merving

I have recently purchase a bronco and I am woundering what is the most suitable to go with it.

n3cal

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[8D] I just finished posting some videos of my OV-10. The engines are Saito FA40 Four Stokes and Props are APC 10.5 X 6. Grass strip is about 450' long. The video link is:

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze8bex1/

Best regards,

Cal

MormonMike

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N3CAL, let me know how your Saito 40's work out, I will be doing that to my OV-10. Whats your altitude. Can you make three blades work?. MM.

n3cal

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MM, The Saito 40's are working great! I'm at sea level here, about 1/4 mile from the Chesapeake Bay! The Saito 40's are plenty of power in the air and give the added punch for grass strip ops however I had no luck with three bladed props??? Not enough speed to get airborne. I think they would work fine on a paved runway though...

Best Regards,

Cal

MormonMike

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Hmm........ Im running a 14 -8 on a saito .100 lancair , seems to be ok. Im at 4500 feet. maybe 10-8's with saito 40 might work. Sounds like you have plenty of power with 40's, 56's would certainly be over-kill. [like on my Islander] OK, I'll start from there. Thanksabunch, MM

kolarshooter

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Any updates?

MormonMike

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paso robles..... PASO ROBLES !! Nothing like becoming home-sick again ! Oh well, Kolarshooter, I'm still in the process of building mine. It will be a while though, Sorry to keep you on hold like this, probably a few months, till I get our new flying site done. Just busy elsewheres for now. MM

kolarshooter

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OH? Are/were you a Bearcat?

MormonMike

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Kolar, No, Just a passer-through, I've lived all over down there, love the area even though tempers are short and road traffic is always bumper to bumper. Looking for a deal on a pair of NEW saito .40's. Not interested in used. For all the money were dumping into this little OV-10, I wonder if it would have been wiser to have went with the bigger kit or ARF ? [] MM PS, by the way, what type of fuel tank set-up are you going to go with? I'm putting an 18 ounce inside the main pod and pump the fuel out through the wing to the Perrypumps for the Saito's. Can't see much room in the engine pods for anything but little-bitty 4 oz tanks.

pkoury

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I have the 52 inch version built from plans, I have spring air gear mounted and the nose wheel does retract forward. I used a belly mount nose retract and had to mount the nose wheel deep in the nose. With the rearward bend in the nose gear the nose wheel barely clears the nose wheel doors when closed. The mains did take up quite a lot of room but I was able to shoe horn them in. I have OS 25FX's turning 9x5s at 13K and fly at 1/3 throttle still able to loop from level flight. Never weighed it but I love the way it flies so I dont care what the wing loading is. Like the other post mention you must adjust the gear to get rid of the negative wing incidence for best takeoff performance. I fly off of grass and I am using a very small nose wheel for clearance issues and do not have problems taking off from tall grass except for the grass residue thrown on the fuse side from the starboard prop cutting the grass.I have the 52 inch version built from plans, I have spring air gear mounted and the nose wheel does retract forward. I used a belly mount nose retract and had to mount the nose wheel deep in the nose. With the rearward bend in the nose gear the nose wheel barely clears the nose wheel doors when closed. The mains did take up quite a lot of room but I was able to shoehorn them in. I have OS 25FX's turning 9x5s at 13K and fly at 1/3 throttle still able to loop from level flight. Never weighed it but I love the way it flies so I don't care what the wing loading is. Like the other post mention you must adjust the gear to get rid of the negative wing incidence for best takeoff performance. I fly off of grass and I am using a very small nose wheel for clearance issues and do not have problems taking off from tall grass except for the grass residue thrown on the fuse side from the starboard prop cutting the grass.

MormonMike

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Pkoury, go weigh the thing. With the retracts installed, Im curious to know what it comes in at. The attrition rate for small twins told me to by-pass retracts on this one. Find a small refrigeration scale from somebody and tell us what it weighs. Show us some photos please. MM

SaviCatses

I'm currently building one of these OV-10 Broncos as well, and nearing completion. At this point, the wing has been covered and primed. All that's left is to cover and prime the rest of the plane, final paint and detail work... and then it'll be ready to fly.

The attached picture shows the state of the Bronco just before I started covering the wing. At the time the picture was taken it weighed in at just over 5.5 pounds with all electronics and engines installed. I'll be flying it with new OS 25 LA engines. I've installed mechanical retracts, and the nose gear does retract forwards.

kolarshooter

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Very nice. I'm jealous!

FallDownGoBoom

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SaviCatses:

Beautiful plane... I especially like your execution of the nacelle/wing junctions, the sponsons, and that little bump (whatever the thing is!) at the rear of the wing on the main fuselage.

I have an OV-10 that's a couple of days work behind yours. A couple of questions:

(1) From the picture, your OS 25's appear to be mounted vertically. How did you handle the mufflers? Pitts style exhaust or ??? I'm gonna run a pair of TT GP 25's, and it looks like they'll have to be side mounted with muffler extensions to keep from cutting into the nacelles, or twisted 45 degrees, which will probably get the stock mufflers to clear the nacelles, but require major surgery on the cowls. Any words of wisdom?

(2) How did you treat the controls for the elevator? I used flexible push rods with .056 cable, but when I hand-tested the cable movement, the friction was large enough to worry me. So I ran another flex tube down the other nacelle, and am thinking about using .032 cable, and running dual elevator servos to just in case the smaller diameter cable might flex.

Thanks in advance,

Fred

MormonMike

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Savi, why do i get the feeling that when mine is completed, It's going to weigh in around 9 pounds. I to was going to install a full cockpit but decided against the weight so I'll "smoke" the canopy instead to save weight. What's your altitude? I'm at 4500 feet so I'm looking at installing a pair of Saito .40's. Did you install separate fuel tanks in the engine pods? I'm opting for an 18 ounce tank in the center pod to Perry pumps in the wings. No room for decent size tanks behind engines. It's awful cramped for retracts too. I thought I was doing great but it appears I'm getting my rear end kicked real good by the rest of you OV-10'ers. I need some shots of the tail area please. Thanks, MM

SaviCatses

FallDown,

The 3-View I have happens to be in Russian, and the only words I recognize hint at the ADF antenna being inside that bump! I found the Rich Uravitch plans rather devoid of details such as wing junctions and the like, so I decided to add my own from several pictures of the particular plane I'm trying to model (a Venezuelan OV-10D).

I really did mount the engine vertically, and then became rather annoyed at my stupidity when I tried putting the wing back on. But, I refused to be put out by this and took out the dremel and forced the matter, as shown in the pictures.

Sorry for the quality, if you had asked one day earlier (well, if I had posted pictures of my Bronco one day earlier...) the heavy coat of primer (not sanded down yet) would not be obscuring the details as much. (1) I cut out a hole in the wing (2) I then added 'walls' to the hole (to block off the inside of the wing). (3) I filled the remaining hole with lightwight spackle and sanded to shape. On the nacelle, the 3 degrees of out-thrust meant I had to shave off the side of the nacelle and add a new wall. It currently looks a little awful, but the epoxy (fuel proofing) has just finished drying and I haven't sanded / added primer as of yet.

This means that I have the mufflers half encased by the wings! Also, as can be seen in the picture, the cowl has not yet been cut away to make place for the mufflers.

As for the elevator, it's not yet hooked up, but I've made it according to plans; a sullivan gold n' rod is snaked through the right fin and exists under the stabilizer (I've cheated a bit, in the pictures I've posted, the stab is not yet really glued in place, a little bit of duck tape is holding it in place). But, the pushrod as it is, moves freely enough not to bother me. I'll try to get some better pictures of this setup when it's hooked up (after painting).

SaviCatses

Mike,

I put some pictures showing how cramped my nacelles are, I had to find a rather special way to install the servos, they poke out into the wing! (I have holes cut into the wing to give clearance to the servos).

For the gear and weight, I'd have to say that I have a large advantage over you.... I scratch built this Bronco, it's not a kit. The plans I have (Rich Uravitch) shows that all the formers in the nacelles and pod are supposed to be plywood. I replaced them all by Balsa. And for the retracts, since I was building the formers, I just chucked out the design that was on the plan and replaced it with my own (as can be seen in the older picture showing the nose gear).

I'm at sea-level, so engine power should not be a problem, and I don't have any idea what should be flown at 4500 ft. On the other hand, I do have fuel tank experience! The amount of space for the tanks is rediculous, even in my own Bronco. I found a good solution.. I have two 2oz fuel tanks in each nacelle, connected in series, side by side. I took this idea from the Sullivan website. 4oz per engine should be enough since they're little 25LAs.

What is it exactly that you need for the tail area? I won't connect the elevator to the pushrod for some time yet, and all the actual plumbing is hidden away within the fuselage.

MormonMike

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Savi, "Oh you naughty boy". I thought you were building the small R.U. kit. Well, no ''biggie''. The fuel tank issue seems to be a very quiet topic. I understand what you did with yours. I will continue with the one big tank in center and feed it to the engines. Some of you guys seem to be having good results with the Sullivan golden flex cable for the elevator. From what I heard elsewheres I thought the Great Planes flexable pushrods were the way to go [ although bigger in diameter and probably more unsightly ] I'll be using a higher torque mini servo for engine pod area install. Tower/Futaba TS-35's. Dont laugh, out of 150 servo's [ mostly Tower ] I have only had ONE failure with them. I'm impressed with your retracts but I will wait till I move on to a much bigger OV-10 before I go that route Thanks for the photos too. Seeya later, MM

SaviCatses

Mike,

I'm not too familiar with 4 strokes, but I suggest you ask around before going with a single central tank with pump(s). See, I had figured to try using a single central tank as well but was recommended against it. Make sure that once one engine is started, that you don't end up pushing fuel to the second engine and flooding it before you even have a chance to get it started!

Again, I have no experience with pumps, but if you have two pumps hooked up to the same central tank, wouldn't the pumps end up working against each other trying to syphon fuel to each engine? Maybe using two seperate central tanks would be easier. Whatever you do, make sure it's VERY reliable.

As for kit vs. scratch build, I don't know how much different the R.U. plans are in each case. But it's true that it becomes much easier to adapt the build if the pieces aren't precut

MormonMike

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Yo Savi, My twin Islander is set up with separate Perry pumps from one big tank in the fuse. I have not had a problem with one flooding out the other in all the start-ups it's had. However, I'm well aware of your point, and yes, it should be happening that way but it's not. [ at least for me ] Your suggestion of using two tanks side-by-side certainly has appeal and I just might try that to be different from the Islander. I intend to Ultracote the main wing and horizontal stab but I'm going to fiberglass resin paint the rest of it--- sand, prime, paint. in California dept. of Forrestry colors. Just a note, having difficulty shaping the nose area on this. Even though I've built over 12 "kits" and have had over 50 ARF's, this little R.U. kit is not for a beginner. Thanks for the chat, Seeya later, Mike

FallDownGoBoom

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Mike and Savi:

(And I apologize if I'm horning in), I put 6oz Sullivan RST's in the front of each nacelle. Had to route out about 1/8" all around the inside of former N2, but ended up with a nice foam filled "coffin" to hold the tank. I figure that should give me about 10 minute flight time with the .25's. I used the Goldberg cable-based push rods for the elevators, and the normal flexible yellow nyrods for the rudders. Think I'll have to use music wire for the throttles, as the bends required to clear the mufflers are going to be interesting.

Savi, nice treatment on the mufflers... were you worried about losing any structural strength with the extra cut outs?

Mike, the way i ended up shaping the nose was to discard the plastic cap, glue a piece of 1-1/4 x 2 x 3 solid balsa on the front of F1, and then go to work carving/sanding it to shape. You're right, this hasn't been a simple kit, and other than having the advantage of precut formers, I don't think there's a lot of difference between the kit and modifying it the way you want from the plans.

Fred

SaviCatses

I wish I could of put in some 6 oz tanks, but because of the retracts, there's absolutely no way of cutting out N2.a (renamed after I put in a second former which I baptised N2.b )

For the nose, I went the other way from FallDown, I kept the plastic nose cone, but I placed a big block of balsa over the front of the fuselage (the instrument console) and shaped that to shape. I simply hate planking. Using the dremel, It was easy to then hollow out that big balsa block and there you go, a perfectly shaped 'deck' and instrument console. Incidentally, that's the same way I did on the wing just behind the cockpit, a block of balsa sanded to the correct shape.

I really doubt the muffler cutouts will cause any problems with strength. The leading edge "spar" was only cut done by half it's thickness, and in any case, I added shear webs all down the main spar. Plus, the cut outs are filled with lightwight spackle and reinforced with a layer of epoxy. I wouldn't be surprised if it's not actually stronger

MormonMike

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Savi, FDGB, Hmmm.. that sounds like a better idea, balsa block to the nose, the pattern is there. A pair of forty's drink more fuel so I'll still opt for the two [or single] tank in the fuse pod. And FDGB, you ain't buddin' in, I enjoy talking to you guys and wish I could meet you's. Would like to see a photo of the wing saddle doubler installed , plans dont say if they mount at an angle to the bulkheads or are they glued straight up and down and then curve the forward section to conform to the forward bulkhead. My company hired a "Commie" proxy server so I am unable to load photos here for the time being. I've no internet at home. Seeya guys, MM

jlingrel

My wife is Russian, if you need it translated, scan it and email it to me at [email protected]


John

FallDownGoBoom

My Feedback: (1)

Savi and MM:

Interesting idea about the solid block in the nose... I'd never thought of that approach, but I was planning on using the area forward of the instrument panel to hold the battery. From what I've read about the Bronc's, they tend to be tail heavy, so I put hatches under both forward sections of the fuselage, one for the battery and the other to get to the nose gear steering. I ended up doing the forward section the way the plans/construction guide recommended: cutting kerfs in the longerons in front of F3 and then bending things together. But that weakened the balsa so much that I laminated a couple of 1/4" stips of 1/16 balsa to bring the strength back up. If I was gonna do it again, I think I'd try soaking the longerons in Windex and then bending everything as needed in a fuselage jig, or use the solid block approach.

I ended up with the wing saddle doublers installed at an angle (that's what my plans showed), and then I planked the outside to make the slight curve at the top of the fuselage, and blend it into the little round section that sits between the rear of the cockpit and the wing.

Got out my old copy of War Aircraft or somesuch from the early 70's with a big fold out of the Bronco that shows the "inerds". The bump on the back of the wind is a fairing that goes over the ADF antenna. If I can figure out how to get digital stills of my CamCorder, maybe I can post pix.

Guys, any thoughts on how you're going to attach the horizontal stab/elevator assembly (I don't think the duct tape will hold under flight stress )? I've been thinking about using #4 bolts through the vertical stabs into holes tapped in the sides of the horizontal stab, as well as some triangle stock mounted underneath it with screws holding everything together. That way I can adjust the stab incidence as necessary, as well as maybe saving some of the tail if I have another one of those unplanned/ungraceful landings that seem to accompany flying these beasts.

Fred