Marutaka P-61 Black Widow
11-06-2002, 12:15 AM
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Marutaka P-61 Black Widow
Not the Black Widow but I had a Marutaka kit that I later sold at a swap meet. I used to take the parts out and fondle them lovingly.
These are BEAUTIFULLY cut kits.
These are BEAUTIFULLY cut kits.
11-09-2002, 07:06 AM
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Marutaka P-61 Black Widow
EASYTIGER:
I'm pretty sure that Marutaka was always the manufacturer; Royal was the U.S. importer.
Which "smaller" one do you plan to scratch build first? I wonder if it's the same set of plans I've got.....
I'm pretty sure that Marutaka was always the manufacturer; Royal was the U.S. importer.
Which "smaller" one do you plan to scratch build first? I wonder if it's the same set of plans I've got.....
11-09-2002, 07:44 AM
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Marutaka P-61 Black Widow
That is correct, Royal was only the importer, no confusion there.
I have the nasty old remains of a Eureka CL one, that will be my smaller one. Some years back, I built a 60" one from RCM plans, was very nice. Two saito 30's.
I have the nasty old remains of a Eureka CL one, that will be my smaller one. Some years back, I built a 60" one from RCM plans, was very nice. Two saito 30's.
11-10-2002, 02:50 AM
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Marutaka P-61 Black Widow
I agree, but since I don't have any plans for the Eureka one, and it's a fifty year old control line kit, part built, with only the booms, part of the center fuse, and two warpy canopies, I'm definitely going to stretch a little and say it is scratch!
11-10-2002, 03:22 AM
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Marutaka P-61 Black Widow
OK, Easytiger, we'll let you get away with it this time, but only because of the "Tiger" in your handle. (Laugh)
With a PAIR, You're going somewhere!!
With a PAIR, You're going somewhere!!
11-12-2002, 04:08 PM
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Marutaka P-61 Black Widow
By the way, I totally AGREE with you about the different definition of scratch- versus plans-built. BUT...there was a thread about it on RCO a couple of years back, and I got shouted down, for sure. Evidently the definition of scratch built changed over the years to include plans built, too. To me, there is a BIG difference. But what can you do? Hey, GAY used to mean happy, but it ain't that no more...
11-12-2002, 06:24 PM
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Marutaka P-61 Black Widow
It's Easytiger again. Hi! You're right, GAY used to be a nice word. Hvae you ever met a "Gay" who was truly, consistently happy? You wont. Yes, many words have had their usage changed. I am a native American without a drop os Indian blood. Liberal used to mean easygoing, now all the Communists call thenselves liberals. And so forth.
What can we do? Cry. Try to get better teachers. Give up. Oh wel, maybe in the next world...
With Twins you have WINS!
WLR
What can we do? Cry. Try to get better teachers. Give up. Oh wel, maybe in the next world...
With Twins you have WINS!
WLR
12-01-2002, 07:00 PM
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Marutaka P-61 Black Widow
"If it's built from someone else's plans IT AINT SCRATCH BUILT!! "
Yeah! If you didn't mill your own wood from the trunk stock of the balsa tree I'm not impressed! People thinking they made something when all they use is stock wood off the shelf make me sick.
LOL
So If I make a cake from a recipe out of a cook book I can't say I made it from scratch?
Yeah! If you didn't mill your own wood from the trunk stock of the balsa tree I'm not impressed! People thinking they made something when all they use is stock wood off the shelf make me sick.
LOL
So If I make a cake from a recipe out of a cook book I can't say I made it from scratch?
12-01-2002, 07:23 PM
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Marutaka P-61 Black Widow
....and you have to forge, cast, and machine your own engines...none of this arf stuff...taking it out of the box and bolting it on..... 
12-01-2002, 08:29 PM
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Marutaka P-61 Black Widow
Gentlemen (?):
. Cooking:
Cake from a mix = ARF
Cake with recipe= Kit
Cake, no recipe = Scratch
. Airplanes:
Plans with supplied wood = Kit
Plans, you supply wood = Assembled kit/Plan bult
Plans you draw, or no plans = Scratch
. Engines:
Out of a box = ARF
You machine from castings set = Kit
You machine from plain metal and/or pour your own castings to someone else's design = Assembled kit/plan built
Your own design = Scratch.
They are just words, folks, but they should be used correctly. No, you don't have to cut your own tree down, and you don't have to refine your own ore to get metal for the engine. It's just that "Scratch" means built to your own design or plan, not someone else's.
A twin from your own plan, now that's scratch, man.
WLR
. Cooking:
Cake from a mix = ARF
Cake with recipe= Kit
Cake, no recipe = Scratch
. Airplanes:
Plans with supplied wood = Kit
Plans, you supply wood = Assembled kit/Plan bult
Plans you draw, or no plans = Scratch
. Engines:
Out of a box = ARF
You machine from castings set = Kit
You machine from plain metal and/or pour your own castings to someone else's design = Assembled kit/plan built
Your own design = Scratch.
They are just words, folks, but they should be used correctly. No, you don't have to cut your own tree down, and you don't have to refine your own ore to get metal for the engine. It's just that "Scratch" means built to your own design or plan, not someone else's.
A twin from your own plan, now that's scratch, man.
WLR
12-02-2002, 04:46 AM
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scratch build
Picky Picky Picky Picky guess what if you build it from non-diecut parts then I feel that it is scratch built.Besides if it flys and looks good what the heck. Give the person the credit if deserved it. My .02cents worth. 
12-02-2002, 05:10 AM
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Marutaka P-61 Black Widow
I agree with you 100% William...except this: 90% of other people will disagree. Somewhere along the line in the last twenty years, the word CHANGED. It did. I do not LIKE the change, but there it is, anyway.
I don't care at all for the "if you did not cut down the tree yourself" analogy, it's totally silly to me.
It's just like you said:
Scrach built versus plans built versus kit built. Three totally differnent things.
Now we lost a word. Now scratch built means "anything but a kit." Sad. Now we need to use more words to get our point across. I now have to ASK what somebody means when they say "scratch built". Oh, well. Not worth arguing over, the deal is done. We beat this to death on RCO a few years back. Too bad.
I don't care at all for the "if you did not cut down the tree yourself" analogy, it's totally silly to me.
It's just like you said:
Scrach built versus plans built versus kit built. Three totally differnent things.
Now we lost a word. Now scratch built means "anything but a kit." Sad. Now we need to use more words to get our point across. I now have to ASK what somebody means when they say "scratch built". Oh, well. Not worth arguing over, the deal is done. We beat this to death on RCO a few years back. Too bad.
12-02-2002, 05:26 AM
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Marutaka P-61 Black Widow
Hello Easy. I've missed "seeing" you lately.
Have you heard of the "Dumbing Down of America?"
I rest my case.
If your twin's from scratch, it's something no one can match!
Bill
Have you heard of the "Dumbing Down of America?"
I rest my case.
If your twin's from scratch, it's something no one can match!
Bill
12-02-2002, 05:39 AM
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Marutaka P-61 Black Widow
No, I have not read "Dumbing Down". I'm going to wait for the movie, or just read the Cliff's notes!
The Black Widow is almost done...pics later this week. Just ordered up a Heritage Dauntless, too.
Almost done with a Royal Tony. I am in a real wood-bashing mood, have framed out some five planes in the past two weeks, have to ride that mood while it lasts!
Now I have to wait till I get into a cover and paint mood before finishing them all!
The Black Widow is almost done...pics later this week. Just ordered up a Heritage Dauntless, too.
Almost done with a Royal Tony. I am in a real wood-bashing mood, have framed out some five planes in the past two weeks, have to ride that mood while it lasts!
Now I have to wait till I get into a cover and paint mood before finishing them all!
12-02-2002, 05:57 AM
#18
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Ziroli P-61
I gave up on the Marutaka P-61 and am in the process of acquiring a Ziroli P-61 kit (Aeroplane Works kit plus all the goodies).
Even though it won't be SCRATCH BUILT or even PLANS BUILT it's still a lumberyard and will undoubtedly be quite an undertaking. The fact that it's a Ziroli design guarantees that it will fly halfway decent. The Aeroplane Works kit means that I won't have to spend the rest of my life cutting out parts (!).
I just want a Widow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Has anyone out there built one of THESE?????????
Even though it won't be SCRATCH BUILT or even PLANS BUILT it's still a lumberyard and will undoubtedly be quite an undertaking. The fact that it's a Ziroli design guarantees that it will fly halfway decent. The Aeroplane Works kit means that I won't have to spend the rest of my life cutting out parts (!).
I just want a Widow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Has anyone out there built one of THESE?????????
12-02-2002, 06:08 AM
#20
Thread Starter
Marutaka P-61 Black Widow
No I don't have a part-built Marutaka P-61 (I was only THINKING about getting one of the kits).
I know the Ziroli design flies well. Charlie's Widow was built from modified Don Smith Plans (it was smaller than Ziroli's).
I would have preferred to go with the Don Smith design (because it's smaller) but I ran across this Ziroli kit for a reasonable price so I snatched it up.
I know the Ziroli design flies well. Charlie's Widow was built from modified Don Smith Plans (it was smaller than Ziroli's).
I would have preferred to go with the Don Smith design (because it's smaller) but I ran across this Ziroli kit for a reasonable price so I snatched it up.
12-02-2002, 06:14 AM
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Marutaka P-61 Black Widow
Ziroli's prototype was a real kitten in the air. I think that either of the big ones would be, of course, EASIER to fly than the Marutaka one. Or my new 54" one. The design itself seems to have no bad habits, you can't go wrong.
12-02-2002, 06:15 AM
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Easy, they scrapped the plans for the movie version, nobody was smart enough to learn the lines. And Cliff isn't going to publish notes, says no one is learning to read anymore.
Got confirmation from Joe Bridi a couple days ago, afraid it wont be a P-61, but I'll have a nice Semi-Giant scale Tigercat when it's done - should arrive mid-January.
T-pacini, what are your plans for the remains of your Marutaka kit?
From plans or scratch, twins have no match.
Bill
Got confirmation from Joe Bridi a couple days ago, afraid it wont be a P-61, but I'll have a nice Semi-Giant scale Tigercat when it's done - should arrive mid-January.
T-pacini, what are your plans for the remains of your Marutaka kit?
From plans or scratch, twins have no match.
Bill
12-10-2002, 06:01 AM
#23
Thread Starter
Marutaka P-61
Mr. Robison,
Sorry that I was unclear in earlier posts: I was only THINKING of getting a Marutaka P-61. I ended up getting an Aeroplane Works kit of the Ziroli P-61. OH MY GOSH! WHAT A LUMBERYARD! It will be truly magnificent if I can ever figure out how to build it....
Sorry that I was unclear in earlier posts: I was only THINKING of getting a Marutaka P-61. I ended up getting an Aeroplane Works kit of the Ziroli P-61. OH MY GOSH! WHAT A LUMBERYARD! It will be truly magnificent if I can ever figure out how to build it....
12-13-2002, 05:10 AM
#24
Marutaka P-61 Black Widow
You know guys... I have never been able to figure out why this plane is so attractive, so interesting, so American as Apple Pie, but modeled so little! I've never seen one in my neck of the woods yet. It's got to be as fun and simple to build as say a P-38, and as easy to fly. But P-38's I've seen galore!
T-Pacini, keep us posted on this interesting project.
But P-38's I've seen galore!T-Pacini, keep us posted on this interesting project.
12-13-2002, 06:35 AM
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RandallM:
I don't think it will be as easy to fly. Nor to build, if it's scale. Not only more little doojiggers to model, but if you install ailerons it's no longer scale.
To the best of my knowledge, the Northrop P-61 is the only plane ever built with nothing but spoilers for roll control. I may be wrong but I can't see how it could possibly be as easily flown as a plane with conventional ailerons, especially going past a 90 degree bank or in inverted flight. And yes, even though it was a "Night" fighter it was still fully aerobatic. But I could be wrong, as I said.
For a twin in black, do we need a man in ... never mind.
Bill.
Originally posted by RandallM.
You know guys... I have never been able to figure out why this plane is so attractive, so interesting, so American as Apple Pie, but modeled so little! I've never seen one in my neck of the woods yet. It's got to be as fun and simple to build as say a P-38, and as easy to fly. But P-38's I've seen galore!
You know guys... I have never been able to figure out why this plane is so attractive, so interesting, so American as Apple Pie, but modeled so little! I've never seen one in my neck of the woods yet. It's got to be as fun and simple to build as say a P-38, and as easy to fly.
But P-38's I've seen galore!
To the best of my knowledge, the Northrop P-61 is the only plane ever built with nothing but spoilers for roll control. I may be wrong but I can't see how it could possibly be as easily flown as a plane with conventional ailerons, especially going past a 90 degree bank or in inverted flight. And yes, even though it was a "Night" fighter it was still fully aerobatic. But I could be wrong, as I said.
For a twin in black, do we need a man in ... never mind.
Bill.