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Black Horse Shrike Commander

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Old 11-03-2011, 11:02 PM
  #76
NMZ
 
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Test flight of Paul's Shrike today did not go to plan. Left leg collapsed during taxi test. Managed to fix that and get three greens (down and locked) by air pressure alone, but retraction still not working. Commenced takeoff roll, aircraft accelerated well but stuck to the runway like glue. More power fed in, more elevator fed in, nothing, nothing, nothing, LEAP! Not a good way to get into the air. Immediate signs of wild tip stall so killed the power and arrived back on the ground unscathed other than popped the mounts out of one main landing gear.
Apparently the BRIDI and the GREAT PLANES Shrikes were also notorious for tip stall. I see this model has no washout built into the wings either. The taper of the wing plan is also not the most stall refusing around.
Admittedly, the model was set-up with a lot of aileron throw - something I don't have on my own aircraft, so we'll change that for next time.
Also we will mow the runway. it wasn't bad today but could have done with a little haircut. A bit of wind on the nose would have been nice too.
Stuck to the runway seemed to be exactly like a ducted fan jet I had. It would not rotate nicely off the ground until it had quite a nose high on-ground angle of attack set to it (long nose leg). Zero angle of attack on some aircraft requires a lot of groundspeed to lift-off, and usually (like today) it results in a sudden "un-stick" - going from virtually nil angle of attack to a sudden great angle of attack in the air, which then turns into wild tip stall. This bird will take some tinkering me thinks, and me thinks it will not likely like slow flight!
So sorry to disappoint folks, no successful flight today.

Test flew my re-engined Dual-Ace. Put it into a right engine left rudder hammerhead stall and it whipped into a fully developed flat spin, power off, nothing, still spinning, both engines to full power, nothing, still spinning, still descending, oh crap! Full left engine and right rudder - just managed to get it to stop rotating and push into a vertical dive and into a both engines recovery about 20 feet off the deck. YOWZA it was close.

NMZ
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Old 11-04-2011, 02:38 AM
  #77
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Default RE: Black Horse Shrike Commander

Sorry to hear that NMZ, we all certainly were expecting news from you, so I will take those lessons on board. Surprisingly youtube does not show me any video from someone flying this nice plane; it seems that you are the only one whi has flown it!!. For now I'll keep flying my Dual Ace and my new Cessna 337 push-pull
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Old 11-04-2011, 04:54 AM
  #78
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Default RE: Black Horse Shrike Commander

It was still a great day with even a greater save by Norm, I'm away on a Break next Week so repairs will start next Friday. I think that maybe there will be somthing on U tube as Peter had a video of the leg going down.
Question has every body have a Dual Ace ? Yours Paul T
One good idea that Norm had today was that the Reciever may be better in the removable hatch,as there is bugger all room else were.
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Old 11-04-2011, 01:56 PM
  #79
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: Quigleywins


Question has every body have a Dual Ace ? Yours Paul T
I've been following this thread for some time. Was still hoping they would release this Shrike here in the states. Oh well.........I'll wait.

Dual Ace ? Yep..........still flyin' mine. Got a pair of OS .52 4-strokers' on her. Nice flyer !

I like it so much I bought another Dual Ace about two years ago to use as a spare...........hope I'll never need the spare.[X(]

Joe M.
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Old 11-06-2011, 04:55 PM
  #80
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Default RE: Black Horse Shrike Commander

Really want the large version! What would all the owner's here think about an electric conversion for it? Would making the large version electric also make it too heavy? What ESC and motors would be used? Would it be possible to use two electric motors with one ESC split?

Also, what replacement retracts would fit?

Thanks.
Steve
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Old 11-06-2011, 08:02 PM
  #81
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Default RE: Black Horse Shrike Commander

Just received an email flyer from Hobby People.

The Black Horse Shrike Commander is now available.

It will come in two different sizes. The 58.27" version is $379.99.

The one I wanted to get, the 81.1" version is a whopping $629.99. Why so much ??[:'(]

http://www.hobbypeople.net/index.php...racts-81.html#

Boy, I really wanted this Shrike, but now I've got to decide if I really need another $1500.00 RC plane.

I think for now I'll put it on my wish list and wait for the price to come down.

Joe M.
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Old 11-07-2011, 05:24 PM
  #82
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Default RE: Black Horse Shrike Commander

The Hobby People website says glow or electric power on the 81" version.

I was tossing around the idea of having another big electric twin, but the instruction manual says nothing about electric power http://www.blackhorsemodel.com.vn/pr...Commander9.pdf

Appears this Commander is set up for glow only. Also, while looking through the instruction manual I couldn't find anything about where a pair of larger size lipos would go. By looking at the weight of this Commander I would guess it would need at least a couple of 4-cell lipo packs in the 4000mah+ range.

I have both the Hangar 9 Twin Otter and the EFlite Deuces Wild. The Twin Otter has provisions for either glow or electric......really nice.....I went with electric power on mine.

The Deuces Wild is electric only.

A very nice feature on both of these planes is they are equipped with quick-release, spring-type hatches on the top of each engine nacelle for super-quick lipo access. You can have both lipos out of the plane and install a freshly recharged set in just a matter of seconds.

Joe M.
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Old 11-08-2011, 12:24 AM
  #83
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Default RE: Black Horse Shrike Commander



Century Jet Models retracts 34399 for the Bridi Aero Commander should fit right in I would suspect Steve. Perhaps others will have better luck with the kit legs than us.
Kit is now $529 here in AUST. (Probably $540 USD). Based on our experience so far, it is not a good aircraft for first time twin flyers I think. Get a Dual Ace for that.

Nice DualAce Joe. I see you went for the FULTZ dual noseleg, nice! Standard noseleg is doing just fine on mine so far but I find the mains bend aft a little. Might change them over to some custom 3/16 piano wire legs.


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Old 11-08-2011, 05:19 AM
  #84
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: NMZ



Century Jet Models retracts 34399 for the Bridi Aero Commander should fit right in I would suspect Steve. Perhaps others will have better luck with the kit legs than us.
Kit is now $529 here in AUST. (Probably $540 USD). Based on our experience so far, it is not a good aircraft for first time twin flyers I think. Get a Dual Ace for that.

Nice DualAce Joe. I see you went for the FULTZ dual noseleg, nice! Standard noseleg is doing just fine on mine so far but I find the mains bend aft a little. Might change them over to some custom 3/16 piano wire legs.


The Fultz gear has been around for a long time. They have never failed me on any plane. You can bend them until it looks like they will break, and they always seem to spring back to their original location. There should be an international law where all of the wire strut manufacturers on this planet have to send their wire struts over to Fultz for heat treating !

I sure would like to know how they can justify that whopping $629.99 price for the Commander ? Hmmmm.........maybe that posted price is an error. Maybe tommorow they will post the new corrected price of $429.99[X(]..........wishful thinking ??

Weak legs ? I really hate retracts that get easilly damaged and won't work on slightly rough grass runways. Not all of us have smooth concrete or ashfault.[] Thanks for the tip on the Century retracts.

I'm attempting to get away from air or servo-mechanical operated retracts and switch over to all-electric retracts. I went with the Down and Locked electric conversion on my TopFlite Cessna 310 twin. First I needed to buy the custom-fit Robarts air units, then I had to mail my Robarts to Down and Locked for the electrical conversion. They did a nice job and the electrical conversion is working great.

Down and Locked doesn't make electric retracts, but they will convert most makes of retracts over to electrical operation.

The only problem was the total cost of the Robarts plus the electrical conversion..........over 800 bucks........ouch !

Joe M.
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Old 11-08-2011, 07:30 AM
  #85
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Default RE: Black Horse Shrike Commander

I don't think they will correct the price. The 58" electric version is on the shelf in my local shop at $389! If I didn't really want a Shrike that price would be WAY TOO HIGH. And it still may be. The larger version should be that price. No way I'm paying $630 for the big kit.

I am considering the smaller version. I only wish it had retracts. I hate flying scale planes with the gear down and wire struts. It just doesn't look right. I may remove them and just hand launch if I can't find small retracts to fit.

Anyone have a link the manual for the 58" version? It doesn't work on the BH site.
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Old 11-08-2011, 04:34 PM
  #86
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: NMZ

Test flight of Paul's Shrike today did not go to plan. Left leg collapsed during taxi test. Managed to fix that and get three greens (down and locked) by air pressure alone, but retraction still not working. Commenced takeoff roll, aircraft accelerated well but stuck to the runway like glue. More power fed in, more elevator fed in, nothing, nothing, nothing, LEAP! Not a good way to get into the air. Immediate signs of wild tip stall so killed the power and arrived back on the ground unscathed other than popped the mounts out of one main landing gear.
Apparently the BRIDI and the GREAT PLANES Shrikes were also notorious for tip stall. I see this model has no washout built into the wings either. The taper of the wing plan is also not the most stall refusing around.
Admittedly, the model was set-up with a lot of aileron throw - something I don't have on my own aircraft, so we'll change that for next time.
Also we will mow the runway. it wasn't bad today but could have done with a little haircut. A bit of wind on the nose would have been nice too.
Stuck to the runway seemed to be exactly like a ducted fan jet I had. It would not rotate nicely off the ground until it had quite a nose high on-ground angle of attack set to it (long nose leg). Zero angle of attack on some aircraft requires a lot of groundspeed to lift-off, and usually (like today) it results in a sudden ''un-stick'' - going from virtually nil angle of attack to a sudden great angle of attack in the air, which then turns into wild tip stall. This bird will take some tinkering me thinks, and me thinks it will not likely like slow flight!
So sorry to disappoint folks, no successful flight today.

Test flew my re-engined Dual-Ace. Put it into a right engine left rudder hammerhead stall and it whipped into a fully developed flat spin, power off, nothing, still spinning, both engines to full power, nothing, still spinning, still descending, oh crap! Full left engine and right rudder - just managed to get it to stop rotating and push into a vertical dive and into a both engines recovery about 20 feet off the deck. YOWZA it was close.

NMZ

I owned a Bridi kit this size for some years. Wanted to emulate Bob Hoover with it. The was a lot of stuff done by someone else that I'de have had to undo. Plus, there was no washout built into those highly tapered wings. My research into that led me to two things: The model was a tip-stall hog, and the full scale plane had 7 or 8 degrees of washout. That is one of the higher values for any plane, anywhere. Leaving it out of the model is a guarantee for poor behavior.

Flaps would be one thing that would help, in that they would unload the wingtips and have them fly at a lower angle of attack - at least for TO and landing. They would also help with the takeoff since they would establish an angle of attack while rolling level, and create some downwash on the tail to help generate pitch force.

However, since you are dealing with an ARF here, and probably don't want to rebuild the wings with twist you could do the following: Use a small amount of spoileron (up aileron, both sides) for takeoff and landing. It could be activated on the retract switch. Or you might want to fly with it at all times. Not scale, but niether is an untwisted wing. Do it at least for the first flights, please.
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Old 11-09-2011, 02:59 AM
  #87
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Default RE: Black Horse Shrike Commander


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Johng
.. and the full scale plane had 7 or 8 degrees of washout.
+ 3 deg. at wing root, -3,5 deg. at wing tip and + 0,75 deg. at stabilizer, according to the late scale model designer Dan Palmer

I completed his 1/5-scale Commander in 2003 and the plane has never showed any signs of tip stall
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Old 11-10-2011, 09:09 PM
  #88
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Default RE: Black Horse Shrike Commander

Leo,

Have you been flying your Shrike any lately? I have finally gotten started on my Turbo Commander again. I think the last time I talked to you, you wanted to convert it back to gas. Did you ever do that? I have built the same amount of washout into mine also. It is very evident if you look at a full scale Commander.

Jeff
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Old 11-11-2011, 04:53 AM
  #89
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Default RE: Black Horse Shrike Commander

Jeff,

Good to hear you┬┤re back on the Commander 1000 build. Your plane with the extended fuselage looks awesome in the pictures. Hope it will be as docile in the air as mine

Still no engines in my plane. I have been into kayaking and strip built wooden kayaks for some time. A pair of Laser 100 four strokes are impatiently awaiting to be installed.
I┬┤m planning to get my Shrike in the air again for the coming spring

The BH Shrike┬┤s are really beautiful. It would be a shame if they end up as hangar queens. I second John┬┤s idea with spoileron settings in the ailerons.
Also, flaps cut-out from the wing and operated by mini servos, should not be too difficult to construct and should make take-off and landings less critical.

Yes, the washout is very noticeable in the Palmer Commander as well

Leo

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Old 11-11-2011, 05:40 AM
  #90
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Nice picture!! Beautiful plane...
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Old 11-12-2011, 08:31 AM
  #91
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I jumped on the BH Shrike 58" version. Should be in next week. I've decided to power it with 2-MicroDan2510-1300Kv[/b](http://www.gobrushless.com/shop/inde...ef=MD2510-1300), Castle Thunderbird 36 ESC's, and one Sky Lipo 3000mAh 40C 11.1V battery. I'll use the GWS 3 blade 9x5 on each side (10150RPM, 10.5V, 25A, 43oz thrust).

I want to put in small retracts. Any thoughts on electric (or other) small retracts that would work on this? I hate flying around with gear hanging down. However, this is an ARF and I don't know if it can be converted to retracts at all. Or if they have some that would fit.

I'll start my own thread so I won't hijack your info.

Steve
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Old 11-12-2011, 05:06 PM
  #92
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: stevehookem

I jumped on the BH Shrike 58'' version. Should be in next week. I've decided to power it with 2-MicroDan 2510-1300Kv[/b] (http://www.gobrushless.com/shop/inde...ef=MD2510-1300), Castle Thunderbird 36 ESC's, and one Sky Lipo 3000mAh 40C 11.1V battery. I'll use the GWS 3 blade 9x5 on each side (10150RPM, 10.5V, 25A, 43oz thrust).

I want to put in small retracts. Any thoughts on electric (or other) small retracts that would work on this? I hate flying around with gear hanging down. However, this is an ARF and I don't know if it can be converted to retracts at all. Or if they have some that would fit.

I'll start my own thread so I won't hijack your info.

Steve
Hi Steve,

I also tossed around the idea of getting the 58" version, but I think I'll wait until the price of the 81" version comes down.

As far as installing retracts into a plane that doesn't even have them; ANYTHING is possible if you want to spend the time.

The picture is of my 9 year old Lanier F4 Phantom. It was not equipped to handle any kind of retracts and came only with fixed gear.

This plane was crying for retracts and I was also determined to see my Phantom would get them ! I went with Robarts' air powered.

It was a lot of work, but the end result was a lot of self-satisfaction !

A good start on your main gear is to start looking at, and start saving plastic caps from hair spray, bug spray, shaving cream, spray paint cans, etc., etc. I now have quite a collection of caps.[X(] They work great for wheel housings.

Joe M.
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Old 11-30-2011, 01:13 PM
  #93
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Default RE: Black Horse Shrike Commander

Any new info on this plane?
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Old 11-30-2011, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: stevehookem

Any new info on this plane?

Yeah..... this thread has been a little slow. It could be the high prices for either the 58" or 81" versions. When the price with shipping for the 81" version gets down to under $500 I will most likely bite at it. With shipping, the currently available 81" version is about $700.

I believe I mentioned this earlier, but I found the website and read the assembly manual for the 81" version. No mention at all in the manual for using electric power. This plane IS NOT set up for electric operation.

Hobby People claims this plane will fly with either glow or electric power. I guess it's possible to convert almost any plane over to electric operation, but with this plane it looks like a lot of custom fabrication. It also appears there is no designed place for either decent lipo mounting, or easy lipo removal and installation.

Did you get your 58" version yet ?

Joe M.
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Old 12-06-2011, 07:39 AM
  #95
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Finally got my kit yesterday! It was way longer to ship to my retailer than I thought. I had another shop in town that had them in stock but I wanted to use my local shop that I frequent.

I'm looking for small retracts that rotate. I have found regular .10-.15 size but none that lift to the back and rotate the wheel flat to the wing. I may have to turn the non-rotating sideways and just let the wheel rise straight back and hang out some. At least it would be retracts, not perfectly scale though.
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Old 12-06-2011, 11:31 PM
  #96
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Well today I made the effort to get that wheel back in the wheel well. A little reinforcement on the underside of the mount and its back in all ready to go again.Yet to put the Flaperons in the program on the transmitter all is good to go. Yours Paul T PS When the next day off norm.
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Old 12-26-2011, 02:55 AM
  #97
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Hi anybody flown the Blackhorse Shrike Commander, 80in twin, looking to buy it would be gratefull for any feedback
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Old 12-26-2011, 07:20 AM
  #98
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ORIGINAL: farfar

Hi anybody flown the Blackhorse Shrike Commander, 80in twin, looking to buy it would be gratefull for any feedback

Seeing the light activity at this thread is telling me not too many people have purchased this plane.

It's still on my wish list, but I personally am going to wait until the ridiculous price comes down.

As I mentioned earlier, this plane is advertised as possibly being electric powered, but is not set up for electric operation. So, if and when I get one, it will be glow powered......probably OS .50 or .70 4-strokers.

Joe M.
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Old 12-26-2011, 07:56 AM
  #99
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I believe it is on sale now at Hobby People for $489, worth it in my opinion.
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Old 01-16-2012, 05:45 PM
  #100
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Default RE: Black Horse Shrike Commander

Anyone got any updates on their shrike? Interested in how people are finding the flight characteristics! and would love to see a video. I have not seen footage of one on approach and the videos I have seen show it to be very pitchy.
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