Twin & Multi Engine RC Aircraft Discuss the ins & outs of building & flying multi engine rc aircraft here.

Seagull's "Dual Ace"

Reply
Old 07-15-2009, 07:46 PM
  #901
Matt-in-the-hat
 
Matt-in-the-hat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: St. CAtharines, ON, CANADA
Posts: 52
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Seagull's


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Bo Ingram

I am using 60oz digitals. The ailerons are not that big on the DA and while it's a fairly fast airframe, I would look more toward an improperly installed CA hinge....just can't see flutter if your hinge gap was not large. Did you do a pull test before the flight?

BTW...be sure to brace the long rudder pushrod.

Bo

Also I am not using Digital servos. 6 volts. Futaba 3004's standard servos = 57 oz.
Matt-in-the-hat is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2009, 07:51 PM
  #902
boingram
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Stockbridge, GA
Posts: 446
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Seagull's

...no problem with your servos....Bo
boingram is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2009, 08:08 PM
  #903
Sandmann_AU
 
Sandmann_AU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: BrisbaneQLD, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 648
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Seagull's

Good on you Matt.. the DA's probably the best of the cheaper civilian twin ARFs out there, unless you want to spend big bucks on one of those twin Cessnas with the lighting kits. Chances are this one'll be the updated one with the washers glued in place etc. Recommendations for improvements:

- Use a pull-pull rudder system to avoid the long rudder pushrod
- get a fults dual strut nosewheel
- 2 1/2" dubro wheels for mains and a 2" for the nose to replace the foamies it comes with... makes it roll easier
- dump the little 6oz tanks it comes with and get those larger flexible tanks (10oz sullivan I think? Go back through the thread to find them)
- put an on board glow in to lessen the chance of a single engine flame-out at low revs.
- use a little vaseline on the hinge pins when fitting them to ensure you don't get epoxy in the hinges. I prefer the robart point hinges but the pinned ones are fine too, and fit in better with the pre-cut CA hinge design. To reduce the gap recess the pin area into the moving surface, not the fixed one.
- If you're sealing the gap with *kote you can do it top or bottom. Top looks better when it's on the ground and you won't see it when it's flying. You can even do both top and bottom if you want to. Flex the surface downwards fully then apply it to the top... reverse it for the bottom.
- If possible use two channels for throttles with computer mixing so you can have one trim for both throttles, and a second trim for just one (easier to balance engines). You can also throw in some throttle steering by mixing the rudder with the throttles. If you do this one, assign a switch so you can disable it if you don't like it.

Mine has a pair of super tigre 40's and I needed to mount the main battery and on-board glow battery in the nose (along with an engine mount and small aluminium plate) to get it balanced at 105mm.
Sandmann_AU is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2009, 08:11 PM
  #904
JoeMamma
 
JoeMamma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Lenox Township, Michigan
Posts: 818
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Seagull's

Bo,

Good tip about the rudder pushrod. Using the stock rudder pushrod setup, there is a ton of slop ! Very poor design.

I changed mine to 4-40 wire with reinforcements. Slop free.

Joe M.
JoeMamma is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2009, 06:56 AM
  #905
kiosk
 
kiosk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: , FL
Posts: 363
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Seagull's


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Sandmann_AU

- If possible use two channels for throttles with computer mixing so you can have one trim for both throttles, and a second trim for just one (easier to balance engines). You can also throw in some throttle steering by mixing the rudder with the throttles. If you do this one, assign a switch so you can disable it if you don't like it.
i use the TWIN E function on my JR 9303 and is really nice, a must have I think for any twin...however I havent been able to use the trainer button to kill (close trim) on both engines (rather than use main THR trim)....has anyone figured this out?
kiosk is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2009, 07:16 AM
  #906
Matt-in-the-hat
 
Matt-in-the-hat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: St. CAtharines, ON, CANADA
Posts: 52
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Seagull's


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Sandmann_AU

Good on you Matt.. the DA's probably the best of the cheaper civilian twin ARFs out there, unless you want to spend big bucks on one of those twin Cessnas with the lighting kits. Chances are this one'll be the updated one with the washers glued in place etc. Recommendations for improvements:

- Use a pull-pull rudder system to avoid the long rudder pushrod
- get a fults dual strut nosewheel
- 2 1/2'' dubro wheels for mains and a 2'' for the nose to replace the foamies it comes with... makes it roll easier
- dump the little 6oz tanks it comes with and get those larger flexible tanks (10oz sullivan I think? Go back through the thread to find them)
- put an on board glow in to lessen the chance of a single engine flame-out at low revs.
- use a little vaseline on the hinge pins when fitting them to ensure you don't get epoxy in the hinges. I prefer the robart point hinges but the pinned ones are fine too, and fit in better with the pre-cut CA hinge design. To reduce the gap recess the pin area into the moving surface, not the fixed one.
- If you're sealing the gap with *kote you can do it top or bottom. Top looks better when it's on the ground and you won't see it when it's flying. You can even do both top and bottom if you want to. Flex the surface downwards fully then apply it to the top... reverse it for the bottom.
- If possible use two channels for throttles with computer mixing so you can have one trim for both throttles, and a second trim for just one (easier to balance engines). You can also throw in some throttle steering by mixing the rudder with the throttles. If you do this one, assign a switch so you can disable it if you don't like it.

Mine has a pair of super tigre 40's and I needed to mount the main battery and on-board glow battery in the nose (along with an engine mount and small aluminium plate) to get it balanced at 105mm.

Thanks for the input.

in DA #1 I used the included rudder pushrod, I will adjust to either a stiffer rod for #2 or pull pull as you suggested
DA #1 had Dubro 2.5 wheels all around, and I used a Dual strut nose wheel that I had from an old cessna kit. not sure what make it was, but I liked it.
I found the included tanks had enough fuel for a comfortale 9 minute flight and were still 1/2 full on landing, so I don;t think I need bigger tanks for the flying I do. (unless there is another reason I should change the tanks besides increased fuel capacity) I did change the tank stoppers on DA #1 to Sullivan stoppers

I had, an onboard glow system on DA #1, and will reuse on #2. 4000mah nicad. never failed me so I will re-use

I will buy some of these pinned hinges you suggest. for #2

I will seal top and bottom of ailrons with monokote as per your suggestion

Already did use 2 channels for throttle. low end RPM was 2050 and 2047 at idle, and high end was 13500 and 13475 at mid stick they both settled in at 7500 and 7650. I adjusted the end points on the servos with the computer radio to get these numbers and it seemed to work well, although I noticed that Engine #2 would spool up a little slower than #1 which caused a slight yaw left on throttle up. I might need to see if I can throttle delay #1 to compensate. I will experiment. Might be fun to try throttle stearing too, on a switch like you suggested.

I did not add a 2nd trim for the throttles, I just trimmed each individually using end points. not sure how to add a 2nd trim. I have the Futaba 9CAP if anyone has ideas on how to do that let
me know.

I will reuse my Thunder tiger .46 engines in #2. I had mine balanceed with my Onboard glow battery in the nose, and my 6V reciever battery ziptied to the 2nd bulkhead back from the nose, and it balanced somewhere etween 105 and 110mm I don;t use a balance stand I just use my fingers so it is a ballpark CG.



Matt-in-the-hat is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2009, 07:21 AM
  #907
JoeMamma
 
JoeMamma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Lenox Township, Michigan
Posts: 818
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Seagull's

kiosk,

Sorry.....can't help you out on the JR.

Somewhere here at RCU, I did a step-by-step procedure for setting up dual engine controls using a Futaba. Step #1: You must have a newer Futaba having at least 8 channels. I use the spring-loaded trainer switch to kill both engines at the same time.

If any Futaba owners are interested, I can look it up and post a link.

Joe M.
JoeMamma is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2009, 07:47 AM
  #908
JoeMamma
 
JoeMamma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Lenox Township, Michigan
Posts: 818
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Seagull's

Here's the link for setting up dual engine controls when using at least an 8-channel Futaba. I use the spring-loaded trainer switch to kill both engines at the same time.

The neatest part is using a rotary knob to fine tune and match the rpm's on both engines. A tach is not necessary when dialing it in. Believe me, you can hear it when both engines are dialed in and running at exactly the same rpm. What a sweet sound !


Refer to posts #2, #3 and #5

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_80...tm.htm#8031270

The setup procedure may be slightly complex, but take your time. It works great !!

Joe M.
JoeMamma is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2009, 08:02 AM
  #909
Yakflyer
 
Yakflyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Barnesville, GA
Posts: 191
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Seagull's

Bo,
Hodges Hobbies in Andersonville Ga has one last one on their shelf for about $110/$120 I think.
They will ship UPS no problem.
Here is their Web Site http://www.hodgeshobbies.com/
Ask for Bad Bill when you contact them.
The ARF was setting on a shelf above the monokote room. I saw it this past Saturday.
Good Luck!

BTW, on my dual ugly, I had to rebuild the engine casings. They were very week and loose.
When you get yours, pay a little extra attention to them so you want have any issues.
Yakflyer is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2009, 08:23 PM
  #910
pc55bomber
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Newcastle, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 321
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Seagull's


Quote:
ORIGINAL: kiosk


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Sandmann_AU

- If possible use two channels for throttles with computer mixing so you can have one trim for both throttles, and a second trim for just one (easier to balance engines). You can also throw in some throttle steering by mixing the rudder with the throttles. If you do this one, assign a switch so you can disable it if you don't like it.
i use the TWIN E function on my JR 9303 and is really nice, a must have I think for any twin...however I havent been able to use the trainer button to kill (close trim) on both engines (rather than use main THR trim)....has anyone figured this out?

Kiosk
Read the manual re the twin engine function, I found it easy to follow, cant remember what the set up is but there was something about setting up with trim or with out it.
Cheers
Paul
pc55bomber is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2009, 08:34 PM
  #911
pc55bomber
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Newcastle, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 321
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Seagull's

Matt
I use CA hinges in everything and never had any issues with them, but I never use the thin crappy ones that come with most arf's.
The Great Planes bulk ca hinge material with 2 x 2"x9" sheets is way thicker and makes lots of hinges.

Pinned hinges are really not required on this airframe but sealing the gap is a good idea, although mine really hammers and flies fast, I have not sealed the gaps.

I used the original landing gear and put 3" mains and 2 1/2" nose wheel and beefed up the firewall by adding another thickness of ply and also another small piece of ply where the nose bracket bolts on and its really strong.

No onboard glow fitted.
Never had any issues with the wing incidence just bolted it on and ca'd the ply reinforcing washers in place.

CG is set between 100-105mm and its easy to land with heaps of elevator authority.

All round a really good cheap well made plane.

Goodluck with DA no.2
Cheers
Paul
pc55bomber is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2009, 10:09 AM
  #912
Lefte
 
Lefte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Grand Forks, ND
Posts: 270
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Seagull's

I just picked up my DA about 2 months ago. Anyone have a "newer" model? I noticed a couple of changes, One I have white spinners...

Lefte
Lefte is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2009, 10:16 AM
  #913
Yakflyer
 
Yakflyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Barnesville, GA
Posts: 191
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Seagull's

Be sure to trash the spinners and wheels and buy some good ones.
The wheels are too soft for the weight of the airplane and the spinners will be hard to balance properly.
Maybe your manual or the ARF has reinforced the nose gear bulkhead. If not, BE SURE to do so or you will have it collapse on anything but a perfect landing.
What size engines you plan on installing?
Yakflyer is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2009, 12:46 PM
  #914
Lefte
 
Lefte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Grand Forks, ND
Posts: 270
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Seagull's

I have two Evo 40's, brand new. I will be putting 12x6 blades, which should be plenty...The manual even has updated the CG to 105 to 110.

Lefte
Lefte is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2009, 12:48 PM
  #915
boingram
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Stockbridge, GA
Posts: 446
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Seagull's

...12X6 too much prop and you will also not have any ground clearance...go with 10x6 and use bigger wheels...Bo
boingram is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2009, 01:22 PM
  #916
Lefte
 
Lefte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Grand Forks, ND
Posts: 270
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Seagull's

Think the 40's will be big enough?
Lefte is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2009, 01:37 PM
  #917
boingram
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Stockbridge, GA
Posts: 446
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Seagull's

....absolutely...I have .46AX's and it's very fast....Bo
boingram is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2009, 05:14 PM
  #918
Sandmann_AU
 
Sandmann_AU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: BrisbaneQLD, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 648
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Seagull's


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Lefte

Think the 40's will be big enough?
I run a pair of Super Tigre 40's with 10x6APC props on mine. It doesn't leap off the ground, rather it requires a "scale" take off but once airborne it's plenty fast enough and has reasonable vertical. Go Dubro 2 1/2" wheels for the mains and a 2" for the nose.
Sandmann_AU is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2009, 07:14 AM
  #919
Matt-in-the-hat
 
Matt-in-the-hat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: St. CAtharines, ON, CANADA
Posts: 52
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Seagull's


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Lefte

I just picked up my DA about 2 months ago. Anyone have a ''newer'' model? I noticed a couple of changes, One I have white spinners...

Lefte
DA #2 arrived yesterday, I noticed the spinners were now white. (dosn;t matter as DA #1 had aluminum spinners that I will re-use) and the covering was WAY better than DA #1, the first looked like an 8 year old did the covering it was terrible. the wooden washers were also preinstalled in fuselage. However the Fuse was damaged. so Horizon is sending out a replacement. so will likely be a few weeks before DA #2 is ready to fly.
Matt-in-the-hat is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2009, 08:09 AM
  #920
Yakflyer
 
Yakflyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Barnesville, GA
Posts: 191
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Seagull's

Wow, sorry to hear it was damaged. Horrizon Hobbies has been good to me in the past when it came to defective/damages items in the past.
Glad to hear they are making it right.
Yakflyer is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2009, 07:39 PM
  #921
Lefte
 
Lefte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Grand Forks, ND
Posts: 270
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Seagull's

I Agree matt,
This newer DA is really different, not only the spinners, but the covering, the attachments...the corrected instructions.

Looks like they are listening to us...

Lefte
Lefte is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2009, 11:24 AM
  #922
dbkvn
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Wheat Ridge, CO
Posts: 64
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Seagull's

Hi there all, I have not read EVERY ONE of the post but do find it FULL of info...Have a DA that I am about to build...Ok, how to you put the 10 oz. tanks in, do I have to remove the side member braces in the nacelles...Does anyone remember which size Fults unit they used...I will be putting OS .55's on mine, I know; lots of power...But here in the Denver area one needs power, and besides there is that "throttle thing"...What about prop size suggestions and wheel sizes for "good" ground clearence...Many thanks in advance...Kevin in Denver
dbkvn is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2009, 07:22 AM
  #923
pc55bomber
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Newcastle, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 321
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Seagull's

Hi Guys

Couple of pics from todays session with the DA sporting its new colour scheme.
Cheers
Paul
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Ec89149.jpg
Views:	26
Size:	39.2 KB
ID:	1256471   Click image for larger version

Name:	Oj26191.jpg
Views:	24
Size:	38.9 KB
ID:	1256472  
pc55bomber is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2009, 12:07 PM
  #924
Yakflyer
 
Yakflyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Barnesville, GA
Posts: 191
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Seagull's

Very Nice!
Excellent photo! That must have taken a few passed to snap!
Yakflyer is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2009, 09:15 PM
  #925
pc55bomber
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Newcastle, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 321
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Seagull's

Thanks Yakflyer
My mate's other passion is photography as well as flying and he excels at it.
Took a few passes to get a good shot.
Really pleased with the DA flies great.
Cheers
Paul
pc55bomber is offline  
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 01:19 AM.