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Old 07-30-2007, 07:36 AM
  #76  
twinman
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Default RE: Cedar Hobbies F7F Tigercat ARF

Hey Chilipecker
I am humbled at your Cowl. Are they really supposed to be that big? WOW. Ok I am behing in posting. Here is the picture of the 91 Four stroke hanging down. I would estimate around 3/4" hanging out, but will take picture tonight.
Later,
Twinman
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Old 07-30-2007, 07:45 AM
  #77  
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Default RE: Cedar Hobbies F7F Tigercat ARF

Nose gear installation.
I am using the Spring Air 105 degree nose and main gear. Due to the narrow front of the F7F, it might be possible to install a straight nose gear, but I would not advise it. I made..using a butane torch the enclosed nose wheel strut.
The steering wires from the servo to the nose wheel are enclosed in plastic due to other wiring and bulkheads in the direct line.
I would get out the expoxy and brush to reglue various joints in the nose..for that warm fuzzy feeling at night.
I used a 2" nose wheel, but there is lots of clearance for a larger wheel. You do need to move the front retract to the rear slightly so that the strut does not hit the front of the fuse without notching the fuse or "kink" the strut to make sure it goes forward for a better appearance.
I did end up putting a 1/4" block on each side of the retract so that the steering arm would have clearance to retract fully and not hit the beam..Notching the beam was considered..but dropped quickly..That supports the weight of the plane..No no.
Twinman
PS Now to get those pesky doors to close!!
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Old 07-30-2007, 08:14 AM
  #78  
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Default RE: Cedar Hobbies F7F Tigercat ARF

Cowl installation
As you can see, the cowl overlaps the front of the nacelle by around 2". Out comes the cutters and dremel. I also use servo mounting rubber grommets to insolate the vibration from the engine to the cowl. A little epoxy adds mounting tabs to the firewall. I used five per nacelle. You will also have to enlarge the opening for the engine snout in the front of the nacelle...kind of fake engine. Note E-flight P-47 nacelle has a plastic "Engine" of about this size that you could consider for more realistic appearance. If you go with larger nacelles as Chilipecker suggests, note the "engine" from the Hanger Nine Corsair might be about the right size.
I also did cut outs for the needle valve and added a quick fueler just behing the cylinder head on the bottom.
Twinman
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Old 07-30-2007, 08:47 AM
  #79  
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Default RE: Cedar Hobbies F7F Tigercat ARF

Twinman,

GREAT JOB! You are definitely farther along than me. One of the nice things about this model is that you really don't have to worry about correcting anything because it really is awesome looking right out of the box. Also, because of the innovative design for attaching the nacelles, you can always come back latter for any scale alterations. You are so close to being in the air now, I see no reason to stop.

I don't know how far you've gotten along with your nose gear doors, but if you haven't hinged them yet I have a suggestion that might save you some work and time.

If you look at photos of the full scale Tigercat's front gear you'll notice that it appears to angle out from under the nose with a distinctively forward stance. That's because the gear door is attached to the front of the gear leg it's self....and actually sticks out a bit farther at the bottom creating that forward raked look.

[img][/img]

You might want to consider this set up on your Tigercat. Should be simple to fabricate... Just hinge the gear cover to the fuse and attach it to your wire strut with a sliding collar. You can space the gear cover out from the collar so it sticks farther out at the bottom of your gear to simulate that distinctive look. Of course you'll have to work out the details of how far up the gear has to retract to make the cover flush, as well as creating a smaller opening into the gear bay. Just a thought!

I also have been searching options for cowl replacements. I'm now looking at the Great Planes Corsair cowl....A tad bit smaller than the standard .60 sized Corsair cowls available. I figured there would be less building up to do to the nacelles, plus the cost of about $10 each! Just need to confirm the diameter....
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Old 07-30-2007, 09:19 AM
  #80  
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Default RE: Cedar Hobbies F7F Tigercat ARF

Chilipecker
You know, the more I look at this, you are right, the nacelles are MUCH larger on the real one, but as you said, as the nacelles are individual units, they could be changed if you wanted to.
Actually I am only lacking getting the retract doors to close..but one problem on the field. Everyone has ideas on landing gear doors, so I will post mine..Unless you have some other brilliant idea..ha Ha
Twinman
PS Can you say Aircraft Carrier landing..Somehow I would like a few more options for the unexpected problems on a new plane than 2-12" water.
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Old 07-30-2007, 09:56 AM
  #81  
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Default RE: Cedar Hobbies F7F Tigercat ARF

HOLY GEEZ!!! Might ought to think of converting it to a Tigercatfish! Methinks you'll have plenty of time on your hands before that Field is usable.

Looking forward to seeing your take on the the gear doors. I noticed when I was first going over mine that none of the 3 gear wells had very flush fitting doors.... a shame because they seem to have a lot of work and good light construction in them.

Anyway, you know my goal for the nose bay. Since I plan to fatten up my nacelles, the included gear doors would have to be re-worked so I plan on making new ones with fiberglass. Very simple actually, I stole the idea from the Evo's Hangar website (www.homestead.com/evoshangar/home.html ). If you click on Thunderbolt at the right on his home page, he has photos of the process. I have used this method several times and it's simple...plus it produces very strong, lightweight doors!
Old 07-30-2007, 10:22 AM
  #82  
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Default RE: Cedar Hobbies F7F Tigercat ARF

One of the best photos I've seen to illustrate the proportional size of the cowls and nacelles is found in the book by Leary "U.S. Naval Fighters of WW ll". I also included another recent photo that shows the same....

This is about a 1/8 th scale Tigercat, so my reasoning is the cowl form a Top Flite, Hangar 9, Royal, etc. is for a 1/8 scale Corsair, so it should be almost dead on for correct scale size. Hopefully, the Great Planes Corsair will have a cowl only slightly smaller that will, for my purposes, achieve the desired look and for only 1/2 the price....
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Old 07-30-2007, 11:24 AM
  #83  
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Default RE: Cedar Hobbies F7F Tigercat ARF


Chilipecker
Uh...You decide to do that folding wing..Uh... let me know!!!
Twinman

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Old 07-31-2007, 07:27 AM
  #84  
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Default RE: Cedar Hobbies F7F Tigercat ARF

Chilipecker
You know,,in my over whelming concern for your happiness, and that bashing a kit is always a good thing, I know a guy who has one of the Hanger Nine Corsairs...Well, now he does not quit have the full airplane.
Note enclosed pictures just to keep you happy..Seriously. Standard Nacelles are 5.75" in diameter and the Corsair cowl is 7.75". You would have to lower the engine, but that is not a big deal. I, as previously posted raised mine, using preinstalled holes for inverted mount, but there is lots of room to move it more. There is plently of room in the landing gear area.
Keep us posted. Think I will pass this on to Ceder or you can as you progress.
Concerned for your happiness.
Twinman
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Old 07-31-2007, 07:39 AM
  #85  
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Default RE: Cedar Hobbies F7F Tigercat ARF

More modifications.
The kit comes with four allen bolts to hole the wings to the fuse. On the surface, great..In practice..not so great. Cannot get straight or ball joint allen wrench in to tighten due to sharp angle and narrow fuse.
My solution,,of to the hardware store..Four more hex head bolts and a ratchet end wrench.
Twinman
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Old 07-31-2007, 07:52 AM
  #86  
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Default RE: Cedar Hobbies F7F Tigercat ARF

Main Landing Gear Modifications.
I wanted more ground clearance than the kit or full size plane offered, for those uh..Hard landings...that...Uh "someone else" might do!! Ha Ha
My solution is to get from Spring Air http://www.retracts.com/ their 102HD F7F retracts with 105 degree rotation on all three gear. This gives the nose gear the forward rake and allows me to space the main gear around 1.25" low in the wheel wells and still close the doors.
I make the enclosed spacer and you can see the installation and the Gear in the down positon that is straight up and down.
My two cents.
Twinman
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Old 07-31-2007, 08:49 AM
  #87  
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Default RE: Cedar Hobbies F7F Tigercat ARF

Twinman!
I'm touched you're concerned for my happiness... seeing the big cowl in your hand gave me that warm fuzzy feeling. Now I know I'm bringing you around to the Dark Side.... BARF's RULE!!!! (Bashed ARF = BARF in case you were wondering)

I looked at the Spring Air website but could find any info on the 102HD F7F??? I asked about it, but they never replied. What's the difference between a set of 102HD and a set of 102HD F7F????? Are all the 102HD F7F units set at 105???

I peeled the covering of my nacelles and tried to figure out how to re-shape them. Only needs filler from the firewall tapering back to end of the wheel bays, so I'm thinking I'll scab on a new firewall to mount the big cowl to, then run balsa stringers over the nacelles, taper them to shape, then sheet it. Found a set of old Top Flite Bearcat cowls (exact same one as the old TF Corsair, and maybe the new Gold Edition Corsair). I'll post the photos when I get started.

Please don't forget to give us the weight yours comes in at.....You GO, Twinman, you're on fire!!!!
Old 07-31-2007, 09:16 AM
  #88  
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Default RE: Cedar Hobbies F7F Tigercat ARF

BARF"S RULE????!!! Wow....10 POINTS!!! I am unworthy.
Call Bill at Spring Air 321-728-9002. The part number I used is one he assigned and yes, it will be 105 degrees on all, but if you are not happy with that...I am sure he can fix you up. He only answers Email at night.
Ok Ok...your killing me!!! Behind in posts..but the plane is ready to fly as of last night.
Dry weight is 14lbs. 3 OZ. Note, it WILL end up tail heavy with the engines I used,, Around 6 oz lead in the nose.
I am SOOOOO happy about your warm fuzzies!!
Twinman
Old 07-31-2007, 11:52 AM
  #89  
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Default RE: Cedar Hobbies F7F Tigercat ARF

Landing Gear Doors.
Now, before I start, yes, there are MANY ways to make the landing gear doors open and close. Air cylinders, servos, linkage, rubber bands..and much more.
What I am showing is a cheap and easy way that works for me over quite a few planes.
About all I do is head to my local Ace Hardware and snoop through the spring drawers for a fairly stiff spring around 3/16" in diameter.
Install approximately 1" posts on to the doors themselves with SQUARE ENDS angled sliightly up. The square ends are important. When I drill a 1/16" holes it is positioned so that the spring across the doors is forced downward, which forces the doors open. The square edges hold the spring in that postion.
When the landing gear comes down, it hits the spring and closes the doors. The springs allow over travel. I have seen the basic same thing with rubber bands, but Murphy's law says they will break at the wrong time.
Works for me.
Good Luck,
Twinman
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Old 08-09-2007, 01:38 PM
  #90  
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Default RE: Cedar Hobbies F7F Tigercat ARF

Flight day..Ok OK,,so I am late,,job gets in the way.
14# 3oz dry weight, CG 4.5" back from leading edge along the fuse.
Master Air Screw 14x8 three blades at 9400 RPM. ASP four strokes.
Naturally one engine is not idling correctly and the cowls are in place. Runs slower than the other at low speed. DO AS I SAY, but not as I do...1/4 Throttle and down one engine dies..No problem..vertical test good, helper holding the plane at 1/4 throttle one half flaps. Let it go and power up!!
I really was amazed at how well it tracked, climb out strong, some aileron trim adjustment and away we go. The following is on the first flight after triming.
Ok,,inverted flight, needs around 1/4 down to hold it. Roll rate is..uh...not 3D stuff, but with good throws around 30-40 RPM. Knift edge..forget it!! Now the loop...Accidently pulled a really tight loop,,much more than I should have......No snap roll!! None.
No, I did chicken out and did not raise the landing gear. Needed to add small plate inside the main doors so that the wheels do not catch on it, locking them up..Why does this not show up on the work bench!!
Hands shaking...DO YOU THINK ANY OF MY BUDDIES will step in there???? No way...something about a cross hatch pattern of the field and who gets the parts if it does down in your parcel...Low life's!!
Ok,,now it is up...got to land...hands shaking again!! No help from the peanut gallery, but betting is now at fever pitch!!
Screams of "DON'T CHOKE are not proper field edicate!!!
One half flaps..slowing down,,,little more power..floats much more than expected..few up and down manuvers due to what I guess is light loading. Greased it to a good landing and now really shaking.
No, the video camera batteries died.
Mmmmmooooorrrrrrreeeeee this weekend.
I am going to try to move the CG forward a bit. as a trial due to floatiness, and will post results.
Twinman
(PS Anyone have a trainer????...single engine????)
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Old 08-11-2007, 09:14 PM
  #91  
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Default RE: Cedar Hobbies F7F Tigercat ARF

Split flaps on a Tigercat????
Old 08-12-2007, 08:09 AM
  #92  
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Default RE: Cedar Hobbies F7F Tigercat ARF

Wow looks great...espically for a "sport" twin and sounds like a failrly "low stress" twin to fly. If I'm not mistaken, it also looks like this plane with retracts is about half the price of the KMP one. Thanks for the great review Twinman!!
Old 08-12-2007, 05:39 PM
  #93  
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Default RE: Cedar Hobbies F7F Tigercat ARF

Thank you everyone for giving so much info. and thank you Twinman for the Photo's. now I know this is not the Tigercat for me!
Old 08-12-2007, 06:18 PM
  #94  
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Default RE: Cedar Hobbies F7F Tigercat ARF

Me too. ASM (Hobby People) has one coming at the end of the year. I'll wait for that one.

Jim
Old 08-14-2007, 08:01 PM
  #95  
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Default RE: Cedar Hobbies F7F Tigercat ARF

Ok, more flights this last weekend. I have moved the CG to approximately the front spar or up around 3/4" and the landing is completely different. With full flaps, it just glides in.
As for the comments on scale details, points well taken and no arguement. Just reporting on my observations. I still think it is a deal on the price!!
I ususally do not fly four strokes...more of a tear the sky up with screaming ST 90's, but the sound of two four strokes...WOW!
Twinman..
PS Still do not have the landing gear doors working to my satisfaction.,,but am picky.
Old 08-15-2007, 06:59 AM
  #96  
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Default RE: Cedar Hobbies F7F Tigercat ARF

Hay Twinman,

Here's your big ol Atta Boy!!!!

Great job on your build and review!!! I think anyone interested in this plane now knows what to expect as you have shown your build, pointed out some of the scale flaws, and reported on the flight charateristics...without bias. Just so happens that your conclusion this a deal for the price is one that I also believe is true.

Looking forward to seeing and hearing more!
Old 08-22-2007, 08:39 AM
  #97  
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Default RE: Cedar Hobbies F7F Tigercat ARF

Hay Twinman,
Was wondering if you've flown it anymore? Also, would you tell us if you had to add weight to the nose or tail to balance it?
Old 08-22-2007, 05:22 PM
  #98  
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Default RE: Cedar Hobbies F7F Tigercat ARF

Yes, as a matter of fact I did have it up again this last weekend. Yes, I did add nose weight to balance it. Now the instuctions say to balance around 4.5 " back from the leading edge along the fuse. The first flight was there, but I thought the landing seemed a little Touchy. Moved the balance JUST barely forward of the first dihedral brace or around 4" and completely different landing characteristics. With full flaps it now just eases in like slightly heavy trainer.
Still not happy with the landing gear door operation, so will work on that some more. The doors are so far apart, the springs do not completely close them.
With four stroke 91's you will need to add nose weight.
Roll rate.around one per second, inverted..need around 1/3 down to maintain level flight..but I also have a lot of throw and exponential, Knife edge..Uh...forget it!!
Loops can be MUCH tighter than I expected and no tip stall..None. No stall tendencies on landing or high in the air..Interesting.
NO, I AM NOT going to deliberately try engine out!! NO..,but it may be Ok as the rudder is very effective..Ok OK,,I do have it set for almost max throw...Just in case.
Hope to head out again this weekend. Rats..with wing on...cannot get it into the Suburban in one piece,,but with one wing off,,no problem!!!
Oh, yes,,in Houston at 95 degree and direct sun the covering did begin to wrinkle, but seems I hear this a lot on others too..COME ON WINTER!!
Twinman
Old 08-23-2007, 10:56 AM
  #99  
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Default RE: Cedar Hobbies F7F Tigercat ARF

No such thing as winter in Houston.
Old 08-23-2007, 09:39 PM
  #100  
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Default RE: Cedar Hobbies F7F Tigercat ARF

What do you mean.."No winter in Houston"??? Got 32F for TWO WHOLE HOURS TWICE LAST WINTER...Had to wait for two hours just to fly in those artic conditions!!!!...In Heated Club House!!
Whine Whimper!!
Twinman


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