive synthetic. Its hard to even find it anywhere. Castor has a distinct smell. Werks smells more fruity or something.
Same with OD. Expect it smells more like firewerks and not castor. Of course they claim 8% all synthetic oil.
People are so worried about an engine looking perfectly clean inside. I don't get it. The fuel will wear your engine and bearings before you even worry about some residue lol.
I get that planes are under loads.....but we spin more than twice the rpm.
Be honest. How long till something give in your racing engine? Rods, pistons, bearings?
12 hours maybe 16 if very lucky?
I guess that's good. But I don't race.
I think most people claiming how many gallons they get are like the same who claim mpg on their car.
Got 50mpg once going down hill in neutral for 300 miles.....so heres my average lol.
Last edited by rcbence; 08-29-2014 at 06:52 PM.
08-30-2014, 08:47 PM
#45
Senior Member
I've ran werks. Any synthetic/castor blend at 6% is liable to run good.
Doing more research.....it might be my oil choice that's causing the load up. It improved when I went down to 10% oil. But I'm not willing to go to 6% to get it not to load up. If on the pipe all the time it ran in a clear 2 stroke with 16% oil.
I couldn't really give full throttle and show all the power it had. It just goes on the lid and slides 10 feet lol.
Both my previous engines lost all pinch within 2 gallons on werks fuel. I'm sure some of its my fault.....but 30k+ with 6% oil and I doubt very many pass 3 gallons if they are lucky.
No oils good enough to slow you to drop the oil% by more than half.
I'll look into something else and keep the castor to 3% max or so. I have a feeling its the straight castor that's loading it up when not on the pipe.
I doubt you would get it to 400 degrees. Ive rode that thing hard doing wot runs it stays steady.
Since when did a yellowish oil left behind tell you how well it protects at 40000 rpm?
The stuff starts turning yellow and stains everything once exposed to open air and light.
Its just easier to see that bright yellow.
The fuel did run good while the engine lasted I'll give it that.
Only rand a hair cooler maybe compared to sidewinder 12% oil. Never saw low 200s when tuned right. It went up to the 230-240+ easily.
A lot of the aero guys have reported engines at wot running low 300s. And they last much longer than a car engine running 220 on a 6% racing oil.
I'll say it again. My firestorm is acceptable on straight 16% castor.
The lrp I don't get. It loves to load up too fast even on 10% oil. Ive played with hot and medium plugs and nitro contents. Same. Which leaves me to the oil package.
My methanol is high quality.
I'm not sure I believe top fuel is made with re cycled methanol with loads of water in it?
I doubt their quality is that poor. They obviously use one of the big name brands to mix their fuel to their specs.
I'm wondering if its a very high castor content that they use. Some of the big block just don't seem to like it in car engines I suppose.
If it was 80/20 I doubt people would complain on the performance of it. Could be wrong though.
Its funny how it has a reputation to have 16+% oil when its 10.
I did the test on werks. Twice and got closer to 6% than seven. But whatever. It has very little castor in it and probably a more expensive synthetic. Its hard to even find it anywhere. Castor has a distinct smell. Werks smells more fruity or something.
Same with OD. Expect it smells more like firewerks and not castor. Of course they claim 8% all synthetic oil.
People are so worried about an engine looking perfectly clean inside. I don't get it. The fuel will wear your engine and bearings before you even worry about some residue lol.
I get that planes are under loads.....but we spin more than twice the rpm.
Be honest. How long till something give in your racing engine? Rods, pistons, bearings?
12 hours maybe 16 if very lucky?
I guess that's good. But I don't race.
I think most people claiming how many gallons they get are like the same who claim mpg on their car.
Got 50mpg once going down hill in neutral for 300 miles.....so heres my average lol.
Doing more research.....it might be my oil choice that's causing the load up. It improved when I went down to 10% oil. But I'm not willing to go to 6% to get it not to load up. If on the pipe all the time it ran in a clear 2 stroke with 16% oil.
I couldn't really give full throttle and show all the power it had. It just goes on the lid and slides 10 feet lol.
Both my previous engines lost all pinch within 2 gallons on werks fuel. I'm sure some of its my fault.....but 30k+ with 6% oil and I doubt very many pass 3 gallons if they are lucky.
No oils good enough to slow you to drop the oil% by more than half.
I'll look into something else and keep the castor to 3% max or so. I have a feeling its the straight castor that's loading it up when not on the pipe.
I doubt you would get it to 400 degrees. Ive rode that thing hard doing wot runs it stays steady.
Since when did a yellowish oil left behind tell you how well it protects at 40000 rpm?
The stuff starts turning yellow and stains everything once exposed to open air and light.
Its just easier to see that bright yellow.
The fuel did run good while the engine lasted I'll give it that.
Only rand a hair cooler maybe compared to sidewinder 12% oil. Never saw low 200s when tuned right. It went up to the 230-240+ easily.
A lot of the aero guys have reported engines at wot running low 300s. And they last much longer than a car engine running 220 on a 6% racing oil.
I'll say it again. My firestorm is acceptable on straight 16% castor.
The lrp I don't get. It loves to load up too fast even on 10% oil. Ive played with hot and medium plugs and nitro contents. Same. Which leaves me to the oil package.
My methanol is high quality.
I'm not sure I believe top fuel is made with re cycled methanol with loads of water in it?
I doubt their quality is that poor. They obviously use one of the big name brands to mix their fuel to their specs.
I'm wondering if its a very high castor content that they use. Some of the big block just don't seem to like it in car engines I suppose.
If it was 80/20 I doubt people would complain on the performance of it. Could be wrong though.
Its funny how it has a reputation to have 16+% oil when its 10.
I did the test on werks. Twice and got closer to 6% than seven. But whatever. It has very little castor in it and probably a more expensive synthetic. Its hard to even find it anywhere. Castor has a distinct smell. Werks smells more fruity or something.
Same with OD. Expect it smells more like firewerks and not castor. Of course they claim 8% all synthetic oil.
People are so worried about an engine looking perfectly clean inside. I don't get it. The fuel will wear your engine and bearings before you even worry about some residue lol.
I get that planes are under loads.....but we spin more than twice the rpm.
Be honest. How long till something give in your racing engine? Rods, pistons, bearings?
12 hours maybe 16 if very lucky?
I guess that's good. But I don't race.
I think most people claiming how many gallons they get are like the same who claim mpg on their car.
Got 50mpg once going down hill in neutral for 300 miles.....so heres my average lol.
At the end of the day what would I know about nitro and fuels that you don't already know !
08-31-2014, 01:38 PM
#46
Not much. Because my firestorm hit 15000rpm and reaches over 400 degrees with pits from detonation all due to high oil!
Let me do another much higher quality vid of 2 full tanks mostly at full throttle.
Let's see if it over heats and cant hit the high note at wot.
It know it won't but I'll have to show you a better vid on 16% oil.20% nitro.
There's no detonation at all. And it runs consistent thru hard running.
Can't say that yet a out the lrp. Have know idea what its problem is. I'm not so sure its the fuel anymore.
Anyways, I'll get a vid soon. All your claims I'll disprove about detonation and overheating and not being able to tune it in.
Let me do another much higher quality vid of 2 full tanks mostly at full throttle.
Let's see if it over heats and cant hit the high note at wot.
It know it won't but I'll have to show you a better vid on 16% oil.20% nitro.
There's no detonation at all. And it runs consistent thru hard running.
Can't say that yet a out the lrp. Have know idea what its problem is. I'm not so sure its the fuel anymore.
Anyways, I'll get a vid soon. All your claims I'll disprove about detonation and overheating and not being able to tune it in.
09-01-2014, 05:51 PM
#48
Ran 1 tank prior the vid. Take my word for it. Filled up while running than started the vid. Low 80s outside. Temps were 240-260. Almost cursed when I hit bricks at speed. My bad. She's fine though. Had another nice tumble also. Lsn about 1/8 too rich otherwise tuned.
Would of went longer but I guess I didn't glue my new tires good enough. Blew the bead and had to stop.
Temps near end of tanks are 240s usually. 260 or so after some hard wot.
16% straight benol by volume. Tunes easy. Has lots of power.
I want to try the klotz lite techniplate. Seems its designed around glow engines. I'm thinking 15% lite+3% benol. See if we can get her running even better with a good dominate synthetic.
Enjoy.
Firestorm 10t: http://youtu.be/g_gv9x1ZkVA
Would of went longer but I guess I didn't glue my new tires good enough. Blew the bead and had to stop.
Temps near end of tanks are 240s usually. 260 or so after some hard wot.
16% straight benol by volume. Tunes easy. Has lots of power.
I want to try the klotz lite techniplate. Seems its designed around glow engines. I'm thinking 15% lite+3% benol. See if we can get her running even better with a good dominate synthetic.
Enjoy.
Firestorm 10t: http://youtu.be/g_gv9x1ZkVA
Last edited by rcbence; 09-01-2014 at 05:56 PM.
09-01-2014, 06:16 PM
#49
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: sterling heights,
MI
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nice video- makes me almost want to get back into nitro. I never had any issues with tuning or power while running "high" content oil. I will say this though, be prepared for a lengthy rebuttal from you know who.
even when I ran my Thunder Tigre pro .70- that motor only made more power when you fed it more fuel. there were dual plug buttons out on midnightmadness(there's an old one) because one plug couldn't keep up but the motor wanted more.
id like to hear how oil content causes detonation.
even when I ran my Thunder Tigre pro .70- that motor only made more power when you fed it more fuel. there were dual plug buttons out on midnightmadness(there's an old one) because one plug couldn't keep up but the motor wanted more.
id like to hear how oil content causes detonation.
09-01-2014, 06:42 PM
#50
Thanks man. Back on topic......I've never had a problem on the top fuel power plus. Its weird how on forums you'll always get two completely
Different opinions on the same product. Miles may vary I guess.
I can see what he's saying about higher oil. If temps did get to 400 we would have a problem.
But I couldn't get it much over 260 while hard at wot. Its steady after back to back tanks.
I totally understand why you'd want 6-8% oil while racing. Its because 1 guy does it and gets a few more seconds off a tank. After a few laps it adds up. So your forced to because you'll have a disadvantage on run time.
Proof that you lean an engine with less/thinner oil ....and richen it for higher /thicker oil.
To get the power back it needs richened to get more burnable fuel thru it.
Tib said you gotta lean it out because it never gets out a fourstroke? I don't know. I don't have that problem with the car. Or my plane with a TT pro .46.
I just don't think 6-8% oil can keep up at 30k plus for good engine life. It bothers me when I have to squint for a smoke trail. Werks hardly has smoke at long wot runs.
Im not sure about more oil covering a lean bog. I was able to lean my old 4.6 on werks by half a turn or more from an optimal tune....still didn't bog on shorter wot runs.
Think that varys by engine. I don't tune until it lean bogs lol. I jeep richening until top speed rpm us reduced than lean until highest rpm on longer wot straightaway. If going leaner doesn't give a higher rpm I back off from there a bit.
Going leaner past peak won't raise peak rpms but will get there faster. That's the only tricky part.
Ignoring how fast it winds up...
Instead what rpm does it do on a long wot run?
And obviously being 2 stroke I don't hold wot too long. Even on a good tune you can't wot a 2 smoker forever. I'm sure lots of people do though. In that case more oil and a richer needle should help.
How cool would my engine run on 6%?.....well I could tell you. That piston and sleeve on the same engine did hit the 240s on werks fuel. Same engine. Not much difference. If it was holding at 220 does it matter? So the piston might wear to it slightly different.... Then again it might not. Who's gonna prove 40 degrees variance just suddenly opens up the sleeve more? But I don't see that variance. Maybe within 20 degrees or so.
200cc air cooled engines in quads will reach 240s at the spark plug. They get their 100hours no problem if tuned and taken care of. Not sure why I'd cry over a fuel that runs 20 degrees cooler on a 3-5 cc engine?
Supertib aren't you the guy who says a hot warmed up engine is harder to roll the flywheel over vs a cold one?
I've yet to see that. From traxxas engines to two HPI engines.....to plane engines.
Next week I should have my new synthetic/castor mix. Interested to see any difference with a low viscosity fuel.
Different opinions on the same product. Miles may vary I guess.
I can see what he's saying about higher oil. If temps did get to 400 we would have a problem.
But I couldn't get it much over 260 while hard at wot. Its steady after back to back tanks.
I totally understand why you'd want 6-8% oil while racing. Its because 1 guy does it and gets a few more seconds off a tank. After a few laps it adds up. So your forced to because you'll have a disadvantage on run time.
Proof that you lean an engine with less/thinner oil ....and richen it for higher /thicker oil.
To get the power back it needs richened to get more burnable fuel thru it.
Tib said you gotta lean it out because it never gets out a fourstroke? I don't know. I don't have that problem with the car. Or my plane with a TT pro .46.
I just don't think 6-8% oil can keep up at 30k plus for good engine life. It bothers me when I have to squint for a smoke trail. Werks hardly has smoke at long wot runs.
Im not sure about more oil covering a lean bog. I was able to lean my old 4.6 on werks by half a turn or more from an optimal tune....still didn't bog on shorter wot runs.
Think that varys by engine. I don't tune until it lean bogs lol. I jeep richening until top speed rpm us reduced than lean until highest rpm on longer wot straightaway. If going leaner doesn't give a higher rpm I back off from there a bit.
Going leaner past peak won't raise peak rpms but will get there faster. That's the only tricky part.
Ignoring how fast it winds up...
Instead what rpm does it do on a long wot run?
And obviously being 2 stroke I don't hold wot too long. Even on a good tune you can't wot a 2 smoker forever. I'm sure lots of people do though. In that case more oil and a richer needle should help.
How cool would my engine run on 6%?.....well I could tell you. That piston and sleeve on the same engine did hit the 240s on werks fuel. Same engine. Not much difference. If it was holding at 220 does it matter? So the piston might wear to it slightly different.... Then again it might not. Who's gonna prove 40 degrees variance just suddenly opens up the sleeve more? But I don't see that variance. Maybe within 20 degrees or so.
200cc air cooled engines in quads will reach 240s at the spark plug. They get their 100hours no problem if tuned and taken care of. Not sure why I'd cry over a fuel that runs 20 degrees cooler on a 3-5 cc engine?
Supertib aren't you the guy who says a hot warmed up engine is harder to roll the flywheel over vs a cold one?
I've yet to see that. From traxxas engines to two HPI engines.....to plane engines.
Next week I should have my new synthetic/castor mix. Interested to see any difference with a low viscosity fuel.
Last edited by rcbence; 09-01-2014 at 07:37 PM.