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  1. #76
    Blindsides's Avatar
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    RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"

    I am hoping to maiden mine on this Thursday. I ran in the new OS .46's really well to try and avoid the possible flame out or a dead stick landing. Hopefully my time spent and the three tanks of fuel I burnt through each engine will pay off! Good luck next weekend! I will let you know my results if the weather holds out!

  2. #77
    G-Pete's Avatar
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    RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"

    Jerry, from what I understand a tail heavy airplane has the tendencies to go down and a nose heavy plane goes up.
    I assumed you could not flair enough because of the way back CG. The elevator input is not much – low rates – I notice when I land I pull, right before the touchdown, the elevator full up. I try to image when you come in with one engine and already slow how much elevator you need to keep it from dropping to early.
    Yesterday I made my first rolls and loops. Also I tried high rate flying, which I was very pleased with the results.
    The dive test (35 degree and ΒΌ throttle) showed the plane try after 200 feet down to level out. This tells me the CG is just right for this sport flyer.
    I ordered Retracts yesterday, this plane will look so slick and even performs better, I changed the wheels to 3 inches to clear the props – 12x6 for two OS .60 – and three wheels this size create drag and turbulences.
    I hope you get your bird back up soon.

    The picture is a β€œphoto shop”, the upper is my dual ace the lover is the β€œmodified” copy…

    Happy landings[sm=thumbup.gif]
    G-Pete
    G-Pete
    Owner of WERK77 and Fritzdezings

  3. #78
    G-Pete's Avatar
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    RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"

    Finally the maiden video and pictures are up – just follow this LINK

    Happy landings[sm=thumbup.gif]
    G-Pete
    G-Pete
    Owner of WERK77 and Fritzdezings

  4. #79
    tailskid's Avatar
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    RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"

    Great Video G-Pete....I landed just a bit 'harder' than yours and suffered some 'retracts' Your tracked like mine - almost no trim needed and flew like'it as on rails' !

    Jerry
    # 93 in Club Saito; Carl Goldberg Ultimate Brotherhood # 12; Pulse brother # 2;Hellcat Brotherhood #8;P-47 Thunderbolt Brotherhood #18

  5. #80
    Blindsides's Avatar
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    RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"

    G-Pete,

    Where is your CG set at?

    Thanks!

  6. #81

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    RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"

    G-Pete

    Hopefully I'll get my Dual-Ace this week..I too will install retracts..Have a set of old 'Rhom-Airs',with 3/16" wire....Put new 'O' rings in them and using Robarts Retract valve, and they work great...Planning on using 2- 46, Evolution engines.....Hey Blindsides, how is the weather over there?..Not too bad here....like to see the wind go down where it's OK to fly...thumbs are getting itchy......Good thread here.....will balance at 95mm.....

  7. #82
    G-Pete's Avatar
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    RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"

    ORIGINAL: Blindsides
    G-Pete,
    Where is your CG set at?
    Thanks!
    Right at 85mm.
    If the CG is to far back your Plane will pitch downwards, sounds weird – I know – but that’s the law of physics. This pitch moment you don’t want in low speed especially at landing. Your wings will drop from one side to the other, with any correction of the ailerons you loose more airspeed. At the landing you should steer with the rudder to hold course and way less or none aileron input.
    At my video you see a little correction (cross wind) and then flair in with rudder and elevator. On the end of the run the plane hit a rock and the front wheel was kicked to the right. With my new 3 inch wheels this matter is solved.
    I like how she flies and how predictable she is, with the 0.60 engines I make a pretty good speed and I like a precise airplane in high and in slow speed.
    Here is a picture of the 90mm red line.

    Happy landings[sm=thumbup.gif]
    G-Pete
    G-Pete
    Owner of WERK77 and Fritzdezings

  8. #83
    G-Pete's Avatar
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    RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"

    ORIGINAL: Jimmy Bananas
    G-Pete
    Hopefully I'll get my Dual-Ace this week..I too will install retracts..Have a set of old 'Rhom-Airs',with 3/16" wire....Put new 'O' rings in them and using Robarts Retract valve, and they work great...Planning on using 2- 46, Evolution engines.....
    Mine are on order – should be in by Friday or Monday. What are you planning for the servo set up? Two servos, one for rudder and one for nose wheel or one servo with a pull/pull cable all the way back.
    I think I put another servo in the front so I have a short pull/pull and I can take some weight off.
    Yeah, retracts are the way to go!

    Happy landings[sm=thumbup.gif]
    G-Pete
    G-Pete
    Owner of WERK77 and Fritzdezings

  9. #84
    mu2driver's Avatar
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    RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"

    Hey guys, has anyone done the retract conversion yet, and if so can you share pictures...please...

    I got mine a few weeks back and and just loving it...

    I will install a gyro on the rudder and do in flight engine shut-downs...
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  10. #85

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    RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"

    Hi;See you are using the gyro!Have never tried one hear they are supposed to help control on engine loss!Have looked at them in tower catalog is that what you are using would like to try it too.Sure makes a nice looking plane!

  11. #86

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    RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"

    Still, No reports of any one having main gear problems after a bunch of landings. 11 pounds is not too lite. I've had one or two maple blocks crack open on other planes that weighed less. Has any one else installed a rear brace on the mains [ like I did ] to stiffen them up ?..... is any one even concerned ?..... MM PS, Which is best way to balance, right-side up or upside down ?

  12. #87
    dajensen's Avatar
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    RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"

    As this is a low wing aircraft I balanced mine inverted.

    P.S. I also used MACS pipes on my OS .46 SFs and from the side the exhausts look like turbo prop exhausts
    Even a BAD day at the field flying is better than a good day at work
    AMA 803699

  13. #88

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    RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"

    G-Pete:

    Got my bird a couple of days ago and will make some changes...Will put one rudder servo up front (for nose wheel streering) and try to move the servos up, right behind the wing tube...also fuel tanks will be 10 ozs, instead of 8 ozs....going with 3" Robart wheels,with foam inserts, on the mains..haven't decide on size of nose gear yet...just going to take my time on building this one...Have two other twins that need to be test flown yet,one is a KMP B-25,and the other is a XF5F-1 Skyrocket ( Hobby Hangar's Kit)...My main puter is down...Had Mediacom broadband installed Wed. and ran good for 7 hrs. and then went bananas....they won't be here to fix it until next Monday afternoon..typing this note on my spare outer..was going to sell it,but good thing I didn't..think I'll keep it...nuff said
    Anyway,back to the Daul Ace.....will try and install the retracts this week-end...............................Later

  14. #89
    G-Pete's Avatar
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    RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"

    I changed my fuel tanks too, The stock ones has 8oz, the Sullivan S728 10 oz they fit like a glove in there. It is a flex tank and work absolute in the mount. Without taking the mount apart you have no other choice.
    happy landings[sm=thumbup.gif]
    G-Pete

    G-Pete
    Owner of WERK77 and Fritzdezings

  15. #90
    tailskid's Avatar
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    RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"

    G-Pete, what is your building surface? (the gray one)?

    Jerry
    # 93 in Club Saito; Carl Goldberg Ultimate Brotherhood # 12; Pulse brother # 2;Hellcat Brotherhood #8;P-47 Thunderbolt Brotherhood #18

  16. #91
    CrashPro's Avatar
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    RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"

    Almost wish I hadn't started reading these Dual Ace threads.....you guys got me hooked......ordered mine yesterday.

    Question: ..anyone had any experience with GMS engines? I have a GMS .47 NIB and I'm wondering if this is a reliable/powerful enough engine to put a couple of these in this plane. Airplane should be here Wednesday or Thursday,really looking forward to getting it.

  17. #92
    tailskid's Avatar
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    RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"

    I'm not familiar with that particular engine, but if it produces the power of just an average .40, it will be enough!!!!
    # 93 in Club Saito; Carl Goldberg Ultimate Brotherhood # 12; Pulse brother # 2;Hellcat Brotherhood #8;P-47 Thunderbolt Brotherhood #18

  18. #93
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    RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"

    I have run GMS .47s on a twin and in singles. They are plenty powerful. As with all twin engines, don't tweak then for the last rpm or you'll be landing single engine. Use 11-5 props and they'll sing and the plane will be fast.

    The only knock I would have against them in inconsistent quality. As a single you wouldn't notice it, but in a twin you may have slightly mismatched engines. If you don't mind some rpm difference, maybe up to 500 rpm, that's OK. I flew a Twin Stick with a pair of them for a year. One engine was a little older and ran slightly less rpm than my OS .46AX's. The newer engine was right up there. If you are a nut about synching your engines, you'll drive yourself crazy with them unless you lucked out and get a good matched pair. If you don't bother like me, they'll be great.

    I ran tests for the column I write and have had engines 1000 rpm difference and have run 2 different size engines (TT .46Pro & TT .42GP) in a twin with no problems what so ever.

    I ran the front needle valves, by the way.
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    Ed Moorman, AMA 553, Former R/C Report Fun Aerobatics Columnist. 76 and up to my old tricks!

  19. #94
    Blindsides's Avatar
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    RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"

    I maidened mine today! It flew like it was on rails! I am using two OS 46 AX's that performed flawlessly. I have my CG set at between 90-95 mm with 9.5oz of lead in the nose, and would not change a thing. I used very little trim once the model was in the air. The only modification to the plane is two Pro-Spin 3" polished aluminum spinners.

    After two 6 minute flights I have decided to put in 10oz. tanks but that will be the only thing I change on the plane. Also, be sure that you put some CA on the back of the front engine nacelle screws, right behind the spinner. A couple of mine came loose.

    All I can say is I really love this model and would recommend it to anyone who wants a twin. It is fast, flies great, and looks great! [sm=thumbup.gif]

    If I could figure out how to insert pictures on here I would include a couple![&o]

  20. #95
    CrashPro's Avatar
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    RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"

    Thanks for the info on the GMS engines Ed. I'll go ahead and order another one....Can't wait to get started on this plane

  21. #96
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    RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"

    ORIGINAL: tailskid
    G-Pete, what is your building surface? (the gray one)?
    Jerry

    This is my first Seagull model and I was a little confused about this gray paint on the engine box. I another thread I asked about and the answer was to fuel proof this paint – which I did. I fuel proofed the entire box after gluing into the wing.

    ORIGINAL: Blindsides
    Also, be sure that you put some CA on the back of the front engine nacelle screws, right behind the spinner. A couple of mine came loose.
    All I can say is I really love this model and would recommend it to anyone who wants a twin. It is fast, flies great, and looks great! [sm=thumbup.gif]
    If I could figure out how to insert pictures on here I would include a couple![&o]
    I would recommend to put CA on any connection balsa/screws or ply/screws. Drill the hole apply the screw, back out the screw and put a drop or two of CA in the hole – wait until the CA is dry and mount your part.

    Here is how to post pictures ->Can I upload an image or attachment to my post?

    You may attach a file to your post. The allowed file format and the maximum file size will be displayed when you click on "Click here to upload".

    For graphical files (jpeg, gif, bmp, png), you can embed the uploaded picture in the post directly by checking the box: β€œEmbed picture in post”.

    Happy landings
    G-Pete
    G-Pete
    Owner of WERK77 and Fritzdezings

  22. #97
    dasintex's Avatar
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    RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"

    I keep reading about all the extra weight that is needed in the nose to get the CG correct; I am interested in getting this plane. To get more weight up front I thought about running 2 RCV 53CD 4 Strokes; these engines are heavier than most, at 18ozs each compared to about 13ozs for a OS 46AX. Has anyone else been running any 4 Strokes in these planes. Thanks Doug.
    P-40 Brotherhood #3
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  23. #98

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    RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"

    A Friend of mine is putting one of these together right now and we are questioning the need for "digital" servos as listed in the manual. Anyone know why they want digital servos or could it be something that came through when they translated the manual? It looks like a decent analog servo would be okay on all surfaces except maybe the rudder/nosewheel. What servos are you using?
    So far I have resisted the urge to get one for myself-( no room to store it, the hanger is FULL!)
    but I don't know how much longer I can hold out...

    AL.

  24. #99

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    RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"

    G-Pete:

    Tried to install the retracts I had...It's a no-go...too heavy with 3/16" wire..if you try it,use 5/32" wire....going to make new LG wire out of 5/32", with one loop in the wire....Now I'll go back and repair the damage I done on the right wing.....had to do alot of cutting of the wood (Ribs)....will balance the wing when it's done....should still be a great flying plane.......also will try to post pictures..you mention "Embed picture in post"..will try it and see what happens.......

  25. #100
    Ed_Moorman's Avatar
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    RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"

    The AX weight of 13 oz. is without a muffler. All of the .46-size engines will weigh between 16.5-17.7 ounces with muffler. I have personally weighed OS, Tower, Magnum, GMS, Thunder Tiger, Evo & Saito.

    The OS .46Ax's I own come in at 17.2 ounces on a digital scale. The heaviest is the Magnum .52XLS at 17.7 oz., but it has an extension in the muffler. The lightest is the GMS .47 with the stock (non-Tower type) muffler at 16.5 oz.
    Ed Moorman, AMA 553, Former R/C Report Fun Aerobatics Columnist. 76 and up to my old tricks!


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