twinman

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IRON Eagle Dared me.............."Come on twinman, that is too cool not to do! "
Consider the dare taken!!

twinman

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Seeing is believing.

twinman

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More views and Yes, the peanut gallery was out in full force trying to get this to work or just to have a good laugh.

twinman

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FLIGHT DAY..Yes, that is also a Gater in the pond we are using..Gives pause if there is an engine problem???!!!!
Twinman

twinman

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The take off run..Unfortunately this is as far or as high as it got..Stuck like glue to the water!!!!!!!!
ANY IDEAS????????
Twinman

iron eagel

Wow, you did it, that is indeed cool.

Yea that's it blame me. You have to admit the concept was an interesting one.

Hmm as far as the take off.... More power? Looks like you got it up on the step and not enough grunt to break off the surface...
how much weight did the floats add? I am just curious...
BTW it did look so cool skimming across the water.
But what do I know I liked the five engine fort...

William Robison

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George:

Do you have a step in the bottom of the floats, or are they flat bottomed? The step serves to lift the after part of the floats out of the water, greatly decreasing the drag.

Even with a step, the hardest take off of a float plane is on calm water. An old seaplane driver’s trick is some high speed taxiing to make a rough surface, then make the run directly over the waves. The ripples tend to bounce the plane and let it get up on the step. Then with the decreased water drag the plane will accelerate and take flight.

Just some thoughts.

Bill.

twinman

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Yeah Iron..YOUR FAULT I am in this mess.
Bill, the floats are approximately 30 inches long and four inches wide. The step is one inch tall at exactly the CG of the whole mess. As for as weight, well, yes, they are probably 1.5 pounds..Not my floats..no cost and made of foam. One of the guys at the field talked about giving it Down elevator to "ROCK" it up,,no guts...That allegator was REAL!! The plane is positive 2 degrees incidence. I have posted this at the float forum..might as well have more people in on the silliness.
Twinman
PS I do worry that the wings just are not large enough to lift this. I was really going fast in these pictures, but would not go any faster!!

William Robison

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[b]George:

He was right about rocking the plane with the elevator. A pound and a half is a lot of added load, granted.

You're either going to have to wait for a rough surface, or screw up your courage and do the "Elevator rock."

The gator? Remember what they say, "No guts, no gore." Uh, or was that "Glory?"

Haw.

Bill.

twinman

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The gator? Remember what they say, "No guts, no gore." Uh, or was that "Glory?"

Thanks for the vote of confidence..Yeah, "not my body in that lake!!"

William Robison

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George:

From the picture Albert Alligator couldn't be more than six feet long. Or do you think his mama might be there too?

But why are you flying float planes without a rescue boat?

Bill.

twinman

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Lake four feet deep at deepest location. Can walk out there...or could have without the newest wildlife addition!!

William Robison

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George!!

Just put your waders on. Do be sure you're not dripping any blood, though.

Haw.

Or let Terror Dactyl get the plane.

Haw again.

Bill.

eagledancer

ah if that ol' gator comes near just make a pair of boots outta him!

twinman

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Bill, Eagledancer
You concern for my legs is really not giving me confidence.
Twinman
PS Weight is 8.5 pounds with floats.

TLH101

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your wing loading is "only" 50oz. Should fly as well as any brick.

Terror Dactyl

TD dont do windows so to speak.

I did taxi it back from one of the failed takeoff runs and saw that the rudder linkage is loosing effectivness as the speed goes up.

The linkage should be rerouted to make it more capable of steering under load, since it was almost unable to offset torque during takeoff runs.

It was cool to watch motoring across the pond and the gator was about three feet long.

eagledancer

from what i can see from your first pics, your not getting up on plane meaning you need to get the nose down to break loose the rear of the floats, once up on plane then a tough of up should get you airborne, or you could bounce it off the back of the gator to get off

twinman

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"or you could bounce it off the back of the gator to get off " Don't think we did not consider that!!. We tried desparately to get a picture of the gater near the plane, but he kept going down. We wondered what a gator attack on a float plane would look like..Not my plane!!
The guys up in the float forum has a bunch of stuff to check too..may have to take this seriously..gator or no!!
Twinman

iron eagel

George,
I was going to recomend a lower pitch prop also, but I see that was already mentioned on the float page.
Now what was this about a five engine B-17 on floats????
Good luck.

Paul

JAkridge

Twinman, I was reading your post in seaplane section and thought I'd drop by here. It's the floats no doubt about it. To Big, to Long, to Much drag in the shape and in the spreaders too. I know it was more of a dare play thing but it will be a bear if it does break water. Try a little reshapeing, shorting the front, and use some K & B streamline tubeing for spreaders if you have any.
The super flat pond isn't helping any either, a few small wakes help break suction (ie. rocking the plane out).

Still a cool looking little project. I'll check back.

JAkridge

You know what Twinman, after looking at your pics again, it looks like it's ready to pull off. For the what it's worth file, 2 things to check. the step to CG needs to move back, I know, I know, they say step rite under the CG (or max of 1/4 back) but I have found that doesn't alway fly.... no haha intended. If I'm seeing things rite, it's setting on the back of the floats and won't rotate anymore. So back to the 2 things........ try moving the step to... say a 1/2" to 3/4" back of CG, and don't force it. That was one of my hardest learned things while float flying, Proper elevator movement, when and when not to. I don't need to tell you, thats for damm sure.
There's a difference I found from my wheel planes and float rigs. If I got power or not, i can yank a wheel plane off the deck, it either tips and go's in or pure power makes it fly. With float planes, it tips and crashes or it gets all squirly and runs around the Lake like a wild animal, "OR" it just runs around the Lake like a RC car. Once the proper CG-STEP & ELEVATOR movement is applyed. Wala your rock'en and a roll'en.

And I hope you at least have a fishing pole with a tennis ball tied to the end. I for one wouldn't go out and shake up Mr. Gator in my BVD's

Terror Dactyl

There was one subject that was not dared to be asked about yesterday morning and that was who would be getting wet to retrieve the radio and engine.

I know that luck wont hold out for ever, but I bet that a boat or some other retrieval device will not be there the next time either.

twinman

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You know, I am begining to think you are right about the floats. They were a free home made set. They look too long as I made them longer with a non floating tip to cut water being thrown up into the props. What about the flat bottom verses the V shape I see on most floats. Would that have helped??
I really was surprised the similarity of feel between a converted single trainer four years ago on floats and this thing, Really not too much difference..at least these engines came up together and had equal speed and thrust...until the water spray hits only one!!
Thanks again,
Twinman
PS Mr Dactyl..uh..did you not get the memo?? YOU WERE ELECTED to go after is if there was a problem!!

Paul Grubich

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I know what is wrong. The floats are on the bottom of the plane, put them on the top and take off upside down