JR Custom Products F7F Tigercat
06-01-2005, 09:20 AM
#1
JR Custom Products F7F Tigercat
I just accquirred a JR Custom Products F7F Tigercat it has a span of about 69" and has a glass fuse with balsa sheeted foam wings. Does anybody have any info on the kit or MFG? I have some questions that I need answered before I can continue on this project.
Sparky
Sparky
06-01-2005, 09:38 AM
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RE: JR Custom Products F7F Tigercat
Tim:
If "About" 69 inches could be 65" span, the length is 56 1/2", and these pctures look familiar, what you have could be the Bridi F7F repackaged. This is the one I'm still trying to get the radial engines for.
Questions? I'll answer if I can.
Bill.
If "About" 69 inches could be 65" span, the length is 56 1/2", and these pctures look familiar, what you have could be the Bridi F7F repackaged. This is the one I'm still trying to get the radial engines for.
Questions? I'll answer if I can.
Bill.
06-01-2005, 11:33 AM
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RE: JR Custom Products F7F Tigercat
William Robinson - I have a question for you since you seem to know a lot about technopower radials. I have just bought a B5 off the internet and have a few questions:
A. I am wondering what plane would go well with the engine. I am considering in the order of preference
1. Sportsman Aviation Corsair 52
2. CMP (GSP, KMP) P-47
3. Top Flight AT-6 60 Size
4. Kyosho Stearman or Super Stearman
5. Sportsman Aviation WACO 60
B. How can I route my exhaust out? Is it recommended? Or am I just going to have pipes sticking out from everywhere?
C. Will I have problems with tank pressure?
D. Any other things I have to look out for? I have the version where the rockers are aluminum and only the caps are plastic. Will these over heat running on the ground?
THANKS!!!
A. I am wondering what plane would go well with the engine. I am considering in the order of preference
1. Sportsman Aviation Corsair 52
2. CMP (GSP, KMP) P-47
3. Top Flight AT-6 60 Size
4. Kyosho Stearman or Super Stearman
5. Sportsman Aviation WACO 60
B. How can I route my exhaust out? Is it recommended? Or am I just going to have pipes sticking out from everywhere?
C. Will I have problems with tank pressure?
D. Any other things I have to look out for? I have the version where the rockers are aluminum and only the caps are plastic. Will these over heat running on the ground?
THANKS!!!
06-01-2005, 03:37 PM
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RE: JR Custom Products F7F Tigercat
Eugene:
You are in the right size range for the Technopower 5B engine, the best ones you have listed would most likely be either the WACo or the Stearman. The short nose moment usually needs nose weight with the usual engines, the TP radial has the weight. The power goes along with the size of the planes you are considering. One of the more modern planes might well be too nose heavy without weight in the tail, and then the entire plane could become too heavy to fly well. On the older biplanes they look, sound, and fly very well.
I suppose I do know a fair bit about them, but a lot of it is from failure analysis.
Overheating is a fact of life with the Technopower engines, get used to it. You can not leave them running on the ground very long. Start it, do your ground checks, taxi out and take off. No problem that way.
Yours with the cast rocker boxes is a great improvement over the originals, but you still have the steel sleeves inside the aluminum finned muffs. The latest version has one piece cylinders, all aluminum with chromed bores. Much better.
Your engine also has a cast master con rod. This is the last weak point that has been addressed. With the cast rod you are almost guaranteed a problem if you let the engine run over 6000 rpm. The latest production uses a billet rod, the latest ones will run at 8000 rpm happily. As a result, the latest engines also are a LOT more powerful than the older ones.
So what can you do? Marc Linville has stopped production of all the five cylinder engines, but you might be able to talk him into doing a one-off billet rod for your engine. That would be the greatest improvement possible. I don';t have the specification sheets handy, but as I remember one of the sevens has the same cylinder bore yours does, if you can get five AAC cylinder sets for your engine along with the billet rod you will have a great engine. All the new cylinders are also anodized black, an improvement in looks too. I'll warn you in advance, it is not an engine for an amateur to take apart and reassemble. Might be able to talk Marc into doing the upgrade for you. Remember too, the cost will not be pocket change.
If all this upgrade talk scares you I'm sorry. It is still an excellent engine just the way you have it, don't be afraid to fly it and enjoy it in the stock condition. Just be aware of the limitations and it will give you good service.
One further thing - keep the oil around 10%, 15% is too much after break-in. A synthetic/castor blend is fine. Minimum nitro, 5% is plenty.
Bill.
You are in the right size range for the Technopower 5B engine, the best ones you have listed would most likely be either the WACo or the Stearman. The short nose moment usually needs nose weight with the usual engines, the TP radial has the weight. The power goes along with the size of the planes you are considering. One of the more modern planes might well be too nose heavy without weight in the tail, and then the entire plane could become too heavy to fly well. On the older biplanes they look, sound, and fly very well.
I suppose I do know a fair bit about them, but a lot of it is from failure analysis.
Overheating is a fact of life with the Technopower engines, get used to it. You can not leave them running on the ground very long. Start it, do your ground checks, taxi out and take off. No problem that way.
Yours with the cast rocker boxes is a great improvement over the originals, but you still have the steel sleeves inside the aluminum finned muffs. The latest version has one piece cylinders, all aluminum with chromed bores. Much better.
Your engine also has a cast master con rod. This is the last weak point that has been addressed. With the cast rod you are almost guaranteed a problem if you let the engine run over 6000 rpm. The latest production uses a billet rod, the latest ones will run at 8000 rpm happily. As a result, the latest engines also are a LOT more powerful than the older ones.
So what can you do? Marc Linville has stopped production of all the five cylinder engines, but you might be able to talk him into doing a one-off billet rod for your engine. That would be the greatest improvement possible. I don';t have the specification sheets handy, but as I remember one of the sevens has the same cylinder bore yours does, if you can get five AAC cylinder sets for your engine along with the billet rod you will have a great engine. All the new cylinders are also anodized black, an improvement in looks too. I'll warn you in advance, it is not an engine for an amateur to take apart and reassemble. Might be able to talk Marc into doing the upgrade for you. Remember too, the cost will not be pocket change.
If all this upgrade talk scares you I'm sorry. It is still an excellent engine just the way you have it, don't be afraid to fly it and enjoy it in the stock condition. Just be aware of the limitations and it will give you good service.
One further thing - keep the oil around 10%, 15% is too much after break-in. A synthetic/castor blend is fine. Minimum nitro, 5% is plenty.
Bill.
06-01-2005, 03:53 PM
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RE: JR Custom Products F7F Tigercat
Eugene:
Sorry, missed two points.
You do not need pressure feed on the fuel and that's good - there's no way to get any pressure from the stock engines. Not only is the crank case a constant volume, the fuel/air mixture is fed into the crankcase from the carb, the individual cylinder intake pipes pull it from the crank case.
This method of intake distribution is a definitely good design. Radials classically have distribution problems, with the upper cylinders going lean and the lower ones tending to flood. Most "Real" radials have what most would think to be a supercharger, a fan in the manifold. It can be driven to be a supercharger, but its main function is to keep the fuel and air evenly mixed and delivered to all the cylinders. It's called a "Diffuser." By feeding the mix into the crankcase TP uses the crank and rods as its diffuser, and also gives positive lubrication to the internals with fresh oil instead of what is blown past the rings in an ordinary model four stroke. The only other model radial using a diffuser, that I know of, is the Saito FA-325R5, it actually has a fan instead of using the crank and rods though.
Exhaust. The exhaust stacks are glued into the heads on the Technopower engines. This leaves just a few options. You can make a collector ring with stubs to slide on the existing exhaust stacks, Keeleo Creations will make one for you, or you can live with the five stacks.
Bill.
Sorry, missed two points.
You do not need pressure feed on the fuel and that's good - there's no way to get any pressure from the stock engines. Not only is the crank case a constant volume, the fuel/air mixture is fed into the crankcase from the carb, the individual cylinder intake pipes pull it from the crank case.
This method of intake distribution is a definitely good design. Radials classically have distribution problems, with the upper cylinders going lean and the lower ones tending to flood. Most "Real" radials have what most would think to be a supercharger, a fan in the manifold. It can be driven to be a supercharger, but its main function is to keep the fuel and air evenly mixed and delivered to all the cylinders. It's called a "Diffuser." By feeding the mix into the crankcase TP uses the crank and rods as its diffuser, and also gives positive lubrication to the internals with fresh oil instead of what is blown past the rings in an ordinary model four stroke. The only other model radial using a diffuser, that I know of, is the Saito FA-325R5, it actually has a fan instead of using the crank and rods though.
Exhaust. The exhaust stacks are glued into the heads on the Technopower engines. This leaves just a few options. You can make a collector ring with stubs to slide on the existing exhaust stacks, Keeleo Creations will make one for you, or you can live with the five stacks.
Bill.
06-01-2005, 11:31 PM
#6
RE: JR Custom Products F7F Tigercat
Bill,
I'm pretty sure that the planes may be the same. I'm real unhappy with the previous builders workmanship on the sheeted wings. I think the simple answer is to make anew wing. I was wondering if I can get patterns of the foam cores so That I can cut new wings? Let me know what the costs may be or if you trust me send me the cores and I will make copies as well or do you have an extra set or know some one who has extra cores etc. etc. etc.
In my examination of the plane it appears that the engines are monted to the subframe and the engine nacels are just there for show. The firewalls don't touch and get glassed in to nacells.
I have the century jet retracts and they look really good. I am thinking of going electric. Big power, Big batteries to do justice to the plane. Maybe even an engine noise maker.
Sparky
I'm pretty sure that the planes may be the same. I'm real unhappy with the previous builders workmanship on the sheeted wings. I think the simple answer is to make anew wing. I was wondering if I can get patterns of the foam cores so That I can cut new wings? Let me know what the costs may be or if you trust me send me the cores and I will make copies as well or do you have an extra set or know some one who has extra cores etc. etc. etc.
In my examination of the plane it appears that the engines are monted to the subframe and the engine nacels are just there for show. The firewalls don't touch and get glassed in to nacells.
I have the century jet retracts and they look really good. I am thinking of going electric. Big power, Big batteries to do justice to the plane. Maybe even an engine noise maker.
Sparky
06-02-2005, 05:04 AM
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RE: JR Custom Products F7F Tigercat
William Robinson - are you telling me that i shouldn't be running the engine past 6000rpm? 14 x 6 at 6000 rpm isn't great power. Do you think i can prop it up so that full throttle is at 6000rpm or still prop it so WOT is at 8000 but then fly it at only 6000rpm? I have one delivered in 1994.
"the cost will not be pocket change" lol - I don't think he'd like to receive in pocket change even if i had it. I'm sure for whatever he'll charge for the cylinder heads and crank, I could buy a saito radial!!!
elmshoot - sorry to semi hijack your thread.
"the cost will not be pocket change" lol - I don't think he'd like to receive in pocket change even if i had it. I'm sure for whatever he'll charge for the cylinder heads and crank, I could buy a saito radial!!!
elmshoot - sorry to semi hijack your thread.
06-02-2005, 09:32 AM
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RE: JR Custom Products F7F Tigercat
ORIGINAL: elmshoot
Bill,
I'm pretty sure that the planes may be the same. I'm real unhappy with the previous builders workmanship on the sheeted wings. I think the simple answer is to make anew wing. I was wondering if I can get patterns of the foam cores so That I can cut new wings? Let me know what the costs may be or if you trust me send me the cores and I will make copies as well or do you have an extra set or know some one who has extra cores etc. etc. etc.
In my examination of the plane it appears that the engines are monted to the subframe and the engine nacels are just there for show. The firewalls don't touch and get glassed in to nacells.
I have the century jet retracts and they look really good. I am thinking of going electric. Big power, Big batteries to do justice to the plane. Maybe even an engine noise maker.
Sparky
Bill,
I'm pretty sure that the planes may be the same. I'm real unhappy with the previous builders workmanship on the sheeted wings. I think the simple answer is to make anew wing. I was wondering if I can get patterns of the foam cores so That I can cut new wings? Let me know what the costs may be or if you trust me send me the cores and I will make copies as well or do you have an extra set or know some one who has extra cores etc. etc. etc.
In my examination of the plane it appears that the engines are monted to the subframe and the engine nacels are just there for show. The firewalls don't touch and get glassed in to nacells.
I have the century jet retracts and they look really good. I am thinking of going electric. Big power, Big batteries to do justice to the plane. Maybe even an engine noise maker.
Sparky
06-02-2005, 10:11 AM
#9
RE: JR Custom Products F7F Tigercat
Randy,
lets give it a try my FAx/ phone # is 812 988 2377. I will need the rough dimensions that you have for the cores as well including wing sweep. This is my phone # so it may take 2 tries to get through. Give me an idea when you are going to fax and I will keep clear of the phone so it will go through the first time.
Sparky
lets give it a try my FAx/ phone # is 812 988 2377. I will need the rough dimensions that you have for the cores as well including wing sweep. This is my phone # so it may take 2 tries to get through. Give me an idea when you are going to fax and I will keep clear of the phone so it will go through the first time.
Sparky
06-02-2005, 11:17 AM
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RE: JR Custom Products F7F Tigercat
Eugene:
6000 rpm is the most you should turn it. Prop it for 6K at WOT on the ground, then be careful not to overspeed the engine in flight.
I will not guarantee you'll break the master rod if you turn it to 6100 rpm, but at 8K you most likely will have a problem.
Cost? Call Marc. Cost you just a few cents, and he's the one who makes the things so he knows far better than I.
Bill.
6000 rpm is the most you should turn it. Prop it for 6K at WOT on the ground, then be careful not to overspeed the engine in flight.
I will not guarantee you'll break the master rod if you turn it to 6100 rpm, but at 8K you most likely will have a problem.
Cost? Call Marc. Cost you just a few cents, and he's the one who makes the things so he knows far better than I.
Bill.
06-02-2005, 11:22 AM
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RE: JR Custom Products F7F Tigercat
Tim:
I have three sets of plans for the Bridi F7F, I can send you one set if you'd like. I was thinking the same as Randy - all you need is the tip and root shapes plus the outline to cut a new set of cores. Incidentally, the plan I have is two sheets, full size.
Your speaking of the structure inside the nacelles makes me think yours is a different plane. The Bridi design uses the shell of the nacelle as the structure. The firewall fastens to the shell, the bulkhead for the landing gear also is glued to the skin of the nacelle. Finally, the nacelle shell is glued to the wing skin.
Bill.
I have three sets of plans for the Bridi F7F, I can send you one set if you'd like. I was thinking the same as Randy - all you need is the tip and root shapes plus the outline to cut a new set of cores. Incidentally, the plan I have is two sheets, full size.
Your speaking of the structure inside the nacelles makes me think yours is a different plane. The Bridi design uses the shell of the nacelle as the structure. The firewall fastens to the shell, the bulkhead for the landing gear also is glued to the skin of the nacelle. Finally, the nacelle shell is glued to the wing skin.
Bill.
06-02-2005, 05:18 PM
#12
RE: JR Custom Products F7F Tigercat
I'm very familiar with this particular kit: JR Custom Products were manufactured by a fellow named Ed Hooper from the Tucson (AZ) area. I don't think it's a repackaged Bridi kit because Ed made the plugs and molds himself. The officers at the SWRA should know how to reach him:
http://www.swraracing.com/
I've flown one and can refer you to someone who's built one if need be. I also know of someone who has a complete kit.
It's a fine flyer and even at 19 pounds it didn't have any bad habits; takeoffs were a cinch, didn't snap when pushed, and landed steeply but predictably (with or without flaps). This one radared at 160 mph with a pair of nitro-guzzling YS 1.20s.
http://www.swraracing.com/
I've flown one and can refer you to someone who's built one if need be. I also know of someone who has a complete kit.
It's a fine flyer and even at 19 pounds it didn't have any bad habits; takeoffs were a cinch, didn't snap when pushed, and landed steeply but predictably (with or without flaps). This one radared at 160 mph with a pair of nitro-guzzling YS 1.20s.
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06-02-2005, 09:20 PM
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RE: JR Custom Products F7F Tigercat
William Robinson - I will do that. I guess I will need a 14 x 8 prop then. Thanks a LOT for your help. I'd hate hate to ruin the engine before it ever leaves the ground! I will write to marc since I'm in Taiwan. Also, I normally use 15% or 30% heli fuel (cool power) straight up. will i need to add castor? is that just normal motor oil (not synthetic) from like pep boys or walmart? Thanks!
06-02-2005, 10:34 PM
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RE: JR Custom Products F7F Tigercat
Eugene:
I spent many a happy hour in the Hsi Men Ting. I lived in T'aiPei many years ago.
Marc's recommended fuel is 7% oil, no more than 5% nitromethane, with the balance methanol. The oil, again per Marc, is synthetic. I still prefer using some castor oil in the mix, 7% synthetic with 3% castor giving a total oil content of 10%.
No, it is not ordinary motor oil either, whether synthetic or refined from crude. Most "Motor" oils won't mix well with the methanol. If you want to experiment and find one that will, do it in some cheap OS engine, not your nice radial. If it comes to that I'd be inclined to check the "Two Stroke" oils first, as they probably have the least additives.
I used to buy methanol and castor in the West Gate market area and mix my own "Standard" fuel, the nitro probably can be found there too. Everything else is there somewhere. You might even find someone selling Klotz oils. Or the Aerosynth that Jaka likes so much.
If all else fails just stay with a good grade of castor, run it 8-10% content. Nitro also is not necessary.
Good hunting.
Bill.
I spent many a happy hour in the Hsi Men Ting. I lived in T'aiPei many years ago.
Marc's recommended fuel is 7% oil, no more than 5% nitromethane, with the balance methanol. The oil, again per Marc, is synthetic. I still prefer using some castor oil in the mix, 7% synthetic with 3% castor giving a total oil content of 10%.
No, it is not ordinary motor oil either, whether synthetic or refined from crude. Most "Motor" oils won't mix well with the methanol. If you want to experiment and find one that will, do it in some cheap OS engine, not your nice radial. If it comes to that I'd be inclined to check the "Two Stroke" oils first, as they probably have the least additives.
I used to buy methanol and castor in the West Gate market area and mix my own "Standard" fuel, the nitro probably can be found there too. Everything else is there somewhere. You might even find someone selling Klotz oils. Or the Aerosynth that Jaka likes so much.
If all else fails just stay with a good grade of castor, run it 8-10% content. Nitro also is not necessary.
Good hunting.
Bill.
06-02-2005, 10:57 PM
#15
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RE: JR Custom Products F7F Tigercat
ORIGINAL: William Robison
Eugene:
I spent many a happy hour in the Hsi Men Ting. I lived in T'aiPei many years ago.
Marc's recommended fuel is 7% oil, no more than 5% nitromethane, with the balance methanol. The oil, again per Marc, is synthetic. I still prefer using some castor oil in the mix, 7% synthetic with 3% castor giving a total oil content of 10%.
No, it is not ordinary motor oil either, whether synthetic or refined from crude. Most "Motor" oils won't mix well with the methanol. If you want to experiment and find one that will, do it in some cheap OS engine, not your nice radial. If it comes to that I'd be inclined to check the "Two Stroke" oils first, as they probably have the least additives.
I used to buy methanol and castor in the West Gate market area and mix my own "Standard" fuel, the nitro probably can be found there too. Everything else is there somewhere. You might even find someone selling Klotz oils. Or the Aerosynth that Jaka likes so much.
If all else fails just stay with a good grade of castor, run it 8-10% content. Nitro also is not necessary.
Good hunting.
Bill.
Eugene:
I spent many a happy hour in the Hsi Men Ting. I lived in T'aiPei many years ago.
Marc's recommended fuel is 7% oil, no more than 5% nitromethane, with the balance methanol. The oil, again per Marc, is synthetic. I still prefer using some castor oil in the mix, 7% synthetic with 3% castor giving a total oil content of 10%.
No, it is not ordinary motor oil either, whether synthetic or refined from crude. Most "Motor" oils won't mix well with the methanol. If you want to experiment and find one that will, do it in some cheap OS engine, not your nice radial. If it comes to that I'd be inclined to check the "Two Stroke" oils first, as they probably have the least additives.
I used to buy methanol and castor in the West Gate market area and mix my own "Standard" fuel, the nitro probably can be found there too. Everything else is there somewhere. You might even find someone selling Klotz oils. Or the Aerosynth that Jaka likes so much.
If all else fails just stay with a good grade of castor, run it 8-10% content. Nitro also is not necessary.
Good hunting.
Bill.
06-03-2005, 09:52 AM
#17
RE: JR Custom Products F7F Tigercat
Bill,
I have no Idea why there is a discussion about engines on this thread maybe you could move it over to another forum more approiate.
T,
Thanks for the lead. I have sent the officers at SWRA a request to get ahold of Ed. I hope it works out. I may need your help again if they can't help me out. I was thinking I need a plane that will go about 90-100 mph. 160 MPH will be too $$$$
Sparky
I have no Idea why there is a discussion about engines on this thread maybe you could move it over to another forum more approiate.
T,
Thanks for the lead. I have sent the officers at SWRA a request to get ahold of Ed. I hope it works out. I may need your help again if they can't help me out. I was thinking I need a plane that will go about 90-100 mph. 160 MPH will be too $$$$
Sparky
06-03-2005, 10:35 AM
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RE: JR Custom Products F7F Tigercat
Tim:
You're right - I should have had forestroke take it to the engines area. I've copied all the engine posts here to Glow Engines, and deleted them from this thread.
You didn't say - are you interested in a set of the Bridi plans?
Bill
You're right - I should have had forestroke take it to the engines area. I've copied all the engine posts here to Glow Engines, and deleted them from this thread.
You didn't say - are you interested in a set of the Bridi plans?
Bill
06-03-2005, 10:36 AM
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RE: JR Custom Products F7F Tigercat
forestroke:
Click [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_3038697/anchors_3038733/mpage_1/key_/anchor/tm.htm#3038733]here[/link] to go to our engine discussion.
Thanks.
Bilkl.
Click [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_3038697/anchors_3038733/mpage_1/key_/anchor/tm.htm#3038733]here[/link] to go to our engine discussion.
Thanks.
Bilkl.
06-03-2005, 02:27 PM
#20
RE: JR Custom Products F7F Tigercat
Bill,
Not to pick on you but I do appriciate that you moved the other thread over to the 4 stroke section. Maybe some one else can learn from the discussion. It sounds like the plane I have is is not a Bridi F7F but a slightly larger version. See post #7 for more info.
Now I just hope that the leads I have will payout.
Sparky
Not to pick on you but I do appriciate that you moved the other thread over to the 4 stroke section. Maybe some one else can learn from the discussion. It sounds like the plane I have is is not a Bridi F7F but a slightly larger version. See post #7 for more info.
Now I just hope that the leads I have will payout.
Sparky
08-03-2012, 07:03 AM
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RE: JR Custom Products F7F Tigercat
I have one of Ed Hoopers jr custom tigercats. I had custom scale landing gear made for it and have the kit safely stored. Probably going electric when I get to her. Its a very nice kit, nice glass fuse and nacelles, quality glass work.
