Twin & Multi Engine RC Aircraft Discuss the ins & outs of building & flying multi engine rc aircraft here.

Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **

Reply
Old 10-03-2006, 03:24 PM
  #76
wayneparrish
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: apex, NC
Posts: 142
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **

Bill, Can the auto engine-- to idle feature be overidden ? I fly some from a fairly tight strip and if I have an engine out on takeoff and have to deal with the other engine going sour at maybe 20 ft altitude ,it could get hairy. My Zirolli C-47 does not have the "over the top" problem that a/c like the P-38 has. Thanks, Wayne
wayneparrish is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2006, 05:50 PM
  #77
a1pcfixer
 
a1pcfixer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: La Porte, IN
Posts: 2,505
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **


Quote:
ORIGINAL: wayneparrish

if I have an engine out on takeoff and have to deal with the other engine going sour at maybe 20 ft altitude ,it could get hairy.
My TwinStar liked doing that, and I just set the TwinSync up so the glow drivers were ON -or- OFF via my gear switch on the Tx. I'd turn them ON, fire up the engines, take off, and after about a minute, turn the glow drivers OFF.

Try that, set as manual & see if it might help you.
a1pcfixer is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2006, 07:49 PM
  #78
wayneparrish
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: apex, NC
Posts: 142
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **

I don't have glow engies so I don't follow your reasoning ? Wayne
wayneparrish is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2006, 01:48 AM
  #79
a1pcfixer
 
a1pcfixer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: La Porte, IN
Posts: 2,505
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **


Quote:
ORIGINAL: wayneparrish

I don't have glow engies so I don't follow your reasoning ? Wayne
Well, generally neither gas engines nor electric would have your issue so I figured you must be running 2c or 4c.
For 2c or 4c, keeping the glow drivers on thru takeoff would greatly diminish any chance of flameout during those critical moments.
a1pcfixer is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2006, 07:42 AM
  #80
yl5295
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 551
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **

There is no way to disable the dead stick idling the other engine as shipped. There is an option for turning the engine synchronizer off completely via an aux channel. Disabling the unit makes it the same as a "Y" cable which is effectively the same thing that I think you are asking for. I am open to adding an option for this in future software but there is a problem with the concept.

The unit will syncronize the engines. If one engine slows down it will pull the other one back. So even if I disabled the deadstick detection is would still pull back the good engine (slower than a deadstick though) to idle. So I don't see a way to sync the engines for take-off but disable the dead stick if one died.

One of the advantages of the unit is reducing the yaw effect of a failing engine. So if you have an airplane that could still climb out on one engine I think that sync disable via a toggle on an aux channel is probably the best but if you want a sync only when both running (i.e. otherwise throttles stay at stik position) we can discuss.

I think that the worst scenario would be if taking off from right to left and the left engine died as the plane went by the pits. This would try to yaw the airplane into the pits. The TwinSync would greatly reduce the risk of this example as it is currently. I think even a big stable gasser might be a handful just after takeoff on one engine at full power.

However, I can add a mode (there are still 3 modes that are not assigned) that will sync the engines only if both are running and otherwise moves the servos to the throttle stick position - completely disabling all of the failsafes. Let me know if you want this mode added. Would you want an AUX channel to add any other functionality to this mode?

Bill
yl5295 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2006, 08:37 AM
  #81
wayneparrish
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: apex, NC
Posts: 142
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **

Bill, I'll get with you on this. Wayne
wayneparrish is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2006, 09:51 AM
  #82
yl5295
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 551
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **

BUG!!!!
NEW GLOW DRIVER BUG FOUND!
YES - Someone just found a new BUG (although minor or of no concern to most)!!!

1) The glow drivers come on in all modes except mode 5 (when plugs are controlled by an AUX CHannel) when RPM is sensed. They are supposed to come on for 10 seconds. They only stay on for 3.3 seconds. This will be updated back to 10 seconds in current software. No a big deal if using an electric starter but a problem for the guys that flip start.

OBSERVATION: Weak glow plug driver strength...

A few units have been observed to have a weak drive on the glow plug. This can be observed by comparing how bright the glow plugs are directly connected to the battery versus through the glow plug drivers on the TwinSync.

The reason is that there is a resistor (R3) that protects the TwinSync from damage should someone try to charge the glow plug batteries while they are connected to the TwinSync (NO ONE SHOULD EVER DO THIS AS IT MAY DESTROY THE TWINSYNC).

Depending on the value of this resistor it can limit the drive strength of the glow plug driver circuit. Manufacturing tolerances have caused some to be a little weak in the plug heat department.

If you want - you can remove/short out this (R3) resistor if you want to have "full heat" going to the plugs. BUT--- The device will have no protection then against overvoltage on the glow plug wires after that. So only 1 NiCD or 1 NiMh cell per driver circuit if you do this mod. I will be lowering the value of this resistor on all new units that ship or comeback for any reason.

Attached below is a diagram of which resistor to short out (solder a wire between the two leads) if you want to do this. (no it will not void your warranty - unless you completely destroy the unit then I will replace it at a minimal fee). Also attached is a picture of a wire soldered between the two legs on the back of the board showing the mod. The arrows point to each end where the wire is attached.

This is not something you have to do but just may WANT to do if you have weak plug heat.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Om34130.jpg
Views:	19
Size:	39.7 KB
ID:	535668   Click image for larger version

Name:	Dy77807.jpg
Views:	11
Size:	33.2 KB
ID:	535669  
yl5295 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2006, 09:40 PM
  #83
a1pcfixer
 
a1pcfixer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: La Porte, IN
Posts: 2,505
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **


Quote:
ORIGINAL: yl5295

BUG!!!!
NEW GLOW DRIVER BUG FOUND!
YES - Someone just found a new BUG (although minor or of no concern to most)!!!

OBSERVATION: Weak glow plug driver strength...

A few units have been observed to have a weak drive on the glow plug. This can be observed by comparing how bright the glow plugs are directly connected to the battery versus through the glow plug drivers on the TwinSync.
Well, shoot, I reported this issue back on Post #39 on 9/15/06 [page 2 of this thread]

Quote:
ORIGINAL: a1pcfixer

On board glow isn't giving enough juice to start engines. I'm running 2 Sanyo 1700 mAH in parallel,
and yes they were fully charged. I'll figure out this issue, but the above issue needs your assistance.
Will mine be updated for this, or had you shipped it back before finding/fixing this bug?
a1pcfixer is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2006, 06:49 AM
  #84
yl5295
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 551
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **

Yours (as all that come back) will be updated before shipped back. The resistors will be replaced with more accurate 1% resistors with a better value to give full power and still protect the device.

Sorry about your post #39 but it wasn't clear that you had found an issue and needed help. Since you stated that you would figure it out.
yl5295 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2006, 08:08 AM
  #85
yl5295
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 551
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **

All,

as for the above modification. Please contact me at billw@nc.rr.com before making the mod if you have weak glow heat. MOST PEOPLE DO NOT NEED a change. Only a few units have weak plug heat. The glow plug drivers were tested on all of the shipped units and they were working well enough to pass a visual (i.e. is the plug bright?) test. Try yours before assuming that you may need this modification because chances are that you do not.
yl5295 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2006, 10:50 AM
  #86
yl5295
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 551
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **

All,

pending final testing this weekend software version 1.4 and an updated manual are now available. Earlier versions of the software is still fine for using/flying (no big problems found - only minor stuff). Anyway here are the updates/changes in version 1.4:

1) Added new throttle control algorithm to eliminate oscillations at all RPM ranges, faster tracking of engine RPM in the event of engine problems, and faster dead stick response time.
2) New Mode 6 added to disable dead stick function
3) Glow plug battery voltage detects low battery now at 1.0V rather than 1.2V
4) RPM now must be >1500 rpm synchronize (was >0 rpm previously)
5) Runs glowplugs now for 10 seconds after RPM sensed (was 3 seconds)
6) Programmed idle point is now where throttles are moved with loss of transmitter signal (was previously KILL)
7) PCM lockout capability now expanded to support frame rates as low as 25 fps (now works with Multiplex Radios)
8) Glow plugs can not come on now when transmitter is turned off
9) Programmable for use with one or two magnets (contact tech support for info)
10) Programmable Sync accuracy (contact tech support for info)
11) Remote display is now enabled by default and remote glow led is disabled

All units shipping from RCS will all have this new 1.4 version of software. All chips/units returned (that you have not gotten back yet) will get this new version. Make sure to only use the manual that matches the version of software that your device has. I don't expect any updates in the near future for the Twinsync after this release of software (i.e. this should be the last one for a while).

Bill
yl5295 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2006, 02:07 PM
  #87
yl5295
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 551
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **

An update to everyone:

RCShowcases next batch of inventory shipped today including Remote displays, and TwinSyncs with and with out glow drivers (no reason for gas guys to have to buy glow drivers). They had software version 1.4.1 on them.

Also today I shipped all units and chips that had comeback to me for software upgrades with 1.4.1 software on them.

Software version 1.4.1 is the same as version 1.4 described above but adds one thing. It requires an engine to be at >1500 rpm for 0.5 seconds before it declares that the engine is running. The reason for this is the following:

Say an engine dies while flying and it idles the other. You get control of the plane and bring the stick back to idle and throttle up the running engine. If the dead engine's prop spins or vibrates in front of the sensor before this change it could declare both engines running and try to sync them. Then when no rpm is sensed on the dead engine it would idle the running engine again. This latest change prevents the unit from idling a running engine under stick control after a deadstick unless it spins at >1500 rpm for >1/2 a second.

Bill
yl5295 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2006, 11:35 AM
  #88
Acetronics
 
Acetronics's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: NESLE nse, FRANCE, METROPOLITAN
Posts: 57
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **

Hi, Bill

I just have a little question : my Twinsync was to be shipped those days ... how to know the Soft release ??? a sticker somewhere ???

Will you update THE manual too ???

Thanks

Alain
Acetronics is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2006, 01:25 PM
  #89
yl5295
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 551
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **

If you placed an order with RCS and have not received your unit yet it will come with 1.4.1. If you already have your unit it is 1.2.X unless you have gotten an update.
yl5295 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2006, 05:21 PM
  #90
a1pcfixer
 
a1pcfixer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: La Porte, IN
Posts: 2,505
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **


Quote:
ORIGINAL: yl5295
Also today I shipped all units and chips that had comeback to me for software upgrades with 1.4.1 software on them.
Bill
Just got mine back, and that remote display is cute & compact. Good job!

With the updates you did to mine, should I figure I'm starting with a new unit (ie, my settings/tweaks are now back to stock)?

Also; will RC Showcase or you, be posting the updated Owners Guide soon for version 1.4.1?
a1pcfixer is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2006, 06:30 PM
  #91
yl5295
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 551
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **

I will email it to you....

Please send me an email so I can reply to it with the manual attached at billw@nc.rr.com.

I am talking to them now about one other potential change (no functional difference - just something to help with customer support) that may result in them posting a 1.4.2 rather than a 1.4.1 manual. You will need the manual that matches your unit though.
yl5295 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2006, 01:15 AM
  #92
a1pcfixer
 
a1pcfixer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: La Porte, IN
Posts: 2,505
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **

Bill,

e-mail address on it's way.

With the updates you did to mine, should I figure I'm starting with a new unit (ie, my settings/tweaks are now back to stock)?
a1pcfixer is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2006, 09:17 AM
  #93
yl5295
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 551
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **

All settings are back to "stock" or factory defaults.
yl5295 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2006, 09:38 PM
  #94
UkerDuker
 
UkerDuker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Hendersonville, TN
Posts: 924
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **

yl5295

I got my Twinsync unit today. I have been reading though the installation sheets. This is really nice. I did have one question. I'm glad I got the optional glow. How are people mounting this? Are you making all the connections then wrapping it in foam? I had a thought that it would be nice to have 4 tabs extending from the main board with pre-drilled holes for mounting.

Overall, I cant wait to get my plane done and running.

Mike
UkerDuker is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2006, 01:40 AM
  #95
a1pcfixer
 
a1pcfixer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: La Porte, IN
Posts: 2,505
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **


Quote:
ORIGINAL: UkerDuker

yl5295

How are people mounting this? Are you making all the connections then wrapping it in foam? I had a thought that it would be nice to have 4 tabs extending from the main board with pre-drilled holes for mounting.

Mike
Once everything is connected to it, you'll be lucky just to wrap it with foam. I'm thinking of shrink-wrapping mine, then wrapping in foam.
With 7 wires coming off my Twin Sync mounted (stuffed) in a Hobbico TwinStar (basically a twin engine trainer style fusealage) there's nowhere it can go.

My TwinStar is the test bed for this Twin Synch. Later it goes into a NitroPlanes P-38 (giant scale). THEN, I'll have more opportunity to attempt mounting the Twin Synch in a fuse.

WHATEVER you wrap it in, be CERTAIN the material is NON-conductive!
Woudn't want all that exposed circuitry underneath to short-out!
a1pcfixer is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2006, 01:03 AM
  #96
goodinmw
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Kaneohe, HI
Posts: 59
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **

Aloha All,
I've got an OV-10 with a pair of OS MAX 61FXs, 3-Bladed props and spinners. With respect to mounting of the magnets- I was wondering if anyone has attempted to mount the magnets to the Engine drive hub rather than the spinner. What I was going to try unless someone had some good advice otherwise, was to use heat shrink tubing over the magnet around the drive hub. Then mount the transducer accordingly.
Thought there might be less problems when removing and replacing props and spinners.
Thoughts?
Mahalo,
Mark
goodinmw is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2006, 08:44 AM
  #97
yl5295
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 551
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **

Mark,

I have some diametric magnets that are 1/8" (diameter) x 1/4" long for mounting in the prop hub. For these you drill a 1/8" hole parallel with the crankshaft in the front of the prop hub. The poles are diametric rather than radial (north and south on on the sides rather than the ends). So you rotate the magnets in the hole until it faces the correct position and then expoxy it in. Guys are using these with no problems. $2.50 per pair. With these no spinner mounted magnet required.

Bill
yl5295 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2006, 09:26 AM
  #98
Blade47
 
Blade47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Whitehorse, YT, CANADA
Posts: 1,216
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **

Hmmm OK ...I like the idea of putting the magnets in the hub ..makes for lot more options to mount the censer and setting the gap. Question .... will the magnets that ship with the unit not work in the same fashion only side mount them on the Hub instead of the back of the spinner????
Blade47 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2006, 10:08 AM
  #99
Acetronics
 
Acetronics's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: NESLE nse, FRANCE, METROPOLITAN
Posts: 57
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **

Hi, Blade

On Gas engines, the ignition magnets can sometimes be inserted radially in a hole of the hub with the help of an hydraulic press ...

May be Bill could give an advice about using the ignition magnets ... also for Twinsync !!!



But, for glow engines that need machine tools !!! ( may-be a solution with a collar, bolt-on around the hub ) ... if possible !!!

See Nelson Hobby site or Webra ( spark II ) site for ideas ... also here http://www.mueller-modellbau-technik.de/ ( click on BILDER )

I really do not believe gluing them ( methanol or gasoline long term compatibility w/ glues ??? ) or wrapping into thermo-schrinkable is a safe practice ...

Alain
Acetronics is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2006, 06:06 PM
  #100
yl5295
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 551
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **

You are welcome to try things but here are my opinions:

Gluing standard (included) magnets into prop hub? - bad idea. Needs to be pressed.
Heat shrink to hold magnet? Bad idea.

Using flywheel magnets that magneto uses. It is possible. I looked at a couple of magneto engines I have. I have a poulan that would probably work because it has two magnets with one facing north and one south. I am told Zenoah have three magnets. As long as you mount the sensor so only one magnet causes the green led to flash you should be ok. Spark noise can get into the sensor wires so be careful with gas especially trying to use flywheel magnets. Ranging test will be the key factor here.
yl5295 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 07:07 AM.