Twin & Multi Engine RC Aircraft Discuss the ins & outs of building & flying multi engine rc aircraft here.

B-17 project

Reply
Old 05-10-2005, 06:06 PM
  #1
50%plane
Thread Starter
 
50%plane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: California
Posts: 3,943
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default B-17 project

Does anyone know where to get a kit or plans of a B-17? If so, please post.
50%plane is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2005, 06:24 PM
  #2
William Robison
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Mary Esther, Florida, FL
Posts: 20,205
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: B-17 kit or plans?

Chris:

If you can stand an ARF B-17 Cedar Hobbies has one that should be released soon, ifit's not already out.

Twinman had a thread about the prototype, check it. As I recall it used 0.25 engines.

Bill.

PS: [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_1967633/anchors_1967633/mpage_1/key_B%252D17/anchor/tm.htm#1967633]B-17 Projects[/link]

FOUND IT! [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_2447788/anchors_2447788/mpage_1/key_Fuel/anchor/tm.htm#2447788]B-17 ARF[/link]
William Robison is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2005, 07:46 PM
  #3
50%plane
Thread Starter
 
50%plane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: California
Posts: 3,943
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: B-17 kit or plans?

Thanks William Robison,
I'm not looking for an ARf. I would prefer a kit due to lack of time, but I am one of the few who can/will build from plans.
50%plane is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2005, 07:52 AM
  #4
50%plane
Thread Starter
 
50%plane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: California
Posts: 3,943
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: B-17 kit or plans?

Does anybody have any information about the old Royal kit? I know they made them, but I've never seen one.
50%plane is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2005, 05:14 PM
  #5
dionysusbacchus
 
dionysusbacchus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: McQueeney, TX
Posts: 2,356
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: B-17 kit or plans?

Hi Woops,

I'm a fan of the old Royal kits but the B-17 is to small and to heavy. Those kits use old building techniques, no interlocking or self aligning parts and heavy plywood. Not to mention that to get one now you would be paying collectors prices. I would check out [link=http://www.wingspanmodels.com]Wingspan Models B-17's[/link] I'm designing the cockpit for the 1/9 scale B-17, the picture is what I have now. It will include the nose, cockpit and radio operators area.

Good luck,

Dion


Quote:
ORIGINAL: woops

Does anybody have any information about the old Royal kit? I know they made them, but I've never seen one.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Ec88738.jpg
Views:	42
Size:	62.5 KB
ID:	270074   Click image for larger version

Name:	Sn39791.jpg
Views:	45
Size:	64.9 KB
ID:	270075  
dionysusbacchus is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2005, 05:43 PM
  #6
b17flyer
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 351
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: B-17 kit or plans?

American eagle .... 123" span for 4/40size engines.
b17flyer is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2005, 06:02 PM
  #7
JohnBuckner
 
JohnBuckner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Kingman, AZ
Posts: 10,331
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: B-17 kit or plans?


If you want a little smaller one, Wing MFG offers a short kit for their 96 incher. http://www.wingmfg.com/


John
JohnBuckner is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2005, 06:54 PM
  #8
50%plane
Thread Starter
 
50%plane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: California
Posts: 3,943
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: B-17 kit or plans?

The American Eagle is too big, but maybe in the future.
I'm not going to buy the Wingspan Models plans if I can't see what I'm getting.
The Wing Mfg. short kit is the best bet so far. However, I haven't ever sheeted a foam wing before, but I am willing to give it a try.
Any other ideas would be welcomed.
50%plane is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2005, 07:14 PM
  #9
dionysusbacchus
 
dionysusbacchus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: McQueeney, TX
Posts: 2,356
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: B-17 kit or plans?


The Wingspan Models prototype has flown, compared to the Don Smith plans the WM plans are a masterpiece, they are on there own anyway. I have not built the kit but I have built the nose back to the wing leading edge, so that I could construct the cockpit. I saw the kits at Top Gun a few weeks ago and they are outstanding. No jigs are needed, the whole plane can be built on a flat bench, it has interlocking parts. Mike is constructing another plane for an instruction manual, he said he worked for 15 hours to get the plane at the stage shown below. I have the plans and they are scale if that is what you are looking for. It's state of the art in 3D cad design, only time is needed for it to overtake all competition on the market. You may look at the plans on the Wingspan Models web site.

Dion



Quote:
ORIGINAL: woops

I'm not going to buy the Wingspan Models plans if I can't see what I'm getting.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Xv64508.jpg
Views:	96
Size:	50.6 KB
ID:	270124  
dionysusbacchus is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2005, 07:39 PM
  #10
50%plane
Thread Starter
 
50%plane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: California
Posts: 3,943
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: B-17 kit or plans?

Thanks for the info. I'll consider it.
Has anybody seen the plans on Ebay? If so what did you think?
50%plane is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2005, 08:18 PM
  #11
warbirdmustang
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Taylorsville, KY
Posts: 299
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: B-17 kit or plans?

Woops,
I would be cautious about buying plans on ebay... I have heard some folks are copying them and they aren't just the right size when you get your set! Maybe from an individual selling one set. Modelsport Video did several segments on a fella building a Don Smith B17, looked and flew well. There is a company, I believe they are called Hobbybarn, that is selling the old Royal kits again. Try looking for them in RCM, I see them advertised in there often. Hope this helps,
Bryan
warbirdmustang is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2005, 10:14 PM
  #12
shanksow
 
shanksow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Lubbock, TX
Posts: 603
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: B-17 kit or plans?


Quote:
ORIGINAL: dionysusbacchus

The Wingspan Models prototype has flown, compared to the Don Smith plans the WM plans are a masterpiece, they are on there own anyway. I have not built the kit but I have built the nose back to the wing leading edge, so that I could construct the cockpit. I saw the kits at Top Gun a few weeks ago and they are outstanding. No jigs are needed, the whole plane can be built on a flat bench, it has interlocking parts. Mike is constructing another plane for an instruction manual, he said he worked for 15 hours to get the plane at the stage shown below. I have the plans and they are scale if that is what you are looking for. It's state of the art in 3D cad design, only time is needed for it to overtake all competition on the market. You may look at the plans on the Wingspan Models web site.

Dion

Quote:
ORIGINAL: woops

I'm not going to buy the Wingspan Models plans if I can't see what I'm getting.
Wow -

Seeing that picture makes me want to get those wingspan plans more than ever now!
shanksow is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2005, 12:03 AM
  #13
warbirdmustang
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Taylorsville, KY
Posts: 299
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: B-17 kit or plans?

Hey, Woops. There is a Royal B17 kit for sale on the Buy/Sell board right now, if that's what you decide on!
Bryan
warbirdmustang is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2005, 06:05 AM
  #14
50%plane
Thread Starter
 
50%plane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: California
Posts: 3,943
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: B-17 kit or plans?

I'm not interested in the royal kit. I just knew they made them.

About the wingspan models, which model has flown? and I repeat: I will not buy something that I can't see. Also It would be nice if the kits were ready for purchase.
50%plane is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2005, 07:11 AM
  #15
dionysusbacchus
 
dionysusbacchus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: McQueeney, TX
Posts: 2,356
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: B-17 kit or plans?

The 1/9 has flown. It was a stripped down version, no cowls or anything. The 1/6 and 1/12 plans are the same plane basically. The kits are available, did you check the web site, they are listed and several kits were for sale at Top Gun. He has the plugs for the fiberglass parts made, but no parts yet. All the plugs for the fiberglass and clear parts were computer formed.

Do you mean see a built model?

Good luck on your search, let us know what you buy and what you think about your purchase,

Dion


Quote:
ORIGINAL: woops

I'm not interested in the royal kit. I just knew they made them.

About the wingspan models, which model has flown? and I repeat: I will not buy something that I can't see. Also It would be nice if the kits were ready for purchase.
dionysusbacchus is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2005, 08:29 AM
  #16
50%plane
Thread Starter
 
50%plane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: California
Posts: 3,943
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: B-17 kit or plans?

I have visited the website twice. The 1/12 scale version is a little bit large even still, but is the best possibility so far if I see the plans. All the versions take a larger engine then I would have expected. What's the reason for that? Are they heavy?
50%plane is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2005, 08:40 AM
  #17
CoosBayLumber
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: San Bernardino Calif
Posts: 3,757
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: B-17 kit or plans?

Not a large one, but you can contact Bob Holman at www.bhplans.com for the Nexus plans version. It uses four .15 size glow engines. Non-retract gear is shown, but can be swapped out. Bob has parts for the wing, but not for the fuselage. Someone has been selling the fuselage in fiberglass, but I don't remember who.

Wm.
CoosBayLumber is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2005, 10:18 AM
  #18
shanksow
 
shanksow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Lubbock, TX
Posts: 603
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: B-17 kit or plans?

Has anybody else been having problems visiting the wingspandmodels.com website?

I have loaded on my current operating Apple Powerbook 1400c/166 laptop computer both netsacpe 4.7 and 6. Also IE 5. Using all three, each time I went to the above website, these programs froze up and locked up my computer (with regular dial-up modem connection).

I can't get past the opening page to his website.
shanksow is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2005, 10:57 AM
  #19
50%plane
Thread Starter
 
50%plane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: California
Posts: 3,943
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: B-17 kit or plans?

Shankshow,
I have a regular dial up and I haven't had any trouble.

CoosBayLumber,
Who drew the plans? I couldn't find them in my linited search.
50%plane is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2005, 11:31 AM
  #20
Heavy Date
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Derry, NH
Posts: 109
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: B-17 kit or plans?

If the model has been flown, where are the pics of the completed model and flight pics? Plus what was the all up weight , engines used, and flight reports? You would think he would post that info right away.


Woops,
To answer your original question. There is not much in the smaller sizes you are looking for. The AE is 123" or 125" I can't remember. But it is squint scale at best, Nacelles are too long and the fuse is football shaped.

The 125" Holman plan is a nightmare to build, I tossed one away a couple of years ago about half built. I just got tired of trying to make parts fit.

The Smith is 138" and a sound proven flyer. The build is not bad at all, and the scale details are pretty close to full scale. This is what I have now.

The new Wingspan plan is a very nice drawing, but I have never seen one built or flown. There are a few things I see on the plan that wave a red flag at me right off the bat, but until we see a flight report, it is all just opinion. I'm curious as to power, all up weight, how it flew and if the inboard engines died in a turn.
Heavy Date is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2005, 01:03 PM
  #21
dionysusbacchus
 
dionysusbacchus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: McQueeney, TX
Posts: 2,356
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: B-17 kit or plans?


Just so everyone knows, I don't work for Wingspan Models so I don't have all the answers, maybe Mike will add something? I'm just designing the cockpit and maybe adding a complete hollow cast resin crew. I have always been interested in building a B-17 but never saw a plan that I liked on the market. I have not seen one of his planes fly, but he's starting a new company, maybe he should have flown one in competition for 2 years or so, I don't know.

The Don Smith plan is what Mike bought first, it's the plan that convinced him he had to do it all himself.

I respect your opinion Heavy Date so I want to know what you see wrong with the plan. Is it a serious structural problem? Did you buy the plans? Every bit helps and you have the experience, I've never built a B-17.

When I get moved into my new shop I'll have the room to build one, I'm going to post it on line and build it in record time (I hope!)[8D]

Dion

Quote:
ORIGINAL: Heavy Date

If the model has been flown, where are the pics of the completed model and flight pics? Plus what was the all up weight , engines used, and flight reports? You would think he would post that info right away.



The Smith is 138" and a sound proven flyer. The build is not bad at all, and the scale details are pretty close to full scale. This is what I have now.

The new Wingspan plan is a very nice drawing, but I have never seen one built or flown. There are a few things I see on the plan that wave a red flag at me right off the bat, but until we see a flight report, it is all just opinion. I'm curious as to power, all up weight, how it flew and if the inboard engines died in a turn.
dionysusbacchus is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2005, 01:06 PM
  #22
dionysusbacchus
 
dionysusbacchus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: McQueeney, TX
Posts: 2,356
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: B-17 kit or plans?

Sorry, posted twice!
dionysusbacchus is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2005, 02:21 PM
  #23
Heavy Date
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Derry, NH
Posts: 109
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: B-17 kit or plans?

Dion,
The main things I see that get my mind going is that there are way to many parts behind the CG. All those formers and tail parts, even though light, add up to huge amounts of nose weight. The B-17 has a very long tail moment and a short nose moment. Anything way back in the tail will need about 3 or 4 times it's weight up in the nose to balance it out. The second thing is more serious, but can be fixed. He has the inboard fuel tanks shown mounted sideways. Major no-no. A sure way to loose the inboard engines in a turn. He would be better to put them in the leading edge of the wing next to the nacelles. They would be closer to the engines as well. The last thing is it looks like he is trying to use scale airfoils. NACA0018 for the wing and NACA0011 for the tail. These are fully symetrical airfoils and may present a problem on a multi engine model, I'm not sure of course as I have never tried this, but I feel a semi symetrical would give more lift and better flying qualities. It seems to high performance of an airfoil for something that can loose an engine in flight. Things happen fast with a multi when an engine goes out. I have 2 trash bags full of P-38s to prove it

I have only seen the plans here and at the Wingspan site and that is all I really see that stands right out. They are great drawings and if the test flights went well, including engine out tests, he will sell many sets.
Hans
Heavy Date is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2005, 04:51 PM
  #24
dionysusbacchus
 
dionysusbacchus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: McQueeney, TX
Posts: 2,356
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: B-17 kit or plans?

Thanks Hans, great info! I need to learn all I can. I was told that the Don Smith B-17 uses an arbitrary airfoil copied from a small model that was used to draw the plans, is that true? Do you know what it is? Mike used a $10,000 industrial CAD program to design the B-17. It figures weight and CG along with simulated flight stress on the structure, I'll ask him about that when he gets back from his touring around. I believe in highly detailed but light models, so I'll keep the weight in the tail to a minimum for sure.

Keep up the work on your B-17, it's looking great!

Thanks again for the input, I appreciate it and I'll add this to my notes!

Dion

dionysusbacchus is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2005, 05:59 AM
  #25
Heavy Date
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Derry, NH
Posts: 109
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: B-17 kit or plans?

Dion,
I have heard the same thing about the Smith model airfoil, and I think it may be true. I have not really tried to match it to my airfoil files, but it sure has a lot of lift. Most of the flying ones I have seen can get airborne in less than 50 feet, not bad for a 50+ pound model.
I agree with you about getting things as scale as you can, but there are some things that have to be changed to assure a good flying model. We just have to live with it.
Hans
Heavy Date is offline  
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 09:15 AM.