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  1. #1

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    pica duellist edf conversion

    \ Hello, just registered - I have a pica duellist thats been sitting in my attic for years now, it has two .46 magnums with beefy air retracts - Has 12 flights on it as I remember. Ive decided its going to be modified into and EDF jet, its got the nacelles for it and the amount of weight it would loose would be huge im thinking. I plan on getting my first edf epo jet in a couple of weeks have been dying to try it havent flown in forever. The duellist has 0 to none chance of being flown as a glow plane again, dawned on me it could maybe become a badass edf jet. Its in really good shape to have been in storage for 8 yrs. Ive been reading about electrics but am a complete novice with the subject, becoming familiar with it slowly. Last night of was trying to figure out what 2 edf engines would equal 2 .46 engines, couldnt find anthing helpful on a prop to edf conversion not to mention a twin... was gonna take all the equipment out/off of it to begin with. Any advice would be much appreciated

    thank you, Robert

  2. #2
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    RE: pica duellist edf conversion

    Why no chance of it ever flying glow again?

    Personally, I love the duellist. I think it's the best sport twin ever produced. Too bad it's out of production. I guess if you have to go electric, EDF would make the coolest way to go, kinda reminiscent of a ME-262 but with the naucells in the wrong place.

    Good luck. If I can ever get my hands on another kit, I'm definitely going to build it out as a glow bird.
    Ultra Sport Brotherhood #48

  3. #3

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    RE: pica duellist edf conversion


    TRY LOOKING UP www.motocalc.com ITS A PROGRAMNE USED FOR SETTING UP ELECTRIC PROP DRIVEN MODELS THERE IS ALSO A EDF PROGRAMNE I USE IT A LOT TO SET UP ELECTRIC TWINS
    YOU CAN DOWN LOAD A 30DAY FREE TRIAL OR BUY THE DISC

  4. #4

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    RE: pica duellist edf conversion

    thanks for the replies, the motocalc program looks helpful. I dont know about your duellist but its quite a production to fly, unless you live on a farm or something.. its like a flying chainsaw which is cool but seems like electric is way more simple way less mess - ? I still have the plans,scraps,etc you can always cut your own parts if you wanted one bad enough lol be glad to send copies.
    The nacelles stick up 1/3 above wing level to accomodate the engine throttle servo arms/pushrods, with electrics the ESC (im assuming this means electric speed contol) replaces throttle servos? and would Ineed 2? If I could put the escs in the wing and drop the nacelles to even with the top of the wing there would be a lotta space for turbines. What houses the fan unit a tube?


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    RE: pica duellist edf conversion

    Do you plane on making the nacelles like that of a Gloster Meteor? If not, how are you going to mount an EDF unit to the wing? You will need a 90mm EDF setup to rival the performance of a .46 glow engine. Either a really hot 6s, or a bit milder 8s EDF will get the job done. You can get 6-7 pounds of thrust per unit and keep the amp draw fairly low that way. You will still be in the 70+amp range, so you will needs at least 4000mah batteries with as high a C rating you can get for battery longevity.
    I would recommend 90mm Wemotec Midi Pros fan, ARC 36-65-1 motors and Castle ICE 100 ESCs.

    If you can do the Meteor style nacelle, you will have one cool looking plane

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    RE: pica duellist edf conversion

    The meteor is badass but the nacelles are vertically bisected by the wing looks like... the duellist has nacelle structure tied into wing I was thinking im gonna have to house the fans in some sort of tube. I figured joining 2 tubes under the wings and then building around that would be the way to go - I could bite into the wing some but was gonna try to not disturb it too much, not looking to redo the wings outside of the nacelles. my question for the evening is I know the fan sits forward in its intake tube (observation) but how far back is it in the f86 and what is the optimal distance of the fan from the front of the intake?

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    RE: pica duellist edf conversion

    Err, horizontally bisected

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    RE: pica duellist edf conversion

    The nacelles under the wing will probably be a bad idea. They will be VERY close to the ground which means you will be sucking up all sorts of FOD. As far as how deep in the nacelle, it is a trade off. Too far forward makes for a longer tail pipe, and too far aft make for a longer intake. Both add drag. A long intake has to stronger since there is more area that is being sucked against. I would go for a couple inches back. Make you the intake lip is well rounded and smooth. All transitions in the intake must be smooth for optimal performance. You may want to include flaps, as you are going to be much heavier. Two sets of 6s 5000 MAH and 100 AMP controllers along with the 10-12AWG wire gets heavy!

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    RE: pica duellist edf conversion

    I think mine weighed 6. something pounds and was under the impression edf power would lighten the plane.... 2 fuel tanks, 2 magnum engines, metal pushrods, beefy struts air retracts.... I pulled the engines and retracts etc the lg is nice stuff robart I think gonna re use hopefully with lighterset up. Am I crazy to think it might loose a couple of pounds? Theres no way its getting heavier Ican surmise that SO what size edf turbines (2 of em) would be PLENTY of power considering lipo weight for an aircraft weighing max 6Lbs? Its got a Lot of ground clearance appreciate the heads up on sucking crap into the fan thats major consideration. What would be a good material to use for the turbine tubes, guess they should latch in halves so i can get to fans? thin pvc maybe? any ideas?

  10. #10

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    RE: pica duellist edf conversion

    There is no way you can lose weight converting to twin EDF. A single 90mm EDF composite or wood plane weighs 5-7 pounds stripped down with no detail. You MIGHT be able to drop back to a 70mm, but you are going to have to run a very HOT set up, which will be more prone smoking parts. You will be over 100 amps, so no real weight savings other than a 4s battery vs a 6s. You will need 125 amp controllers and 10AWG wire will be a must.
    You have to build the nacelle then line the intake with fiberglass and use mylar for the thrust tube. Look at some pictures of a ME-262 for nacelle design.

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    RE: pica duellist edf conversion

    Ive got info that says 130 -150 watts per pound is in high performance/3D model territory - is that correct? if thats the case cant Irun 2 70mm fans pulling about 35 amps, 2 60A escs, 2 11.1V lipos (what S and C should i consider?) Thats 350W+ per engine = 700W for 2 of em - If it stays the same weight thats around 110W/pound... Im gonna crunch numbers with a particular set up and weigh the wings and fuse with servos and see exactly what the finished weight would be. Any knowledge Much appreciated starting to get a better grip on the terms etc...

  12. #12

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    RE: pica duellist edf conversion

    Watts per pound does not translate to EDFs. EDFs are very poor at converting electricity to thrust efficeintly.
    For the weight you are going to be pushing, you will need around 1000 watts per fan to provide decent performance. You may even need more than that if you fly from grass. I have a 1300 watt 70mm in a foamy and it goes 80 mph out of a dive. It weighs around 3.5 pounds, and it does NOT have unlimted vertical, not even close. You have to get the thrust numbers where they should be in order for it to fly right. Anything under 4 pounds per side will be a dog. Remember, you don't have props putting out the huge volumes of air with an EDF. You have two 58mm holes to provide all of your flight thrust.
    While I have never flown a Duellist, I do know that Pica kits were heavy. I am sure you were closer to 8 pounds with glow power if you had single servos on everything and fixed gear. Each motor and tank is about a pound, the radio is another pound with a small battery, so that left you with a 3.5 lb airframe?

  13. #13

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    RE: pica duellist edf conversion

    Man Iwas hoping this wasnt going to get expensive lo, a thousand watts per fan? gesse.. Im definitely not up for the underpowered thing if Im gonna do it its gonna have PLENTYof power. You have 371 watts/pound goin on your foamie and I would like the duellist to be at least that fast, guess im gonna reconsider edf size. The engines on the duellist were a pound each + 2 hitec throttle servos and two tanks removed the wing feels superlight, I went out of my way to build it as light as possible. It was my third plane the one before it was a 60size spitfire with a .90 supertigre on it ITWEIGHED12POUNDS lolo smashed the landing gear on maiden flight flew like a brick, engine liked to cut off, luckily the field was surrounded by crops you could ditch in - made emergency landings much more forgiving lo. When I built the duellist I used CA everywhere possible and epoxy only in the critical areas etc.. It was definitely 6 something pounds, I guess going edf is gonna make weight even more critical, saw some carbon fiber tubing might use that for the ducts. At some point this weekend im gonna put the fuse + wings +retracts together - engines, throttle servos, tanks, and weigh it .... go from there i guess.
    Thank you for your help


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