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Seagull's "Dual Ace"

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Old 11-11-2008, 07:56 AM
  #826
thisoldman
 
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Default RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"

i used 90 degree. what i had here. Ill try and get some pictures. Had spring air, but changed them over to air up and down. was going to put saito 45's on it but can not get them to idle below 3 grand. Hate those engines.. Will try two 36 evolution egines that i have here.. everything else i have is way to big.
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Old 11-14-2008, 04:35 PM
  #827
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Default RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"

pics of your retract install?
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Old 11-20-2008, 03:20 PM
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Default RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"

I just finished the Hanger 9 Fokker DVII, and at my LHS there was a later model ARF of the Dual Ace ( Came with the cheap white nose spinners) Sitting on the shelf.

Marty, co-owner of Redneck R/C was trying to push me to build this bird so I can use up my two broken- in Evolution .46 engines that needed a plane.

I didn't want the plane for the longest time do to the box picture made the ARF look cheap. I checked out this forum and found that my two pals from RCU ( Foodstick and Crashpro ) built this plane. I saw all the pictures and reviews... and I went to the hobby shop yesterday, and told Marty that the Dual Ace is now mine!

I'll be starting the build in about 3-5 weeks when I'm done paying off all the stuff I got for the Fokker.

My son was born last June and I had lost my job, now I collect unenjoyment. Marty is my friend and I was worried I would have to leave this hobby because of all good and bad luck happening to me. So I give him a little cash every week ( after paying the bills ) and I take things out on store credit. You can't do that with On-line ordering... I love LHS, and I'm glad I have a good friend who owns the shop keep me flying.

I already have it in my mind how I'm going to build this bird, I'll Post it all when I start. Like many in here... this too is my first twin. Good time and plane to start, right?



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Old 12-06-2008, 05:27 PM
  #829
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Default RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"

OK, Just picked up my DA last week and I am impressed as well of the quality of the covering. My ARF was well Hot Glued all the way around the parts that needed it.

At first I wasn't impressed about the nose gear, but after further examination... that's one stiff nose gear. It's a different steel than most ARF Landing gears I've had before, so I've decided to use it.

I've read every post on this thread... not attacking anyone here, but it seems that some of you were kind of vague on the building and not answering some of the questions people have asked about the build.

So, I'm here to answer what I can... and if I don't know the answer I'll simply write that I don't have a clue.

Someone asked a few posts back on how to put the foam around a 10oz. Sullivan Glow Tank? You are right, it's a very tight fit but it can be done.

When shoving this tank in to make it fit some modifications were needed, to make it fit right without breaking anything. First I had to remove the Engine Mount so I could Dremel the hole bigger in the Firewall. Then I had to Dremel a notch on top of the wood brace so I could slide (with great effort) the Glow tank in.

Once everything was done I put a few coats of Top Flight Fuel Proof Flat Coat around the whole thing before putting everything together. When I took off the Engine Mounts before, I noticed the screws weren't tightened down and there was no Thread Locker on the screws.

Make sure you put the Thread Locker on and tighten the engine mounts back on. You can line up the Engine Mounts the same way it was before it was removed by using the old outline of the engine mounts that were in-dented on the wooden Firewall... when the factory had first installed them. Meaning, you will see the old outline where the engine mounts were before.



Now take the foam and start stuffing the @r^p out of it. I had some extra foam that didn't come with the ARF that matched, so I used it as well. Don't be shy using this stuff... CRAM IT IN AND MAKE IT NEAT!



Once it was all shoved in, I then cut a piece of 1/16" Ply and cut a strip to go across on top of the tank to hold it in. (Make Sure you Fuel Proof this as well) and AP it in place.



Now we have a few extra minutes of flight time without running out of fuel.

More to come!

Enjoy


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Old 12-06-2008, 08:23 PM
  #830
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Default RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"

Oberst: I see that the tank is still touching wood at the top and rear (and also in the front?). If you want to isolate the tank to prevent fuel frothing you have to isolate it everywhere. If the tank touches wood anywhere, it's the same as not isolating it at all.

Try using stick on 1/8" wing saddle tape to isolate the places you missed. There might be room for that.

Jim

PS The tank can't touch the throttle pushrod housing either. That's the same as wood. You can probably leave the housing out and just run the pushrod wire through the tank compartment. That will give you more room for the tank.
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Old 12-07-2008, 07:07 AM
  #831
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Default RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"

The rear and top brace is also padded, mater in fact it's packed tightly. It is from my personal experience... I can have 10- 25% of my tanks touching wood without too much frothing... if none at all. The foam works as a damper cutting down the vibration reducing the chances of a serging engine or dead stick.

There is no question if we can get our tanks not to touch any wood at all it would be a good thing. If we can't get all the foam in there without butchering the arf up, then some of us like myself get in what we can... it's much better than no foam at all.

Just to let everyone know... I have run my birds with hardly any foam in some of my Hanger 9's and didn't have any problems. Why? because my prop and spinners are well balanced... and after I get some grass marks on the prop, they come off and I re-balance them again.


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Old 12-07-2008, 12:53 PM
  #832
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Default RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"


Quote:
Just to let everyone know... I have run my birds with hardly any foam in some of my Hanger 9's and didn't have any problems. Why? because my prop and spinners are well balanced... and after I get some grass marks on the prop, they come off and I re-balance them again.
that might be the case on this bird, but on a 4-stroke with a metal mount even all balanced out forget it, padding all way is a must
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Old 12-08-2008, 05:30 AM
  #833
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Default RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"

Hanger 9 uses metal mounts... right? I'm using my old Evolution .46 NT's on this bird and using the stock nylon mounts knowing it will help with the vibration. I just ordered 2 3/4 " 3 bladed Tru- Turns and I ordered the Master Airscrew Pre- balanced 10x7s to go with it.

I had a hand spasm yesterday while working on the DA. I dropped my safety razor and it landed right on the stabilizer fin on the rudder part... slashing the Ultra! [:@]

I happened to have the right Ultra on hand to re-cover the fin. I just have to order the dark blue and green Ultra for the stripe. Covering is one of my strong points however I must admit that the sharp angle on the fin was a challenge, until I figured it out. It came out better then what it was.

Looking at the frame when I pulled the covering off the fin, this plane has some good wood in it... better than some ARF's I've built in the past. [8D]

I also plan on making a battery tray over the Nose Gear Mount reducing lead weight in the nose. From what I read here in the forum, just about everyone complained that the DA was very tail heavy? Better safe than sorry.


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Old 12-08-2008, 07:16 AM
  #834
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Default RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"

A lot of the "tail heavy" complaints came in early on when the manual still had the incorrect CG. Unless you've gotten old stock your manual should say 105-115mm for CG. Having said that I added some engine mounts to the "firewall" inside the nosecone, bolted a piece of aluminium plate across them, and mounted the 6V NiMH battery pack and a Sub-C cell for the on-board glow there. Mine came out perfect with no added lead.

Matt
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Old 12-08-2008, 06:10 PM
  #835
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Default RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"

....two shots of ArmorAll per gallon of glow fuel will help the foaming.....Bo
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Old 12-08-2008, 07:46 PM
  #836
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Default RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"

...and kill your glow plugs.

Jim
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Old 12-08-2008, 07:52 PM
  #837
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Default RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"

....been doing it for many years and never had a plug failure...but then, I run only 10% nitro and back off the needle a little...Bo
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Old 12-08-2008, 09:09 PM
  #838
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Default RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"

cool power brand fuels have anti-foaming agents...i've never had a problem with fuel foaming using it
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Old 12-08-2008, 09:18 PM
  #839
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Default RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"

According to Clarence Lee, the silicon in the ArmorAll will glaze the element in the glow plug and the result is a slow death for the plug.

I use Cool Power also and I have had it foam. Especially in twins where the harmonic vibrations are 4 times as bad as the primary vibration.

How much risk of an engine-out should he be willing to accept? In my twins, I accept as little as possible.

Jim

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Old 12-08-2008, 09:18 PM
  #840
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Default RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"

...oh, yeah...I also put the ArmorAll in Cool Power..all I ever use....Bo
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Old 12-09-2008, 09:18 AM
  #841
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Default RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"


Quote:
How much risk of an engine-out should he be willing to accept? In my twins, I accept as little as possible.
you know on a different topic, I used to be deathly afraid of losing an engine on twin and lost my first dual ace because of it.....but I managed to learn to fly on one engine by using sim and some real engine out situations...is all about rudder/throttle mgmt...I am not afraid anymore and I actually sometimes want an engine to go out to get the change to practice it out, this model is completely fly-able on one engine

as far as foaming, I also use heavy clunk to keep it from bouncing around and dont let the tank run too low...that actually prevents a lot of the problem too
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Old 12-09-2008, 09:30 AM
  #842
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Default RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"

Hi, been following this thread for some time now while building my DA.
I am using Spring Air Retracts for my model.
Since this is my first time building with retracts, I am have a dickens of a time with a good working door for the nose gear.
I finished the main gear and it is ready.
I sure would love some input how to build the nose gear door so it will open and close with the depolyment of the nose gear.
Pictures and instructions would be super if anyone can direct me?
Keep up the posting, I read them all the time!
Thanks in advance!
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Old 12-30-2008, 03:43 PM
  #843
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Default RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"

I just finished reading all 842 postings and have certantly learned a lot from everyone (Thank You). I am currently in the process of procuring my DA and first twin engine. I should hopefully have it in the next week or so. Right now I will make the minor changes such as the 10oz tanks, pull pull rudder, 4-40 elevator, and probably some other fun stuff learned on here. Eventually I plan on adding retracts, and probably following the instructions from post #521. I like the split door and simple wire door actuator.

Yakflyer - you might want to check out posting #521 thru #525...somewhere in there is a simple wire loop that pulls the gear door shut. Its worth checking out.
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Old 12-30-2008, 03:51 PM
  #844
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Default RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"

...good luck...this is a great airframe with some mods....Bo
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Old 12-30-2008, 04:49 PM
  #845
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Default RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"

Any suggestions on what type of retracts would best fit the DA? I only have one plane that uses them now, so I'm not well versed. Although the isntall isn't going to be right now, i still want to get some ideas as what type to use. I am on the fence as to use pneumatic or try the euro- electric ones that were mentioned in a previous post. Anybody have any input?
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Old 12-31-2008, 09:32 AM
  #846
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Default RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"

Jmock,
I installed a set of Spring Air 100 retracts in my bird. They seem to be the right fit for this model. Having the insurance of spring activated gear down when air pressure is gone makes me feel safer.
Almost done with the build thanks to this forum.

I still need to build my door for the nose gear. I have not built a door for retracts before and still looking for some information. Anybody out there can direct me? I seen the one in this forum, but since I have no experience in this area I am looking for more detailed gudiance to learn.

Happy New Year everyone!
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Old 01-04-2009, 09:35 AM
  #847
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Default RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"

[Jmock - from the reading on the euro electrics that I have uncovered to date they are only good for up to 7 pounds weight. I have found some claiming to be good for 10 lbs. using the all aluminum retracts. The stories for this are they can't support the weight any better than the plastic gears and failure is in the future when used on a heavy plane. I have experiance with two planes with retracts but would be hesitant to put the electrics on my twin that I just got for Christmas. In my opinion I would use air up and spring down retracts. Keep us posted on what you decide and if you uncover some electrics that will handle the weight. DSR-46A by Sonic Electric is the one i have found to take the heaviest weight plane with a claim of 10 lbs but a long list of failures.
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Old 01-04-2009, 09:45 AM
  #848
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Default RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"

After hearing what you have to say, and doing some brief research, I think spring air retracts are the way to go. I appreciate all the help and insight. I received the DA this past weekend and can't wait to get started. It will probably be several months before I can get it flying. I have a few planes in front of this one, and with a 4 month deployment looming, I know it won't be done quickly. Besides, I want to take my time and really let this plane shine the way it should. I've already got plans for 3-blade with aluminum spinners, and fixing the window section so it's has a cleaner look. It's going to be a beauty when it's done.

James
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Old 01-04-2009, 11:12 AM
  #849
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Default RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"

James,
What branch of the service are you in ?

You'll love the DA great flier and an easy plane to do mods to. Be sure and post your mods with lots of pictures-gotta love those pictures LOL...

Here's a link to my canopy mod,
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_73.../anchor/tm.htm


Mike
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Old 01-06-2009, 10:18 AM
  #850
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Default RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"

Mike,

I'm in the Air Force, so my deployment will be tolerable. Nice canopy mod. I really can't wait to get moving on this project. I'll keep everyone posted with pics as it moves along.

James
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